Obtainium Springs

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Inclag, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Inclag

    Inclag Turbo Monkey

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  2. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    I highly doubt that anyone (public) has any of Jims springs yet. I have seen some early samples and talked to him a fair bit at the begining of the summer about this venture.

    I can tell you:
    They are quality, and he knows what he is doing in mfg ti springs.

    I do not know however (and can't find any listing) as to the ID of the springs. Obviously one of the big ti spring issues here in the US is finding a propper Fox (1.37 ID) size to prevent rubbing of the body or the resevior...I do not know if he tried to do a single ID to fit multiple shocks, or if he is building multiple IDs for specific shocks. The last time I talked to him (begining of summer), he was gathering as much info as possible as to what shocks (and thus spring ID) were in need/most popular as well as spring rates and sizes.

    Shoot him an e-mail, I am sure he can answer any questions you have.
     
  3. TomBo

    TomBo Monkey

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    There is lots of info regarding what spring fits what shock. He also has come up with a simple way to deal with different IDs. From a manufacturing stand point.
     
  4. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    Yea the spacers will help prevent shock body rub...but it does not address high rate springs (with thick wire) contacting the reservoir. Like I said, I have not talked to Jim for a while (he is a friend of a friend)...so I dont know exactly what he decided to do, but when this was still an infant project, a couple of us (that are a bit more 'into' the sport) spent many hours talking about the common issues with ti mtb springs.
     
  5. ti-bender

    ti-bender Chimp

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    Our web site just went live and we're trying to work out the bugs. We are open for any suggestions. You all are our customers and will listen to everyone. We have talked about the small diameter shocks in reference to the "rubbing" issues and will design springs just for that specific shock. We have designed our springs to adapt to most of the top shock manufactures. If you have a shock and our Titanium spring won't fit please let us know and we will work with you to fix this problem. Please visit our website and contact us with any of your concerns.

    http://www.obtainiumperformanceproducts.com/index.htm
     
  6. sethimus

    sethimus Turbo Monkey

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    will you also manufacture springs for 215mm (2,5" stroke) shocks?
     
  7. Eren

    Eren Turbo Monkey

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    what about spring rates and such, cane creek runs 50lb lighter than dhx from what i was told. and bos run lighter springs as well. what about the vivid and spring rate? same as dhx, or. . . .

    i sent you guys an email. . .
     
  8. -BB-

    -BB- I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo

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    As long as the spring length (6in) is the same as the spring length on your shock, it believe it should be fine. I have a 2.75in (8.75 I-I) shock and it uses a 6in spring as well, so the 3in stroke is more than enough. Doesn't mean I cant use it though.

    "-Spring travel or stroke should be equivalent to or greater than travel of the shock.
    -Spring length should be less than the max free length of the shock (This is so the spring will actually fit)
    -Spring Rate should be acceptable to go with your body weight, bike and riding technique. "
     
  9. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Just want to say ti-bender - a big thumbs up for making 200lb and 250lb x 3.0 springs, today's low leverage ratio bikes really need these springs (especially given the number of scrawny racers out there).

    My only suggestion is that at this end of the scale, intermediate rates are hugely beneficial and no one makes them anymore (progressive used to, but they're gone).

    You'd probably help a lot of people and make some extra sales if you offered say 225lb, 275lb, and 325lb springs. I know at least the 275/325 are needed commonly on bikes like sunday's but aren't purchased thanks to them not existing.

    The other thing is - given the price and whole point of purchasing Ti springs, I reckon it's great to see actual weights on each spring if you have a digital scale handy. See what Mojo have done for an example.
     
