Ahaha I think thats the same line that Firth took one year and almost took out a family or two sitting atop a cooler... screaming and cussing the whole way through obviously.
Official rule on tape-hopping?
- Thread starter big-ted
- Start date
Ahaha I think thats the same line that Firth took one year and almost took out a family or two sitting atop a cooler... screaming and cussing the whole way through obviously.
Like how you could cut out 2 huge corners on the ski slope up top because they failed to tape pretty much the whole top section.
^^ On the flip-side, why is it so difficult for a race organizer to properly tape off a course? to save rebar and PVC?
I could understand some compromises if you have solid rock and would have to rotohammer holes for all of your bar. I can also understand if it's a local ski slope and it's a little bitty locals-only summer Sunday race. But if it's a 'real' event, the organizer needs to make a 'real' effort to tape properly.
Tape is not just to define the legal course - - it's a safety issue, because it gives the racer visual frame-of-reference when traveling at speed and sighting ahead. Plus, of course, it defines the boundaries for spectators and bystanders.
The racer has to be expected to take the most expedient route from one point to another and that should be anticipated and accounted for. Lazy taping jobs are an open invitation to take the direct line, whether it's the 'intended' course or not.
When we lay out the Beacon race in Spokane, we are purposely liberal in taping wide to give line options. We're lucky because most of the existing ride-arounds were well-engineered, in that they force the person to take a slower, less-direct line to do so. But there are still parts we have to tape tight or that we make purposeful chicanes so that there are no unintended direct routes to be exploited. Rule of thumb is when in doubt, DON'T be ambiguous - - tape it.
I could understand some compromises if you have solid rock and would have to rotohammer holes for all of your bar. I can also understand if it's a local ski slope and it's a little bitty locals-only summer Sunday race. But if it's a 'real' event, the organizer needs to make a 'real' effort to tape properly.
Tape is not just to define the legal course - - it's a safety issue, because it gives the racer visual frame-of-reference when traveling at speed and sighting ahead. Plus, of course, it defines the boundaries for spectators and bystanders.
The racer has to be expected to take the most expedient route from one point to another and that should be anticipated and accounted for. Lazy taping jobs are an open invitation to take the direct line, whether it's the 'intended' course or not.
When we lay out the Beacon race in Spokane, we are purposely liberal in taping wide to give line options. We're lucky because most of the existing ride-arounds were well-engineered, in that they force the person to take a slower, less-direct line to do so. But there are still parts we have to tape tight or that we make purposeful chicanes so that there are no unintended direct routes to be exploited. Rule of thumb is when in doubt, DON'T be ambiguous - - tape it.
Last edited:
My .02
If you jump tape, you cheated
If promoter too lazy to tape the course properly, they sux. No difference then
moving over 2 feet off the "worn in" line to set up for a turn or feature.
My example is the ninja line 3 feet up the grass hill from the bench cut into the upper rocks at massenutten this past weekend. no tape = freegame
Line selection is part of the skill, or just watching others find the good lines! Fastest way down is the whole point
If you jump tape, you cheated
If promoter too lazy to tape the course properly, they sux. No difference then
moving over 2 feet off the "worn in" line to set up for a turn or feature.
My example is the ninja line 3 feet up the grass hill from the bench cut into the upper rocks at massenutten this past weekend. no tape = freegame
Line selection is part of the skill, or just watching others find the good lines! Fastest way down is the whole point
Last edited:
Someone has to say it, of course you shouldn't break the rules of the race (uci, usac, msc, or any others) but when it comes to riding the course, it's a race and you go to a race to be the fastest person down the hill. If a promoter doesn't want a line ridden they need to tape it out. I understand the "honor the trail" argument, but if another rider can ride the line, it makes it almost a requisite for all riders. I can't tell how many times I have been at a race and had to ride a lame line because it wasn't taped and someone else was doing it. Thats racing.My .02
If you jump tape, you cheated
If promoter too lazy to tape the course properly, they sux. No difference then
moving over 2 feet off the "worn in" line to set up for a turn or feature.
My example is the ninja line 3 feet up the grass hill from the bench cut into the upper rocks at massenutten this past weekend. no tape = freegame
Line slection is part of the skill, or just watching others find the good lines! Fastest way down is the whole point
This kind of bring me to another question. It happened the year S.K.C. Hurt himself at a race 06/07? It was the Utah course at Diablo. There was a path that was NOT open at the beginning of practice on Saturday, but by the end it had been opened up by some riders. A lot of riders Including me, got used to taking the new line. I however got used to taking both lines around each side of the tree just incase it was closed off later. The next morning on my first run down, the line was open, however, on my second practice run it had been closed off again. During that race the Pros went first and I heard one mention "the inside line is open again", so I took it in my race run and so did many others.
