[$tinkle]

Young people (of all political leanings) are pro gay-marriage,

so young conservatives are pro-gay marriage? news to us

and older people (who have traditionally voted Democrat) are against it. White people are more accepting of gay-marriage yet vote disproportionately Republican

ok, to clarify, if most people are white, then it stands to reason that most older people are also white.

yet they can't simultaneously be both d & r. are you observing a major political shift among older white voters primarily due to this issue?

So Obama's trying not to completely piss off the large percentage of his supporters who are against gay marriage.

a good leader may not regard them in the slightest if he acts on the courage of his convictions [for better or worse, cf dubya], but a better leader would de-emphasize this as practically irrelevant to his post.

clinton nearly did this.

 

[dante]

so young conservatives are pro-gay marriage? news to us

Are you stupid or just being obtuse? Young people are, ON AVERAGE, more supportive of gay rights and gay marriage than the country as a whole.

Older people are, ON AVERAGE, less supportive of gay rights and gay marriage than th country as a whole.

Blacks are, ON AVERAGE, less supportive of gay rights than the country as a whole.

Whites are, ON AVERAGE, more supportive of gay rights than the country as a whole.

Proof for age discrepancy (also broken down by state):

More.

There are also big differences of opinion in respect to age. Majorities of voters under age 40 approve of allowing same-sex couples to marry, with those in the 18-29 age group strongly in favor (68% to 27%). Opposition increases with each successively older age group, and is greatest among voters 65 or older, who divide 51% to 42% against.

Women are also more likely than men to approve of allowing same-sex couples to marry. The current poll finds women in favor by a fifteen-point margin (54% to 39%), while men are about evenly (47% approving and 45% disapproving).

White non-Hispanic and Latino voters are in favor while all other race and ethnic groups, including African-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans and Vietnamese-Americans are opposed.

Happy?

 

[dante]

yet they can't simultaneously be both d & r. are you observing a major political shift among older white voters primarily due to this issue?
a good leader may not regard them in the slightest if he acts on the courage of his convictions [for better or worse, cf dubya], but a better leader would de-emphasize this as practically irrelevant to his post.

clinton nearly did this.

Dubya didn't act on his convictions, he played to his base and then manipulated rest of the country to get to 51%.

As for older voters, it all depends on how much they value social issues as opposed to economic ones. Paul Ryan's "blueprint" where he guts SS and Medicare is a great way to drive them back to the Democratic fold, but only time will tell...

 

[$tinkle]

Are you stupid or just being obtuse? Young people are, ON AVERAGE, more supportive of gay rights and gay marriage than the country as a whole.

change your tampon, sarah

if you go back, you'll see where you failed to differentiate young conservatives from all young people, ["Young people (of all political leanings) are pro gay-marriage"] which is my main objection, and is the point where you lost me.

you cannot be both conservative & pro gay-marriage. that's like being a pro-choice catholic, which is only ok if you're speaker of the house

 

[dante]

change your tampon, sarah

if you go back, you'll see where you failed to differentiate young conservatives from all young people, ["Young people (of all political leanings) are pro gay-marriage"] which is my main objection, and is the point where you lost me.

Who's breaking it out between "young conservatives" and "all young people"? I simply stated that young people are, ON AVERAGE more likely to support gay rights than the country as a whole. I'd bet that goes for young Republicans as well, or else 68% of the 18-29 year olds in this country are Democrat...

you cannot be both Conservative & pro gay-marriage. that's like being a pro-choice catholic, which is only ok if you're speaker of the house

Fixed. "Conservative" (big C) is the GOP on steroids, with a hands-off approach to government on all economic and regulatory issues, but a big HANDS-ON approach to government involvement in everyday social issues (abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, organized religion, etc).

"conservative" (small c) is perfectly in tune with being pro gay-marriage, since it gets the government out of personal lives, and out of religions as well. If Episcopalians want to be able to marry gay members of their congregation, how is the government stepping in and preventing that not an affront to the freedom of religion clause?

 

[$tinkle]

you *do* realize when you put "pro-" in front of anything, you advocate for it, right?

pro-gun
pro-life
pro-marriage

there are no conservatives who advocate for both the preservation of man-woman marriage and also for gay marriage.

it just. isnt. happening

 

[dante]

you *do* realize when you put "pro-" in front of anything, you advocate for it, right?

pro-gun
pro-life
pro-marriage

Oh god, go take a stats class before you hurt yourself.

there are no conservatives who advocate for both the preservation of man-woman marriage and also for gay marriage.

That's not what you said. You said:

you cannot be both conservative & pro gay-marriage

Note the bold section that you omitted from your original comment. There are conservatives (note the small c) who are for gay marriage. There are no Conservatives (read, bible-thumping teabagger morons) who are for gay marriage.