  10. FCLinder

    FCLinder Turbo Monkey

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    ti-bender, will you be making a 350LbX2.75" for the RS Vivid? Will be looking for one very soon. I am glad to see most of you springs will be a 1.5 ID. Very smart making them first fit the larger shocks like the Cane Crek DB and RS Vivid then making an adapter to make them fit all the other shocks...:thumb:
     
  11. Patan-DH

    Patan-DH Monkey

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    What is the shock that you are having trouble with the reservoir rubbing the spring? is it the Fox DHX5.0? if so you can tell customers that they got to remove the volume adjuster of the reservoir, and maybe that way you will have some extra clearance for high rate springs. I think that somebody looking for Ti springs is a minimalist of weight and won't matter doing that to fit a spring.

    And......
    Please make'm Cheap!!!!:busted::busted:
     
  12. braaaap

    braaaap Chimp

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    The suggestion of intermediate rates is a good one. I know at least three people who would buy 375's. Also. the larger ID is smart. (IT's the future). IMHO
    On a side note, Is it possible to make a progressive spring? I know it's done in the auto industry. Just something I was curious about.
     
  13. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    Certainly possible to make progressive springs (obviously) but that brings with it a bunch of other parameters to deal with. For example if you normally ride a 400# spring, what would you do for a progressive? Start at 400 and go up? start at 350 and go up? How far would you go, how progressive? 400 -> 450? 350 -> 500? it becomes endless.

    Also, most bike mfg have finally figured out that a rising rate (at least a little bit) design is the best way to make frames for the shocks and springs available. Add (or make the norm) progressive springs, then you open the door for falling rate frame designs, designed to be combined with (what they may feel) are overly progressive springs.

    Seems like moto went thorugh this round and round a handful of years ago. They finally decided (except KTM I think) to all just build rising rate links and build around fairly linear shocks and springs to limit the possible parameters and be able to fine tune ride characteristics with less effort.
     
  14. zahgurim

    zahgurim Underwater monkey

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    Am looking for a ti spring to fit my Avy Woodie. Nice to know you offer the larger ID!
     
  15. Eren

    Eren Turbo Monkey

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    thats one of the reasons i sold the sunday. i needed a 325 spring. the 300 was too soft with preload, and the 350 was just too stiff for my liking.

    but, i can say thats not the only reason why i sold it, haha, just a small reason contributing to the bigger picture
     
  16. Curious_George

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    How Can a raising rate frame be the best beat for linkage design? wouldn't a falling rate help combat pedal induced bob and would feel plusher towards the end of the stroke and make the bike handle better???

    plz explain
     
  17. -BB-

    -BB- I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo

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    Small bump sensitivity and plushness in the beginning of the travel, ramping up in order to take big hits and not bottom out in the end of the travel.
     
  18. braaaap

    braaaap Chimp

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    Yeah, I can see how it would open up a huge can of worms with progressive spring rates.
    One thing I have found with rising rate frame designs is they seem to feel like they are hanging up through the rough stuff...Unless they have a rearward wheelpath. (Which most don't) Overall, I agree. Slightly progressive linkage designs offer the best performance for todays shocks.
     
  19. beaverbiker

    beaverbiker Monkey

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    ti-bender:

    what kind of tolerances are going to be held on the spring rate? +/- 5 in-lbs?

    i've tested a few springs that fox used as well as some that manitou used and they were more like +/- 35 in-lbs. as i'm sure you know, it makes it hard to get the right spring rate figured out when the printed spring rate isn't even close to it's actual spring rate.
     
  20. VMARTINEZ

    VMARTINEZ Monkey

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    How goes your falling rate bike. Did the new shock and Spring help?
    VM
     
  21. braaaap

    braaaap Chimp

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    VM...
    I am super excited about the new ride. We worked through all of the initial issues I had, The falling rate is no longer an issue with the new Vivid and correct spring rate. The bike feels absolutly money. We are planning on taking them down to the bootleg race a few days early to test and dial in the new settings. The 6" and DH bikes are the sickest things ever. I am planning on racing Super D on the 6" and DH on the Widows.
     
  22. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Yeah I'd be keen to see the springs tolerance. Or if they'll be measured and branded accordingly. It's a bit weak how you can pay so much for some other brands springs and have them so far off the mark.
     