I hate cheating, I like fair races, but this is one thing that one move has always bugged me. I must say that the line was open for 75% of practice, and many riders took that line.
Also, last year at Windam a similar thing happened actually partially distracting me causing me to crash. I wouldn't have won either way so it wasn't a big deal. There was this one line the slalomed around a trees stump in between some trees. The tape was taped onto the stump, but it fell off numerous times during practice. A strait line had been worked in on the other side of the stump. When I did my race run I got to that part of the course, to my surprise there was NO course martial in that area, the tape was down. I got distracted/hesitated, because I was debating which line to take. I went with the original line, but because of the hesitation, I wasn't quite set up right and went off course in to the woods.
This is another situation... what do you do?
This is my few cents on a similar subject, I would love to hear some more opinions on this as well.
I hate cheating, I like fair races, but this is one thing that one move has always bugged me. I must say that the line was open for 75% of practice, and many riders took that line.
Also, last year at Windam a similar thing happened actually partially distracting me causing me to crash. I wouldn't have won either way so it wasn't a big deal. There was this one line the slalomed around a trees stump in between some trees. The tape was taped onto the stump, but it fell off numerous times during practice. A strait line had been worked in on the other side of the stump. When I did my race run I got to that part of the course, to my surprise there was NO course martial in that area, the tape was down. I got distracted/hesitated, because I was debating which line to take. I went with the original line, but because of the hesitation, I wasn't quite set up right and went off course in to the woods.
This is another situation... what do you do?
This is my few cents on a similar subject, I would love to hear some more opinions on this as well.
BrianHead Utah National 2006-
There was a long outside left hand corner with a lot of rocks in the corner after the biggest rock garden. The corner was not taped, but the race organizers thought since there was massive debris in the area that the corner went around that it would not be cut. There were spectators in the outside area. In his race run JD swaguen cut the corner through spectators and the debris to win the JR X class. It was a legal move because there was no tape. Even though many people raised hell about it and got angry about it the officials did nothing and cited the USA cycling rules.
No tape = fair game is basically what the rules say. I think its totally bogus but it is what it is.
There was a long outside left hand corner with a lot of rocks in the corner after the biggest rock garden. The corner was not taped, but the race organizers thought since there was massive debris in the area that the corner went around that it would not be cut. There were spectators in the outside area. In his race run JD swaguen cut the corner through spectators and the debris to win the JR X class. It was a legal move because there was no tape. Even though many people raised hell about it and got angry about it the officials did nothing and cited the USA cycling rules.
No tape = fair game is basically what the rules say. I think its totally bogus but it is what it is.
Personally I am one who loves thinking about the lines that nobody else would think about. For a big race I think everything should be clear cut. No maybes, just yes and no. If it's not taped off, it's fair game. A promoter should very well know that if a mountain biker will do a 40 ft drop, that most likely they will plow through rocks, not matter how crazy or impossible it may seem.
I too like looking for alt lines. Promotors job to properly mark course. It is also promotors job to have someone ride/walk couse for repairs or corrected moved lines every so often. Riders job to follow the marked couse as fast as possible.
Now if someone is caught changing tape, then they should be disqualified or beaten, their choice
irate2:
Hes a line jumper!
How can it be simply about the tape? What happens if the guy 30 seconds in front of you goes through the tape and rips off thirty feet of it? Does that give you the right to ride wherever you want to? No.
if u aint cheatin u aint trying
Brianhead 2008 Last NMBS
About 3/4 down the track there was no tape through a wooded/rutted section but the course was obvious. Late saturday there were a couple new lines forming that weren't a very big deal; hopping a log and cutting the turn short, to get lined up for it you had to slow down more than just staying on the course and plowing through the rut. On sunday practice, people started cutting the course about 200 ft above the turn and were straight bushwacking. From the results, it seemed to cut off 5-8 seconds.
Brianhead seems susceptible that kind of thing but I know it happens everywhere.
The effort would be quite more than most officials would like but they should really tape the entire course so its always an obivious yes/no.
I am half torn about this argument. I mean that is a SICK line! So if one guy has the balls to do it so can the other riders??! (If they have it in them). I am very open to things but taking lines that others can't obviously follow is cheating (like go under tape in random place) but leaving the ground and hoping a tape (rock) is creative and I think is acceptable. Reason is, to me a course is a general idea of which way to go and ... hey ... find the fastest line you think is best. I have seen numerous riders rub against the tape and move it "within its means" like a few inches and never does anyone complain. Hoping a rock with tape on it to me is no different (a few inches). I mean this isn't bobsled racing down a directly given path...