 

[Silver]

change your tampon, sarah

if you go back, you'll see where you failed to differentiate young conservatives from all young people, ["Young people (of all political leanings) are pro gay-marriage"] which is my main objection, and is the point where you lost me.

you cannot be both conservative & pro gay-marriage. that's like being a pro-choice catholic, which is only ok if you're speaker of the house

Shut up. Really, you're just making yourself look more stupid than normal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/20/cindy-mccain-noh8-photo-m_n_430004.html

Yes, I know, McCain isn't REALLY a CONSERVATIVE. You'll just change what the word means to you at random if needed.

 

[$tinkle]

and another Q: just *who* voted for prop 8, if not [largely] conservatives? using your logic/assertions, conservatives are ok w/ SS marriage, so who are these 7 million voters? did they believe they were voting for something else, like abolition of sexual identity?

by the logic that there are conservatives who are pro SS marriage, then it stands to reason there is a similar portion of liberals who are pro 1man-1woman marriage

somebody's lying here

oh, and *JOHN* mccain's a conservative
*CINDY* mccain is a...well...let's just take john's regrettable description of her & leave it at that.

 

[dante]

and another Q: just *who* voted for prop 8, if not [largely] conservatives? using your logic/assertions, conservatives are ok w/ SS marriage, so who are these 7 million voters? did they believe they were voting for something else, like abolition of sexual identity?

by the logic that there are conservatives who are pro SS marriage, then it stands to reason there is a similar portion of liberals who are pro 1man-1woman marriage

somebody's lying here

oh, and *JOHN* mccain's a conservative
*CINDY* mccain is a...well...let's just take john's regrettable description of her & leave it at that.

Holy crap, are you really this dumb? Yes, there are "liberals" (or at least Democratic voters, or Democratic-leaning demographic groups) who are pro 1man-1woman marriage. I already told you that. Older voters and minorities are more likely to a) vote Democrat and b) vote *against* gay marriage. 92% of blacks voted for Obama, but a majority of them voted *for* Prop 8.

 

[stevew]

you cannot be both conservative & pro gay-marriage. that's like being a pro-choice catholic, which is only ok if you're speaker of the house

or a kennedy.....oh wait....they're all dead.

 

[ohio]

and another Q: just *who* voted for prop 8, if not [largely] conservatives?

I can't figure out if you're trolling or you just took a ball-peen to the cranium... seriously, you've never been this bad at statistics before. Are you drunk?

 

[stoney]

you *do* realize when you put "pro-" in front of anything, you advocate for it, right?

pro-gun
pro-life
pro-marriage

there are no conservatives who advocate for both the preservation of man-woman marriage and also for gay marriage.

it just. isnt. happening

Um... I think we can all agree that I fall under the conservative category, and I am pro-gay rights. Hell, I lived with a gay guy in college. There are a lot of conservatives such as myself who want hands-off our lives and hands off our money.

 

[$tinkle]

we're not just talking past ea other, you people are guano crazy.

once you understand the conservative platform gives no quarter to SSM (and they are *not* silent nor ambivalent on this issue), you will then understand conservatives voting against prop 8 were as rare as honest politicians. libertarians, centrists, independents, sure, but not conservatives.

if ever there were a dependable voting bloc on this issue, it's conservatives.

conclusion? conservatives made up the majority of aye votes for prop 8. is it so hard to believe all 5M of them showed up that day? [breakout of 1m blacks, 1m moderates, 5m cons for the 7m total for passage of prop 8]

but what the hell do i know? i just read stuff like this:
http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?i=896
http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/jtf/JTF_LikelyVotersJTF.pdf

and make no mistake: joker's a libertarian who wipes his ass w/ benjamins, so come quarterly filing time he's a plate-passing, snake-juggling, strychnine-chugging, homeless kicking conservative

 

[Pesqueeb]

you cannot be both conservative & pro gay-marriage.

Your right, if your a conservative you can only be pro gay in airport bathroom stalls and the dark corners of your mega-church.

Um... I think we can all agree that I fall under the conservative category, and I am pro-gay rights. Hell, I lived with a gay guy in college. There are a lot of conservatives such as myself who want hands-off our lives and hands off our money.

And I don't think I'm the only lefty who wonders why its the governments concern about who's getting married at all.

 

[dante]

we're not just talking past ea other, you people are guano crazy.

once you understand the conservative platform gives no quarter to SSM (and they are *not* silent nor ambivalent on this issue), you will then understand conservatives voting against prop 8 were as rare as honest politicians. libertarians, centrists, independents, sure, but not conservatives.

if ever there were a dependable voting bloc on this issue, it's conservatives.

conclusion? conservatives made up the majority of aye votes for prop 8. is it so hard to believe all 5M of them showed up that day? [breakout of 1m blacks, 1m moderates, 5m cons for the 7m total for passage of prop 8]

but what the hell do i know? i just read stuff like this:
http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?i=896
http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/jtf/JTF_LikelyVotersJTF.pdf

and make no mistake: joker's a libertarian who wipes his ass w/ benjamins, so come quarterly filing time he's a plate-passing, snake-juggling, strychnine-chugging, homeless kicking conservative

Ok, so who exactly are these "conservatives" you speak of? Do they have a website? Where can I find their platform you mentioned? Because when I went to register, I didn't find the (C) option. When I go to vote, (except when I was in NY) I don't see a (C) after someone's name.

You're (intentionally? unintentionally?) conflating ideology with political leanings. Even beyond that, any polling of conservatives is always self-identifying, as in "do you consider yourself liberal, independent or conservative." You don't get to be the decider of who's conservative in a Potter-esque "I know a conservative when I see one".

So no, you don't actually know what you're talking about, since you provided two links as "proof" of what you read, when in fact neither actually backed up what you were trying to say. The first press release you sent out there is not one mention of your beloved "conservatives", only demographic groups. The second you sent out does talk about people self-describing themselves as "conservatives", but you won't accept that Joker, who is a young, self-described conservative (and probably a Republican) could possibly be against Prop 8.

 

[$tinkle]

Ok, so who exactly are these "conservatives" you speak of? Do they have a website? Where can I find their platform you mentioned? Because when I went to register, I didn't find the (C) option. When I go to vote, (except when I was in NY) I don't see a (C) after someone's name.

you have made an incorrect inference if you believe i'm putting forth an organized, political party, and not an overarching ideology.

so now i hope it's clear to you

next, be so kind as make every effort to identify & apply my qualifying words, like "mostly", "largely", and other non-absolute terms. the nuance found therein is not trivial

You're (intentionally? unintentionally?) conflating ideology with political leanings. Even beyond that, any polling of conservatives is always self-identifying, as in "do you consider yourself liberal, independent or conservative." You don't get to be the decider of who's conservative in a Potter-esque "I know a conservative when I see one".

is anyone else here reading this??? do you think the 2 are disjoint?

let's make this interesting: you get to throw out 10 common ideologies, and i get to tell you their political leanings. i'm sure i'll be much more correct than incorrect. at even money, you'll be broke rather quickly.

So no, you don't actually know what you're talking about, since you provided two links as "proof" of what you read, when in fact neither actually backed up what you were trying to say. The first press release you sent out there is not one mention of your beloved "conservatives", only demographic groups. The second you sent out does talk about people self-describing themselves as "conservatives", but you won't accept that Joker, who is a young, self-described conservative (and probably a Republican) could possibly be against Prop 8.

if the data are irrelevant, why do you suppose it was collected, organized, and then presented on a policy research site? rhetorical question, of course.

oh, it seems your flip-flop is showing: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3431961&postcount=19&highlight=You're+a+straight-up+libertarian

but since you're known to be full of snot, i'll take him on his word:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3069018&postcount=3
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3066972&postcount=9

2nd post is most interesting in the way he intentionally correlates his ideology to his political leanings - a herculean feat, apparently

 

[X3pilot]

I'm conservativeish and could care less who gets married to who. If 2 people can make it work together, who cares and who should care and with the other trouble CA has, this should be the least of their worries.

On a legal front, I believe that there should be some sort of judicial oversight, if nothing else to review for Constitutionality. Otherwise, if we simply made laws based on the desires of the majority, there would be an unenforceable and contradictory amount of laws.

At the very root, this country was founded on personal freedom, so as long as a person's personal choice doesn't endanger you or the public in general, live and let live.

 

[jonKranked]

to quote Epic Beard Guy on the subject of gay marriage:

"let the queers sperm on each other"

 

[rockofullr]

to quote Epic Beard Guy on the subject of gay marriage:

"let the queers sperm on each other"

The sperming will begin on Wednesday! (tentatively)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/12/california.same.sex.ruling/index.html

 

[sanjuro]

Um... I think we can all agree that I fall under the conservative category, and I am pro-gay rights. Hell, I lived with a gay guy in college.

Was it just a college romance? Maybe now that you can get married, you should give him a call...

There are a lot of conservatives such as myself who want hands-off our lives and hands off our money.

There are two elements to conservatism and gay rights:

1. Who cares? Except that DINK's have loads of cash, so as a stock broker, you definitely want their loot.

2. It is a political loser. Not that you are a Democrat-hater but focusing on the economy and other issues is a better way to throw brickbats at Obama/Pelosi than gay marriage.

 

[rockofullr]

The sperming will begin on Wednesday! (tentatively)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/12/california.same.sex.ruling/index.html

Sorry guys (and gays) put your wedding dresses back in the closet for now.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/08/17/cas-gay-marriage-yo-yo/