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OC trail management?

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
Please discuss and throw out opinions:


Power to the Rangers
They now are authorized to cite troublesome park users for various violations.

By SHAWN PRICE
The Orange County Register


County park rangers now can issue citations and levy fines and are authorized to wear protective vests and use pepper spray.

The top five violations park rangers likely will be citing park users for, according to the County of Orange:

Parking: Parking in undesignated areas. Rangers occasionally will allow parking in recreational areas if it doesn't interfere with park operations.

Unauthorized motor vehicles: Using any motorized vehicle such as a four-wheel drive, all-terrain, or off-road vehicle or motorcycle within any county owned, managed or controlled sensitive or wilderness areas.

Alcoholic beverages: Possessing or consuming alcohol.

Non-leashed domestic animals: Dogs off leash, unless in a cage, crate or similar enclosure.

Designated trails: Using a bicycle off official trails.

The Orange County Board of Supervisors has given county park rangers the power to cite visitors for various violations, which should allow rangers greater ability to protect the very thing that people enjoy about the outdoors - the flora and fauna. The new program also includes protective vests for rangers and training in the use of pepper spray.

While the change was applauded by some rangers and outdoor groups, Kevin Thomas, county director of harbors, beaches and parks, was careful to make clear what the plan will not change.

"They are not police officers, they are peaceofficers. There is a distinction," Thomas said. "Our rangers' first order of business is as host and interpreter, not as enforcer. We're trying to encourage voluntary cooperation."

Thomas deemed the new plan "progressive enforcement" and said it's a reaction to the accumulated violations of a sliver of park users over the years. The department works very closely with local police on larger issues.

"There have been a few things that have spurred this over time - dogs off leash and trespassers," Thomas said. "It's a small section of the mountain bikers and dog owners, but we have some sensitive habitat out there."

Trails4All executive director Jim Meyer is thrilled that wilderness areas will be better protected.

"I think it's a great idea. One of the things we've always had a problem with is resource management," Meyer said. "The small number of users who go out and cut trails jeopardize the use of trails for everybody. This gives the rangers the tools they need to protect the land. We can't allow a few miscreants to spoil it for everybody."
Thomas said rangers will be able to write administrative, not criminal, citations for people. While fines are attached to the tickets given out, offenses would only become misdemeanors in the most extreme circumstances for repeat offenders. But Thomas stressed that was unlikely to happen.

"We're talking about a very small number. Unfortunately, one person can wreak havoc on a facility, and we need this to gain greater voluntary compliance," Thomas said.
Meyer agreed: "The guys that are breaking the rules aren't going to like it. Good. There'll be fines, and the word will get around to the bike shops. It's been a long time coming. I can't imagine being a ranger and having these guys flip you off because you couldn't do much."

Fines for all violations begin at $25 and move to $150 and $500 for repeat offenses.
Meyer's only concern is in how the program will be implemented. "It's so new to most of the rangers, there'll be some adjustment. I don't want them to be too lenient or overzealous."

The department is taking a long-term approach.
"Our hope is that we can create a better overall user experience," Thomas said. "I think we arrived at a very good program. We'll monitor it, and if we need to tweak it over time, we'll do that."
 

mtnbikej

Monkey
Sep 13, 2001
168
0
So. CAL.
They should be able to issue citations. If you are on an illegal trail and get caught......then you probably should not have been on that trail. If you are nightriding in a county park....when you know that you are not allowed are you still breaking the law, even though you may not have been caught.


It is good in the sense that they can take care of problems right there. In the past, the rangers would have to call the sheriff and by the time they got there, the cyclists were usually gone.

People who constantly walk their dogs off leash should be dealt with as well.

Sorry for the rant.

mtnbikej
 

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
That's fine, but what I'm driving at is why these trails were made illegal in the first place, and why the planned mitigation for these lost trails was never started, discussed or anything.

Say the park ranger at Oaks made waterfall illegal without doing any planning to offset this loss, would that make you upset about losing a trail that you had been riding for years without worrying about riding illegally? Now, suppose the same ranger said that they would do feasibility studies to open some of these trails that were made illegal without any reason but never did any of these studies and kept feeding people lines of "we'll get to it eventually". Would this make you upset? because it pisses me off.
There is a lack of technically challenging trails that I like to ride, and nobody seems to care that all these trails that we used to ride were taken away with an 'FU' attitude.
 

mtnbikej

Monkey
Sep 13, 2001
168
0
So. CAL.
W4S said:
That's fine, but what I'm driving at is why these trails were made illegal in the first place, and why the planned mitigation for these lost trails was never started, discussed or anything.

Say the park ranger at Oaks made waterfall illegal without doing any planning to offset this loss, would that make you upset about losing a trail that you had been riding for years without worrying about riding illegally? Now, suppose the same ranger said that they would do feasibility studies to open some of these trails that were made illegal without any reason but never did any of these studies and kept feeding people lines of "we'll get to it eventually". Would this make you upset? because it pisses me off.
There is a lack of technically challenging trails that I like to ride, and nobody seems to care that all these trails that we used to ride were taken away with an 'FU' attitude.


I agree that the trails should not be closed without the proper research and study. But this is not necessarily the doing of the rangers. This is the county saying that they need to handle things a certain way.

Otherwise, the article that you referenced above is about giving the rangers authority to police the trails.....which I believe they should be able to do so.


mtnbikej
 

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
So, if the county takes your house to build a freeway thru it and doesn't compensate your loss you'll be nice and understanding to the policeman that enforces the decision? :rolleyes:

Actually, I really don't care anymore seeing as how I moved from teh OC more than a year ago. Now I've got sick DJ and DH trails, If I could just learn how to ride them....
 

BullittX

Monkey
Dec 6, 2002
170
0
Hell Cajon, CA.
This is why we, as mtn bikers, need to be organized and get involved with trail access issues. We need to stop letting non mtn bikers make decisions for us. Even though you may not have this problem in your area now, it could happen in the not so distant future. Get involved now and prevent it from happening at all!

Start by joining and supporting your local IMBA chapter, attend trail work days so mtn bikers can have an impact on how trails should be.

mark@sdmba.com
 

HarryCallahan

Monkey
Sep 29, 2004
229
0
SC mtns
I don't see anythig wrong with giving the rangers protective gear and the power to issue citations.

As far as opening and closing trails, there should be clear, logical criteria for both, and a review process for re-looking at trails closed arbitrarily or in an emergency..

I remember reading a bunch of stuff about Orange county parks about a year ago, and all the foot dragging, and lack of action on access and trails plans. I don't know if anything has improved since then.
 

GunShow?

Chimp
May 12, 2004
43
0
Jim Meyer is part of the trails4all org. They organize a lot of trail maint with various groups like the warrior society. His quote in the article is exactly what mtn biking doesn't need in the media.

"The guys that are breaking the rules aren't going to like it. Good. There'll be fines, and the word will get around to the bike shops. It's been a long time coming. I can't imagine being a ranger and having these guys flip you off because you couldn't do much."

This article makes is sound like the problem is an epidemic. How many trails have been 'illegally cut' compared to trails that have been negligibly closed in your local riding spot? Trails that have been around for decades closed for sometimes no reason.

I don't really think joining IMBA is the answer, but becoming proactive and politically aware are going to become a must. The land we ride on is looking really good to Real Estate developers now probably more than ever. There was another article in the Register several days ago that talked about this very subject and it was pro-development of the land like Aliso Woods. The park was not mentioned by name, but the writer clearly stated that developing places like Aliso would make housing more affordable....supply and demand.