The bottom line is......IF you are intentionally going outside the taped section, your cheating. Even if its a "Local race" and they are marking off a normal part of a run, they are wanting you to take a turn. DH courses are not marked off as singletrack runs, in the spots they are..... guess what, thats the line they want you to take, find your "Ninja lines" when the course is wide, and there are multiple lines.
A Proper Ninja line, is well within the course, its just a line you wouldnt think about. Cutting the course is cheating, stay within the intended run.
Oh, and for the record, if its NOT taped, its fair game, but at the same time, the rider is responsible to stay within the course when the taped is damaged, just because the tape happens to be down when you come through, doesnt mean you have a new section opened.
A Proper Ninja line, is well within the course, its just a line you wouldnt think about. Cutting the course is cheating, stay within the intended run.
Oh, and for the record, if its NOT taped, its fair game, but at the same time, the rider is responsible to stay within the course when the taped is damaged, just because the tape happens to be down when you come through, doesnt mean you have a new section opened.
The worst is when even organizers find out people have been taking a line they are not fond of and then instead of taping it off, BLOCK it off with random strewn obstacles (branches/rocks/etc). I have seen this done a few times and it is downright dangerous.
Sunday river for instance: there was a nice inside line under the chairlift that was literally only a couple feet inside of the 'intended' line (and it was worn in slightly from beforehand). It was acually SAFER and EASIER in addition to being faster, than the intended outside line that had some tricky rocks to weave through. Luckily I knew they were pissed about it and avoided taking the 'ninja' line in my race run, but a friend of mine was not as lucky as he managed to run into the rocks they had placed to keep people from riding it and tore his ACL. That is just unacceptable IMO.
Sunday river for instance: there was a nice inside line under the chairlift that was literally only a couple feet inside of the 'intended' line (and it was worn in slightly from beforehand). It was acually SAFER and EASIER in addition to being faster, than the intended outside line that had some tricky rocks to weave through. Luckily I knew they were pissed about it and avoided taking the 'ninja' line in my race run, but a friend of mine was not as lucky as he managed to run into the rocks they had placed to keep people from riding it and tore his ACL. That is just unacceptable IMO.
Exactly. You may be as high as Myles Rockwell, but if you race DH, you should have enough brains to know what the intent of the course is supposed to be.
Yes, it is what it is. But man to man, I definitely do not have the same level of respect towards people who behave like this and I think it does say a thing or two about their character...
I was thinking of this exact instance as well. That was just ridiculous as it was a part of the existing trail... they just didn't want us racing on it. That line was actually MUCH MUCH safer than the line they wanted us to race on too if i recall.
Sometimes thats the exact point of racing, to push more technical lines, and to push your own skill levels to maintain, and to control through scetchy lines.
What we do is done Between The Tape.
Once you cross the tape, whether willingly or unexpectedly (my preferred method, unfortunately), you are technically off-course and need to re-enter at the point in which you left. That's how I've always heard it described.
Are you racing Cat 1 or Pro? If not, then the issue at hand would be sandbagging!
I kid.
Once you cross the tape, whether willingly or unexpectedly (my preferred method, unfortunately), you are technically off-course and need to re-enter at the point in which you left. That's how I've always heard it described.
Are you racing Cat 1 or Pro? If not, then the issue at hand would be sandbagging!
I kid.
It means you want to use as much of the course as you can to get from Point A to Point B as fast as you can. Watch the WC pros ride. They aren't afraid to use EVERY bit of ground to snipe a faster line out of a section. They usually get pretty intimate with the tape and the sticks and there's probably a few instances at every race that could be called into question as much as this.
So what happens when the wind is blowing, and the tape is 3' off the ground on the stick that is allowing the tape to move 4' between extremes? Around the apex of a corner, that's a lot of real estate to a rider trying to cut off as many bike lengths between the start gate and the finish line. What if the stick is bending really far towards the outside of the course, and the rider chooses to jump over the stick to square off the corner, but the next rider down doesn't have access to those few feet of room to the inside?
So what happens when the wind is blowing, and the tape is 3' off the ground on the stick that is allowing the tape to move 4' between extremes? Around the apex of a corner, that's a lot of real estate to a rider trying to cut off as many bike lengths between the start gate and the finish line. What if the stick is bending really far towards the outside of the course, and the rider chooses to jump over the stick to square off the corner, but the next rider down doesn't have access to those few feet of room to the inside?
People it's racing - you go the be the fastests. Even at the local races. Jumping over the line seems like a creative idea and people do it often. You either try to be the fastest or think all day about moral implication of your lines. If the second one is the answer I sugest giving up riding and joining a monestary.
Imo it is cheating if the line was CUT by someone before and you use it or you go waaay beyond the intened course with much easier course (but I think it's also a very unclear rule). The truth is that if its possible to have a ninja line that the organiser not intended it is HIS PROBLEM not the riders as riders job is to go as fast as possible.