  23. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    Based on what the guy behind obtanium used to do, I would expect them to be quite close to the specified rate.

    Has any one tested an RCS independently? I know exactly what mine have been, but I am just curious what others have seen if any has tested them.
     
  24. ChainWhip

    ChainWhip Monkey

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    Based on my conversations with Ti-Bender, he takes painstaking steps to verify his springs are very close to the specified rate... So far, I'm very happy with my Obtainium spring.

     
  25. cogs

    cogs Monkey

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    Did you need to order the extra spacers to fit the Vivid that Obtainium attaches to the order when you try to checkout?
     
  26. Curious_George

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    still havent rly answered my question....
     
  27. Steve M

    Steve M Turbo Monkey

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    Falling rate bikes are harsh in the early stroke (where you really need sensitivity) and bottom out easily if you don't overspring them so they've got too little sag. Bikes should be designed to pedal well geometrically, not by relying on overspringing early in the stroke.
     
  28. ChainWhip

    ChainWhip Monkey

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    My shock is a 8.5 x 2.5 and it did not require extra spacers. I would contact Obtainium and ask about fit if your Vivid is a different i2i/stroke.
     
  29. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    No spacers needed for the vivid. The spacers are to fit the 1.5" ID spings to a ahock that takes a smaller spring ID like the fox (1.37") etc.

    The vivid takes a 1.5" ID spring (exactly what obtanium is making).
     
  30. rpet

    rpet Turbo Monkey

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    QFT... 275lb spring needed here!

     
  31. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Any chance of listing weights?
     
  32. Curious_George

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    okkk have any examples of bikes...either falling or rising?
     
  33. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    Not too many falling rate designs around (any more) as most mfg have learned from their mistakes. Some bikes are more linear however, and that is usually done in conjunction with an inherantly rising spring rate shock (air shock) to make up fot/work with the frame design. Turner I know did this with some frames...versions that were orig designed to use an air shock (flux), were more linear, those frames that were designed to use a coils shock were more rising rate (DHR) etc.

    Go back a few years to the hey-day of 5th and you will find more falling rate designs...again used in conjunction with a progressively (position sensitive) damped damper (5th). The old santa cruz heckler/superlight is a great example of a falling rate design. They were OK with the propper shock, however, put a newer (non progressive) shock on it..and it either bottoms easy or looses small bump compliance.


    Just about all DH designs are rising rate due to the demands/characteristics desired in a DH bike. People want high frequency small bump compliance and bottom out resistance....that exactly defines a rising rate.
     
  34. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Three pages deep and no one has commented on just how sweet the name of this new enterprise happens to be.

    Kudos my man.
     
  35. Steve M

    Steve M Turbo Monkey

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    As davep said, not many people use falling-rate bikes anymore. There are a few around in the shorter-travel domains like the Cannondale Prophet, the SC Heckler etc, but realistically anyone still making falling-rate DH bikes is a fair way behind the times. Rising rates are all over the place, Turner DHR, most FSR bikes, etc etc and there are plenty of fairly linear bikes around too.
     
  36. dhkid

    dhkid Turbo Monkey

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    isn't the orange 224 still a falling rate?
     
  37. Tesla

    Tesla Chimp

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    I think so, but thats just looking at the suspension leverages
    Once you take into account that any shock is inherently progressive, the system as a whole is probably fairly linear through most of its travel

    well thats my understanding......bit of a minefield:think:

    edit...splee
     
  38. Curious_George

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    would you say a rising rate is more efficient and better for dh than a linear?

    what about the shock? all coil shocks are linear no?
    but air shocks would be progressive?

    how would this handle on either or systems....what if they were inversed
     
  39. beaverbiker

    beaverbiker Monkey

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    the name is genius for sure
     
  40. Steve M

    Steve M Turbo Monkey

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    Very slightly, but Orange's suspension is as primitive as it gets, and proof that good geometry is far more important than whether your suspension works.

    Too many generalisations there man, I'm not even going to begin to address that stuff.