Obtainium, do they still make springs?
- Thread starter Christiaan
- Start date
As above.
Good Ti springs (the brands I listed) offer a very substantial saving over steel springs, and from what I've seen of my personal springs tested on the dyno, they are very accurate in rate as well.
These "new wave" brands on the other hand (TI-springs.com, sprungloaded, TFT, and seemingly Obtainium.ca) are heavier, in most cases substantially so - as per the example above. Sure they're cheap but you get what you pay for. Obtainium.ca told me they have a +/-10% variance in weight, which is completely ridiculous. I actually got the drift that the guy had no idea what he was talking about.
Unfortunately no one seems to make the good ones anymore, except possibly springtime.vg / Kronos, who I suspect are the same OEM that did DSP. They are however quite expensive. I've just been snapping up Progressive/DSP/Obtainium(original) branded ones as I require them, and keeping them for future use.
Good Ti springs (the brands I listed) offer a very substantial saving over steel springs, and from what I've seen of my personal springs tested on the dyno, they are very accurate in rate as well.
These "new wave" brands on the other hand (TI-springs.com, sprungloaded, TFT, and seemingly Obtainium.ca) are heavier, in most cases substantially so - as per the example above. Sure they're cheap but you get what you pay for. Obtainium.ca told me they have a +/-10% variance in weight, which is completely ridiculous. I actually got the drift that the guy had no idea what he was talking about.
Unfortunately no one seems to make the good ones anymore, except possibly springtime.vg / Kronos, who I suspect are the same OEM that did DSP. They are however quite expensive. I've just been snapping up Progressive/DSP/Obtainium(original) branded ones as I require them, and keeping them for future use.
According to the Kronos site, the prices aren't much higher than Obtanium's.
There was a huge difference (relatively speaking) between the Fox steel spring, and the TFTuned TI spring I bought. For the price I paid it was a no brainer.
Can't remember the exact number, but it was quite a bit over 200 grams I saved. If it was out, well then it made no difference in the amount of sag, as I measured it with both the steel and TI springs (the TI might have had one turn more of pre-load, which again is fine by me)
Can't remember the exact number, but it was quite a bit over 200 grams I saved. If it was out, well then it made no difference in the amount of sag, as I measured it with both the steel and TI springs (the TI might have had one turn more of pre-load, which again is fine by me)
Obtainium and TI-springs are both made with Grade 5 Ti which is not going to be a lot lighter. All these grade 5 Ti springs are coming form 1-2 sources. The ideal Ti material is Beta-C which is about 20% stronger in tensile strength and lower modulus and density but far more difficult to process. Looked at Ti-spring.com for 650 x 2.75 but the free length number was to short for 2.75 of usable travel so one should be checking this fact. Kronos seems good quality but the 650 x 2.5" spring I got form them had a rate of 624 lbs/in so never got used....they said they would correct the issue but never happened. I find it ironic that people spend a lot time on a damper when one might be better making sure you have a good quality spring that is linear in its working range and not just its rate.
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Sounds reasonable to me, my point was only that "better" doesn't equal "best" - and I'm pretty sure this new Obtainium.ca is not at all the same or at the same standard as the original Obtainium. Just suggesting that people check actual weights per actual stroke instead of assuming new = old in this case, so that they don't get ripped off.
In your case you wouldn't have paid a premium (as those TF and ti-springs.com items are relatively cheap) so it's reasonable - but these (O.ca) ones are priced heftily for what seems like an inferior product.
I'm not saying they are from the same source, I've seen weights on a few ti-springs.com items and they are not the best, but not nearly this bad (430g for 300x3) either.
Also, steel springs in general have pretty shocking accuracy (+/- 10% or worse) so comparing sag to one doesn't really mean anything. Not saying you're wrong, chances are both springs are reasonably accurate, but it's not a conclusive test.
Finally, the brands I listed as good have wider spacings and a huge safety margin in their stated strokes, which means you can reliably run lower stroke numbers (after measuring) for extra weight savings beyond the norm. Can't do this on ti-springs.com / sprungloaded / TF as the labeled stroke is much closer to the actual stroke.
I realise this stuff doesn't matter to everyone, it depends if you are looking for "a weight saving" or "the greatest saving possible" but if you're spending ~$200 on a spring it doesn't hurt to know the difference.
damn, well thanks for the heads up. i was going to use ti-spings when i had money to order one..
i also saw a user on PB had just bought 2 springs from ti-spings. according to him this spring has had no more than 30 mins of riding time in the rain and has already started to 'corrode'..
so there really arent any quality options available right now?
What they sent me in an email:
Yes, the short free length, low turn count and wider ID's are typical of all our springs. We haven't change those specs at all.
Just the quality of the titanium is significantly better than before. They last longer than any other spring out there without sagging out over time. (ie. you buy a 450lb rated sping, 4 years later, after riding, it measures 420lb). Ours don't do this, ours take 12-15 years before you see a difference. We're the only ones using this alloy for ti springs.