Imo it is cheating if the line was CUT by someone before and you use it or you go waaay beyond the intened course with much easier course (but I think it's also a very unclear rule). The truth is that if its possible to have a ninja line that the organiser not intended it is HIS PROBLEM not the riders as riders job is to go as fast as possible.
Ninja Line: Noun. A not obvious or not expected line. May be of a higher degree of difficulty than the intended course, but is the faster route. Not to be confused with the "shogun line" in which a rider blows out of a turn as a result of entering it too fast.
OK, so if the ninja line is between the tape, then the line outside the tape must be the pirate line.
So which wins, ninja or pirate?
So which wins, ninja or pirate?
Ninja wins; pirate gets DQ'd.
Ninjas DUH!
I like when he says if it was Ninjas of the Caribbean they'd get the job done.
They did Pirates Vs Knights last night, Nijna vs Pirates would be a good one.
This last part is just like how others aer saying, the rider should know what the intended course is, stick to the original course.
LoL... It's good to be remembered. (...and Yes, it was June of 07' Diablo Domination Round #2)
...I wouldn't say "hurt himself" so much as "catapulted himself into some trees"... :biggrin: Apparently my intent to get hurt was a foregone conclusion from the second I decided to "roll" out of my OTB situation.
Hilarious.
So - that inside line you were referring to - I was walking the course with a guy from Sinister and noticed that a lot of the faster guys were taking that line. The tape was wide at that point and followed the fall line down the far right of the trail. The inside line took you in between 2 small trees off the giant "Stonehenge" block into a SUPER tight right hander. If you let your eyes follow the natural parallel lines of the "Stonehenge" block you would wind up going too far left and drop head-on into this knife-edge of rock that was in your landing zone. Needless to say that's what happened to me.
I never saw anyone goof with the tape, but I did hear that the following day the tape was moved to block off the line I crashed on... and then it got moved back again apparently...
I say play it fair if the tape is down, and stay on course. Chances are someone will catch your shenanigans OR you might wind up blasting through unfamiliar terrain resulting in a possible wreck. In the end - it's your reputation. Do what you want with it. I know I'm keeping mine.
Last edited:
At Diablo, you could always argue that the bears messed with the tape.
Whoa. Lots of people with lots to say on this. Personally, at the time I figured what I did was fair game. Had I cut off a huge portion of what was obviously intended to be the course, then, yea, no way I'd have done it, but as has been said, riders will often lean their bike over the tape so as to cut the corner that little bit tighter, I didn't really see much difference to what I was doing and, honestly, I think some of you might be singing a slightly different tune if I could actually show a video of the line in question. Obviously, there's the question of sportsmanship and I was showboating as much as anything else as I knew I'd already blown my run on the upper section of the course. The resulting (and well deserved) heckling I incurred prompted me to put the question to the masses. I've still not had anyone come back with the OFFICIAL ruling. I would have thought that, at the top level, things like this wuld be important enough to be clarified somewhat.
I think the topic of debate in my instance is was I actually outside the tape? As I said, had I laid a tabletop in the air the lowest point of my tyres would have remained inside.
Anyway, lesson learned. Wrists slapped. Wont happen again!
I think the topic of debate in my instance is was I actually outside the tape? As I said, had I laid a tabletop in the air the lowest point of my tyres would have remained inside.
Anyway, lesson learned. Wrists slapped. Wont happen again!
Last edited:
i didnt see any tape that he crossed.
but still cool none the less
Hello,
Anyone remember a video a few years ago of a person with the initials NV jumping course tape/pole.
I have been scanning videos for a few minutes just cant find it.
Anyone remember a video a few years ago of a person with the initials NV jumping course tape/pole.
I have been scanning videos for a few minutes just cant find it.
It's bullshlt when riders find a ninja line between the end of tape and start of the next tape and practice it, to have it taped off, just before the race. "It's a rider's responsibility to ride the intended course". WTF?? It's happened to me at a local race.
It's fair game if it's not taped off ...leaving a taped area, riding a faster line, and entering the next taped area. Leaving the taped area to ride a faster line along the outside of the rest of the taped course would be different.
It's up the promoters and other race people to route the tape along the 'intended course' if they don't want any certain lines to be taken.
It's fair game if it's not taped off ...leaving a taped area, riding a faster line, and entering the next taped area. Leaving the taped area to ride a faster line along the outside of the rest of the taped course would be different.
It's up the promoters and other race people to route the tape along the 'intended course' if they don't want any certain lines to be taken.
You must've missed my earlier post?
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3220807&postcount=23
Basically, I think you found a legitimate 'gray area' - - the taping/course boundary rules just are not that spelled out.
Last edited: