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Obtainium Performance Ti Spring Weights and Pics

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by FCLinder, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. FCLinder

    FCLinder Turbo Monkey

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    Just got my Ti Spring in from Obtainium Performance Products. Obtainium is a small part of a company called Hi Tech Springs that specializes in high grade springs for the aerospace industry. Obtainium is the part of the company that makes the MTB Ti Springs. They are working with some of the top MTB Industry Suspension companies to bring us (The MTB Word) some really nice high in grade springs. The springs have a nice gloss finish to them which makes it stand out over the other Ti springs out there. Makes you feel like you got more for your money’s worth. Their pricing is lower than most of the other Ti springs out their even if you have to buy a Performance Adapter to make it fit your shock right. Right now they have one size that works on both 2.75” and 3” stroke shocks, with other sizes in the works.

    My Spring Specs:
    Size: 300 x 3.0
    FREE LENGTH: 6" / 152.4mm
    Weight: 0.55lbs / 250grams

    They will be adding Weights in on their Web site soon on all the different size springs they have.

    You can order springs right off their web site at:

    http://www.obtainiumperformanceproducts.com/index.htm

    Here are a few pictures:









    Thanks Jim, a super great guy that really knows his stuff!!!!
     

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  2. Red Bull

    Red Bull Turbo Monkey

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    Cool stuff, glad to hear there are more options for ti springs.

    Any chance I can see a full pic of that Shova? Lookin pretty fun...
     
  3. FCLinder

    FCLinder Turbo Monkey

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    Sure.....






     
  4. beaverbiker

    beaverbiker Monkey

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    Hey, can you measure the actual spring rate? I'm interested to see how accurate they are? Thanks.
     
  5. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

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    I'm curious ... how would someone go about doing that?
     
  6. ChrisKring

    ChrisKring Turbo Monkey

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    The easiest (and most expensive) is on an Instron machine. It is an expensive load cell with a position output. All you need to do is measure load verses displacement. We have a generic Instron here at work that we use for tensile and bend testing. But they offer a lot of different more specialised machinces. There are other companies that make them too.

    Instron machine for springs:


    There are also special gauges used in the suspension industry that moto suspension shops use that are a bit cheaper:


    You could possibly rig a house scale up with a press or vise to do this. there would obviously be some gauge error.

    The easiest would be to ask him for a reading on your specific spring. That would be a differentiator for his business if he included tag with the actual measurement.
     
  7. Racerx7734

    Racerx7734 Monkey

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    I gotta have one of those springs.
     
  8. donkeyWC

    donkeyWC Chimp

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    for a ballpark rate (k) put a known weight (F) on the spring and measure the change in length (delta-x). k=F/delta-x. that is all the machines are doing that chriskring mentioned, but with greater ease and accuracy. you could use a dumbell, or anything else you have previously weighed. take several measurements and get an average value for k.
     
  9. beaverbiker

    beaverbiker Monkey

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    yea, you don't need an instron machine to measure the spring rate within tolerances of +/- .1 lb/in

    you can use the force-displacement equations like donkeyWC stated with known masses and an accurate ruler.
     
  10. yuroshek

    yuroshek Turbo Monkey

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    cecil that spring looks nice :clapping:
     
  11. Trekrules

    Trekrules Turbo Monkey

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    Those springs are damm sexy,that gloss finish is much better than those other Ti springs.I'm curious if they make in the near future springs for 10.5 x 3.5'' shocks that would be great for my bike and for other bikes off course.
     
  12. ChrisKring

    ChrisKring Turbo Monkey

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    You guys are right. That was what I attempting to communicate in the last couple of paragraphs. The problem is that the original question was if the springs were accurate to the number written on them. I would hope that the springs are not more than 10% off in rate.

    With a 100 pound weight on a 300 lb/in spring, your only going to get a 0.33" deflection. If your off in the measurement by 0.05" inch and you measured 0.38" rather than 0.33", the calculated spring rate would be 263 lbs/in rather than 300 lb/in. I think it's going to be hard to measure better than 0.05" accurately with a weight on it. That's why I said it would be better to ask the spring manufacturer for a certification on the spring.
     
  13. DIRTWRKS

    DIRTWRKS Monkey

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  14. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    Right but they are not made anymore. The current manitou springs are made in asia and are not wound as 'open' as the older ones so they weigh more.

    Mojo sells a 3 X 300 that is 236 grams but they offer it as a 'race only' spring...that is the stress levels are high enough that they do not want to regular 'ol folk to use it.


    Just to have another number for comparison, my DHX specific (1.38" ID) RCS 3 X 350 is 373 grams.
     
  15. FCLinder

    FCLinder Turbo Monkey

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    The 3.5" stroke Spring is in the works. They are working with RS on it, and yes that does mean RS will have a 10.5x3.5 shock soon.
     
  16. DIRTWRKS

    DIRTWRKS Monkey

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    And for yet another comparison my Progressive 3 x 350 is 325 grams
     
  17. Damo

    Damo Short One Marshmallow

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    Mine is ordered, paid for and in transit as I sit here. I'll post pics with a digi scale when it arrives...
     
  18. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    FCLinder - Any on-scale pics? Your weight sounds in line with the other obtanium weight I've seen but it never hurts to see proof.

    DIRTWRKS - Any on-scale pics of the manitou 3.0x300 weighing 210g? I don't believe that figure, as my manitou 2.75x350 weighed 256g, but maybe like davep said, yours is an older style manitou spring that is no longer available. Not really a fair comparison in that case I guess.

    davep - Any chance you could ask the guy if he can give actual ratings on springs next time you talk to him? Personally I'm chasing a 250, but really want it to be on the heavy side (250-260), as under 250 will probably be too soft. I'm also curious if there's any chance he can make intermediate rates (in the lower rates), like 275 and 325 - be great if you could ask about that too. Thanks in advance!
     
