Oh no...this is not good.

Sherpa · Feb 3, 2005

Brian Peterson said:
Touche...

Actually, most of our preorders came in the form of EP orders after Interbike. The orders that came in prior were from people who had seen forks being tested in various places....

Glad you like the 888...

Brian

You guys are top notch at Marz. and i am in love with my 888 Works. Your always very professional on here no matter what's going on in the forums.

{Off topic} Do i need to change my oil in my Works after 10-20hrs? I never got any paperwork with my fork so i don't know what's in it.{Off topic}

Brian Peterson · Feb 3, 2005

Thanks... We try.. Some may disagree, but we do try.

As for the oil change, I have to look into that.... I know there is an additive they add to the oil in the works forks so I am not sure how that effects the time table for oil changes. Was the sticker with the specs at least on your fork?

Brian

Sherpa · Feb 3, 2005

Brian Peterson said:
Thanks... We try.. Some may disagree, but we do try.

As for the oil change, I have to look into that.... I know there is an additive they add to the oil in the works forks so I am not sure how that effects the time table for oil changes. Was the sticker with the specs at least on your fork?

Brian

Nada. Only thing i was missing.

Brian Peterson · Feb 3, 2005

El_Chimichanga said:
What I meant to say is...How often do you guys get forks wrenched at the dropouts. I'm guessing not much compared to how many forks are out there being used.
I didn't see it in the manual, and so maybe a revision in the Tech manual would be helpful, something like:

DO NOT OVER TORQUE PINCH BOLTS AS IT CAN CRACK THE LOWER CASTING
Make it obvious as to what happens. It may already be in there, but I don't remeber seeing it said like that.
Coming off of Boxxers, if you over torqued it, they would just strip, and you could get them fixed with a helicoil. So really, I wasn't aware that this could even happen to an axle clamp, and I think I would have paid more attention to torque specs if it said something like that.
...And knowing is half the battle.

Torque specs are in the manual... They are metric which may throw a few people off...

But the warranty guys do inspect each one that does come back. We have seen some where the problem was with the casting. If the problem is the casting, it is easy enough to spot, then it is warrantied, no questions asked. But, when you call us up and tell us you cracked the drop out, we can't say it is a warranty until we see it. Plus, every warranty we do gets reported to Marz Italy so changes can be made as needed.

Brian

Bacardi · Feb 3, 2005

DO NOT OVER TORQUE PINCH BOLTS AS IT CAN CRACK THE LOWER CASTING[/QUOTE]
This is the only case where I can imagine QR20 flip flop levers are good. If you overtighten them and try to close them, they will strip. Just Buy another $20 replacement, and don't wait for warranty turn around.

Brian Peterson · Feb 3, 2005

Sherpa said:
Nada. Only thing i was missing.

Email me directly.... I'll see what I can find out...

Brian

Sherpa · Feb 3, 2005

Brian Peterson said:
Email me directly.... I'll see what I can find out...

Brian

Do it when i get home. Around 4 Central. Thanks for the help.

Bicyclist · Feb 3, 2005

I broke the bolts on the QR20 system... it sucks.

Bacardi · Feb 3, 2005

hucker13 said:
I broke the bolts on the QR20 system... it sucks.

Yes but they are cheap to replace compared to New lowers...Unless it is covered by warranty, but then there is the waiting part ....

zedro · Feb 3, 2005

El_Chimichanga said:
DO NOT OVER TORQUE PINCH BOLTS AS IT CAN CRACK THE LOWER CASTING

how about designing the thing properly so it cant self mutilate itself. Smaller bolts, or aluminum bolts, or a couple more grams of beef at the dropout. It's rediculous to think you can break the lowers by going over the really low 6Nm torque limit. Piss poor design, they should be so fragile.

punkassean · Feb 3, 2005

Can you slip a washer in the crack to prevent over-torqueing?

Brian Peterson · Feb 3, 2005

I don't think a washer will prevent over torqueing.... And you really don't have a lot of extra room to use a bigger washer to help disperse the load better. The best thing is to alternate on the bolts while tightening them. Do not get on all the way tight and then do the second bolt. Much like on a stem or even like head bolts on a car engine...

Brian

LOOnatic · Feb 3, 2005

El_Chimichanga said:
Yeah, this is what I always do when there are two bolts next to each other. In fact I really HAVE to do this when aligning Hayes Brakes on the rotor, so I really got used to this method.
What If I had a wafer thin shim made? You still don't think it would at least help a little bit? The problem I'm worried about is over torquing it while replacing a tire or tube when on the trail. You can use a torque wrench every time at home, but what happens that one time out on the trail when you start a hairline crack while fixing a flat?

Don't ride drunk? :nope:

:devil:

zedro · Feb 3, 2005

El_Chimichanga said:
Yeah, this is what I always do when there are two bolts next to each other. In fact I really HAVE to do this when aligning Hayes Brakes on the rotor, so I really got used to this method.
What If I had a wafer thin shim made? You still don't think it would at least help a little bit? The problem I'm worried about is over torquing it while replacing a tire or tube when on the trail. You can use a torque wrench every time at home, but what happens that one time out on the trail when you start a hairline crack while fixing a flat?

problem with the washer is figuring out the right thickness and how it relates torque to whatever stress in the dropout. Probably more reliable just to learn what 6Nm feels like.