Yes, the short free length, low turn count and wider ID's are typical of all our springs. We haven't change those specs at all.
Just the quality of the titanium is significantly better than before. They last longer than any other spring out there without sagging out over time. (ie. you buy a 450lb rated sping, 4 years later, after riding, it measures 420lb). Ours don't do this, ours take 12-15 years before you see a difference. We're the only ones using this alloy for ti springs.
go for Eibach K9 steel springs cheap relatively light and 25 steps!!!
http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10463270/p4pb10463270.jpg
http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10463270/p4pb10463270.jpg
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I emailed them awhile ago about the Eibach springs and never heard back...it didn't seem promising.
eibach USA, say this is a Eibach mothership service from europe for "mtb spring"!!
. i got 3 piece, from order: 2 day later they arrived...!!
http://viroproducts.ch/import/k9-industries/parts.html
my 500x3" K9 has same wight like the original CCDB spring.
i order a ti-springs.
. i got 3 piece, from order: 2 day later they arrived...!!http://viroproducts.ch/import/k9-industries/parts.html
my 500x3" K9 has same wight like the original CCDB spring.
i order a ti-springs.
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It's true that obtainium ones are a lot lighter, but they were also a lot more expensive and are no longer available. My 375x3 that I run is 289g, but I looked for ages before I managed to find a second hand one in the right spring rate.
Ti-springs et al aren't the lightest springs ever made, but they are (a) cheap and (b) available. Both of which count for a lot. And they still save a lot over a steel offering.
Ti-springs et al aren't the lightest springs ever made, but they are (a) cheap and (b) available. Both of which count for a lot. And they still save a lot over a steel offering.
The new fake Obtainium.ca ones are no cheaper, but are much heavier. They did correct themselves and say 368g for a 300x3, but that's still hopeless compared to the genuine item (259g) - and suspiciously around the same weight as ti-springs.com.
I hope my point wasn't lost in my long post - basically Obtainium.ca is NOT the original Obtainium at all, and his excuse for the significant (~100g) weight jumps is that "his" original springs weren't reliable. Anyone who owns one knows this is a lie, they were very good quality springs though expensive. This guy is a joker and is clearly just reselling someone else's product with a fancy website rather than making springs like the real Obtainium did.
I wasn't having a go at "ti-springs" since they are priced accordingly (and very reasonably), and agree with you on the availability. Just pointing out that someone is offering a similar weight product at roughly twice the price under the guise of "Obtainium.ca" (in fact, looking at the above picture, I'd say these are the same springs you can get for $150 except this guy is selling them at $290-300). Buyers beware.
Like you seb, I too had to look hard to find the exact ones I wanted. I have a 375 (progressive) and 350 (dsp) @ 250g, and a 300 @ 259g (OG obtainium). The good ones are still floating around.
Hi guys
Scout from Ti-Springs.com here. Was just looking through our website referrals and noticed some traffic had be generated from this thread. I've had a read through the discussion and would just like to clear a few things up for you.
Since we started trading almost a year ago now, a few other companies (I won't name them but they are mentioned in this thread) have started doing their own titanium springs.
Competition is healthy but we have seen a lot of springs now available on the market that really differ in quality. We have purchased springs from numerous competitors and tested them. Claimed spring rates are often out by up to 15% and in some cases springs have been completely mis-printed. Finishing on the springs seems to vary a lot too. We would not recommend purchasing a spring from an unknown company. Looking at some of the offerings on the internet at the moment, you won't know what you are getting, and could end up wasting your hard earned money. Believe us when we say there really is some junk out there!
Back in 2012 we spent a lot of time testing and developing springs before bringing our own springs to market. This took a long time but the research really helped us to ensure that our springs were up to standard.
Quality control is a vital part of manufacturing and having accurate spring rates has enabled us to offer springs in .25lbs increments and all stroke sizes.
We have sold springs all over the World and now support a number of World Cup DH teams, supplying them with springs for the season, and working with them to help develop our new products.
We are out to make a stamp on the mountain bike industry; offering quality, sought after products at affordable prices. This is by no means easy and the margins are not great; but I'm a DH rider myself, and as long as we have the inspiration to work, the business will continue to grow and succeed.
I won't give away too much, but we have been developing some lighter weight springs over the past year for those who want to save as much weight as possible. There are a few of these prototype springs floating around at the moment that some of our supported riders are running. Watch this space!
I don't visit the forums often, in fact I only registered on here to reply to this thread, so if you ever have any questions you are best of emailing us direct or getting in touch via the website.
Keep it pinned!
Scout
Scout from Ti-Springs.com here. Was just looking through our website referrals and noticed some traffic had be generated from this thread. I've had a read through the discussion and would just like to clear a few things up for you.
Since we started trading almost a year ago now, a few other companies (I won't name them but they are mentioned in this thread) have started doing their own titanium springs.
Competition is healthy but we have seen a lot of springs now available on the market that really differ in quality. We have purchased springs from numerous competitors and tested them. Claimed spring rates are often out by up to 15% and in some cases springs have been completely mis-printed. Finishing on the springs seems to vary a lot too. We would not recommend purchasing a spring from an unknown company. Looking at some of the offerings on the internet at the moment, you won't know what you are getting, and could end up wasting your hard earned money. Believe us when we say there really is some junk out there!
Back in 2012 we spent a lot of time testing and developing springs before bringing our own springs to market. This took a long time but the research really helped us to ensure that our springs were up to standard.
Quality control is a vital part of manufacturing and having accurate spring rates has enabled us to offer springs in .25lbs increments and all stroke sizes.
We have sold springs all over the World and now support a number of World Cup DH teams, supplying them with springs for the season, and working with them to help develop our new products.
We are out to make a stamp on the mountain bike industry; offering quality, sought after products at affordable prices. This is by no means easy and the margins are not great; but I'm a DH rider myself, and as long as we have the inspiration to work, the business will continue to grow and succeed.
I won't give away too much, but we have been developing some lighter weight springs over the past year for those who want to save as much weight as possible. There are a few of these prototype springs floating around at the moment that some of our supported riders are running. Watch this space!
I don't visit the forums often, in fact I only registered on here to reply to this thread, so if you ever have any questions you are best of emailing us direct or getting in touch via the website.
Keep it pinned!
Scout
/snip
Scout - what grade of Ti are you using? Would be good to know for 100% consumer clarity.
^ website says grade 5
'scout'.. could you please clarify what is up with this? i didnt get a reply back from him (or what happened), but i know it came from Ti springs and has had less than an hour ride time.
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did anyone know if Ti springs got sold? it was on sale on pinkbike for a while.
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Our springs are made from (Ti-6Al-4V) Grade 5 Titanium.
I have not seen this photo before and have not been made aware of corrosion developing on any of our springs. I can see in the photo that there appears to be something on the surface of the spring, but unless we have it to hand I'm unable to tell you exactly what it is.'scout'.. could you please clarify what is up with this? i didnt get a reply back from him (or what happened), but i know it came from Ti springs and has had less than an hour ride time.
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did anyone know if Ti springs got sold? it was on sale on pinkbike for a while.
I would advise the owner of that spring to contact us so we can determine what is on the surface of the spring is, and if necessary we can replace the spring at no cost.
Ti-Springs.com has never been up for sale?
Hope this helps.
Scout
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god im sucha tard.. you are correct, it was sprung loaded.
anywho, he said he emailed you.. i just wanted to see what the outcome of it was. no biggie.
ill eventually be after a 425 or a 475 spring in a 3.25" length, 36.5 ID. i see no 475 on your site(preorder). does that mean you cant get one? i also noticed no mention of spring weights on your site, other than you can drop .5 of a lb.. anyway you could post some weights of a 3.25 spring?
thx
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well, after further investigation it appears he never sent an email to ti springs (even though that is what i was told), he just cleaned it up with gt85 and no issues until then.
anywho, he said he emailed you.. i just wanted to see what the outcome of it was. no biggie.
ill eventually be after a 425 or a 475 spring in a 3.25" length, 36.5 ID. i see no 475 on your site(preorder). does that mean you cant get one? i also noticed no mention of spring weights on your site, other than you can drop .5 of a lb.. anyway you could post some weights of a 3.25 spring?
thx
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well, after further investigation it appears he never sent an email to ti springs (even though that is what i was told), he just cleaned it up with gt85 and no issues until then.
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Yes our springs can be anodised, we offer Coloured Ti Springs on our website.
Thanks.
We don't offer .25lbs increments from 450lbs upwards because the wire thickness becomes too big to produce such accurate spring rates.
If you want to know the weight of a spring that is not in stock just drop us an email.
Thanks
Scout
ive sent him two emails and havent gotten a reply. so im not sure whats up... im only after spring weights!
theres also this option on PB. i sent him a message asking about weight for my rc4 and what material they use.. this is what i got:
We use Beta Ti, which is a grade 5 it's around 96% pure Ti and the other 4% is made up of Alu and other metals. 450 springs average around 390 grams.
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k9s fancy steel spring weighs 360grms (average for a 300lb spring). interesting.. so, there arent any readily available springs that are a decent weight now?
theres also this option on PB. i sent him a message asking about weight for my rc4 and what material they use.. this is what i got:
We use Beta Ti, which is a grade 5 it's around 96% pure Ti and the other 4% is made up of Alu and other metals. 450 springs average around 390 grams.
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k9s fancy steel spring weighs 360grms (average for a 300lb spring). interesting.. so, there arent any readily available springs that are a decent weight now?
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Does anyone here ride Kronos Titanium springs? 
I know you can order from them directly form their website, shipping worldwide. 
https://www.springtimetitanium.com/index.php?fn=mtb&no5=E
I know you can order from them directly form their website, shipping worldwide. https://www.springtimetitanium.com/index.php?fn=mtb&no5=E
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Does the quality of springs available for WC riders differ from what is available to consumers?