  19. FCLinder

    FCLinder Turbo Monkey

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    Sorry bro, I weighed it at work on our FedEx scale. Didn't have my camera that day.
     
  20. DIRTWRKS

    DIRTWRKS Monkey

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    Here is a shot of the Manitou 3" x 300 , I purchased it in 2006
     

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  21. dhkid

    dhkid Turbo Monkey

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    my 5th element 250x2.5 is 192 grams. sorry, no pics.
     
  22. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    I have stressed to Jim that weights are quite important, and since his springs seems to be on the lighter side, he SHOULD advertise it.
    I have also mentioned the 'intermediate' rates at the lower end (he makes a 375). IMO, springs should increase by a fixed %, not a fixed rate...the lower rate applications get kind of screwed with the industry standard jumps (500 -> 550 = 10% increase.......250 -> 300 = 20% increase). I get the feeling that there is a question about how many of these lower rates he could sell. Since no one has made them before (and there have not been bikes that could utilize that rate intil the recient past) there is no past info about the sales #s of these springs.
    It might be worth while to get an e-mail campaign going to let him know how many people want these springs...

    As for spring by spring rates...that might be hard. Jim does not build these things start to finish under his own roof. There is also variation from material batch to material batch..so lets say a certain spring is designed with a certain ti material. Each and every batch of ti has to be wound, heat-treated, stress relieved, and then tested to verify the original design..if the spring is off..the a redesign is needed (either a change in wind, or heat or whatever) ...this is done for every batch of material. I constant design evolution as I understand it.

    Obviously Jim has some margin of error that is acceptable and something that he considers outside of that range....and that would be a number that I think he could and should advertise. But individual spring rates would require another test step for each and every spring (by an outside vendor I think) that may heavily impact the price. He may do this already, but statistical sampling would be much more effecient, and still verify that the springs are within 'spec'.

    I know you contacted RCS about a specific rate spring, (and they did not have it) but I guarantee these things exist. Whether they were a test run, or were over etched or whatever..some springs are going ot fall outside of the acceptable error margin...and that could be a good thing for some people. Being in the same area as the majority of ti spring mfg, I have seen several 'non conforming' springs that have a specific rate hand-written on them, '417 lb/in' for example, show up on peoples bikes.... as it was deemed un-sellable for some reason.

    You might try to get a hold of Jim @ Obtainium as he may have something sitting around that would work..and he is still small enough to care about selling that one spring.
     
  23. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Okies, I got my 350 x 3.0" spring today. Thanks Jim and davep for the spring and information.

    Spring came in at 310g, the Vivid 3" retainer came in at 18g. Will try to organise a spring measurement in the next few days. To answer your questions - no I don't wash my bike.




     
  24. Damo

    Damo Short One Marshmallow

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    Don't you wash your bike?
     
  25. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    No point. It only gets dirty again :P Plus I swear water does more damage than dust does.
     
  26. samdemo

    samdemo Chimp

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    my scale says 194 for the same spring,close enough. some other spring weights.progressive 2.75x350 & 3.00x350 and manitou 2.75x350 & 2.75x450
     

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  27. TKCastle

    TKCastle Monkey

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  28. NY_Star

    NY_Star Turbo Monkey

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    I have that same machine at work :) :)
     
  29. Damo

    Damo Short One Marshmallow

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    400 x 3.00:


    Collars for Fox DHX:
     
  30. Arkayne

    Arkayne I come bearing GIFs

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    Nice, I'll have mine on order next month.
     
  31. FCLinder

    FCLinder Turbo Monkey

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  32. davet

    davet Monkey

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    I just picked up my Obtanium today. Sitting side by side to my standard RCS the difference is quite large. 1/2" shorter and much smaller wire size. And the weight.....RCS was 430, the Obtanium 310.


    Yes.....310 grams on the same legal postal scale! Add in the 2 spacers for the DHX at 20g a piece and we hit 350 grams. The RCS with the DHX spacer at 8 grams came to 438. 88 grams, heavier and almost $100 more expensive. I mean if the main purpose of buying a Ti spring is for weight savings, why not pay less and get more with Obtanium.
     
  33. Arkayne

    Arkayne I come bearing GIFs

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    I just received my spring and your #'s are the same as mine. Can we be 400x3.0 Obtainium best buds now?
     
  34. Buzam

    Buzam Chimp

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    I've heard of some people having issues with these springs rubbing on the DHX reservoir. Anyone here having that problem?
     
  35. Damo

    Damo Short One Marshmallow

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    ....we'll need a song....oooo, and a handshake....
     
  36. davet

    davet Monkey

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    Mine seems to be ok, but a buddy's rubbed. Obtanium has new adapter pieces for the DHX now, maybe that's why.
     
  37. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    You're actually getting less really....
     
  38. Arkayne

    Arkayne I come bearing GIFs

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    As for rubbing, I had to order it with the DHX specific adapters. I'm going to mount it tomorrow (errrr, today) and report back.
     
  39. spinner

    spinner Monkey

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    Theres only a 1- 2mm gap between the spring and the bottom out adjuster , but mine doesn't rub. Only had a couple of days riding since fitting the new spring. So far.......I love it !:happydance:
     
  40. BlackAthlete

    BlackAthlete Monkey

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    You can save a few millimeters of gap between the coil and the DHX reservoir by removing the blue bottom out adjustment cap. This buys you enough clearance, even with the largest of Obtanium springs (650 pound shown).