BigHit-Maniac · Feb 3, 2005

zedro said:
problem with the washer is figuring out the right thickness and how it relates torque to whatever stress in the dropout. Probably more reliable just to learn what 6Nm feels like.

You're probably right Zedro.

6nm is damn loose. It feels like you didn't even tighten it.

:thumb:

Westy · Feb 3, 2005

zedro said:
problem with the washer is figuring out the right thickness and how it relates torque to whatever stress in the dropout. Probably more reliable just to learn what 6Nm feels like.

Couldn't you torque it, measure the gap and grind a washer the same size?

To prevent one bolt getting tightened at a time you could make custome bolts that have a timing belt ran between them.

Brian Peterson · Feb 3, 2005

El_Chimichanga said:
Yeah, this is what I always do when there are two bolts next to each other. In fact I really HAVE to do this when aligning Hayes Brakes on the rotor, so I really got used to this method.
What If I had a wafer thin shim made? You still don't think it would at least help a little bit? The problem I'm worried about is over torquing it while replacing a tire or tube when on the trail. You can use a torque wrench every time at home, but what happens that one time out on the trail when you start a hairline crack while fixing a flat?

Hmm... Well, I must admit, I have never used a torque wrench and I have never cracked my drop out on my fork. I have always gone by feel. I have been told just to snug them. Like Zedro said, you can learn the feel for it.

Remember, tighter isn't always better.... And yes, I am guilty of falling victim to that too... Hey, let's just snug up every bolt a little more... Aww crap....

Brian

Brian Peterson · Feb 3, 2005

LOOnatic said:
Don't ride drunk? :devil:

But that is how I learned barspin tail taps on my BMX bike....

I was going to say don't wrench drunk, but I would have a hard time giving up the traditional beer or 2 while working on my bike...

Brian

dhtahoe · Feb 3, 2005

BigHit-Maniac said:
Hey Brian, I know you work for Marz. I heard it from a guy that has good connections with a Marz rep. He owns a bike shop, and shared the info with me. It may be wrong for all I know, but I do know that there's a considerable mark-up on the forks especially. There's definitely a point of high prices, and insane prices. I could see maybe an 888 asking price at around $850, but not $1,500 +.

I apologize if *I* was off, I was just going by what I heard.

Wow i wish I could live in that world. Hey y'all get into moto THEN bitch about fork prices. We don't pay squat for a fork. These guys are doing there best to make forks we can all afford. Then when the quality goes up and the price follows you all bitch about how ripped off your getting. This I heard from a guy that heard from a guy that it only costs X amount to make is crap. They still have to package, ship or import, wherehouse, and stock spare parts. Guess what it all costs money!!! Lets face it not a whole lot of people are getting rich in the bike industry right now. Most of you a not very clued into how business works, but want to tell the internet world how easy it all is. Ya ya I know what your thinking... I'm a pro so what does he know about paying retail. More than you think!!! It's tough out there.

BigHit-Maniac · Feb 3, 2005

dhtahoe said:
Wow i wish I could live in that world. Hey y'all get into moto THEN bitch about fork prices. We don't pay squat for a fork. These guys are doing there best to make forks we can all afford. Then when the quality goes up and the price follows you all bitch about how ripped off your getting. This I heard from a guy that heard from a guy that it only costs X amount to make is crap. They still have to package, ship or import, wherehouse, and stock spare parts. Guess what it all costs money!!! Lets face it not a whole lot of people are getting rich in the bike industry right now. Most of you a not very clued into how business works, but want to tell the internet world how easy it all is. Ya ya I know what your thinking... I'm a pro so what does he know about paying retail. More than you think!!! It's tough out there.

Whoa there tiger.

dhtahoe · Feb 3, 2005

BigHit-Maniac said:
Whoa there tiger.

Just trying to put a LITTLE prospective on it. But because I didn't bash MARZ on this thread I guess I'm out of line...Sorry. Marzocchi's forks suck is that better :rolleyes:

punkassean · Feb 3, 2005

HAHA "pro"spective, I like that :thumb:

perspective from a seasoned pro.

kidwoo · Feb 3, 2005

punkassean said:
HAHA "pro"spective, I like that

perspective from a seasoned pro.

That was a accident. He's illiterate. Give him a break will ya?

dhtahoe · Feb 3, 2005

My tenth year racing... second year pro. Man I remember when you could not get a DH fork unless you were top ten WC. Transend is one of the few that can relate here. As far as I'm concerned at least we can buy them now. I don't know I see so many hack mechanics doing such lame crap and then when it fails they bitch. EVERY bolt you tighten HAS A PROCESS. Every one of these dropouts that have been brought to me by the same dudes in my area that seem to bust EVERYTHING yet it ALAWYS seems to come to me after the fact. tighten your bolts equally. Most reef one down tight as it will go, then crank the other one down. If I'm working on a jet engine and the manufacturer sets a assembly procedure and I don't follow it. Guess what when it fails and 300 or so people die IT'S MY FAULT. I didn't come up with my sig on a wim. The only things on my bike that have ever failed WERE MY FAULT... In ten years!!!

dhtahoe · Feb 3, 2005

kidwoo said:
That was a accident. He's illiterate. Give him a break will ya?

No he was right... TRYING (key word) to be funny.

Oh no...this is not good.

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