eh? I'm not talking about boiling fluid (never ever seen that happen on any brake), I'm just talking about the brakes losing significant amounts of power due to overheating the pads.
Ohhh the new Saint brakes....Maybe :-)
- Thread starter RMboy
- Start date
Rode Morzine black trails in the rain, so pretty sure I did crash into deep mud.
Cleaned the lever with the water hose afterwards, but it still got stuck. Had to flush the whole lever mechanics with silicone oil spray.
Unfortunately it seems you can't really disassemble anything on these levers apart from the plastic covers for the servowave rails.
edit: http://fstatic1.mtb-news.de/img/photos/5/5/8/6/_/large/PICT0254_1251303631.JPG seems like it can be disassembled by removing that axle pin
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@Socket: Is this an engineering problem, or does nobody really care?
It's just a heat dissipation issue. If the brake pads get too hot, the surface glazes over and their friction coefficient drops significantly. The pads get destroyed by heat long before you'll ever boil the fluid in your brakes. The M810 saints are an improvement over any other brakes I've used in that regard simply because the pads are quite large and the clamping power is enormous, so it takes more to wreck the pads and even when you do, they still have so much clamping force that you can actually stop with them. Burn a set of Juicies or M800 Saints out though and you simply will not stop.
The pads with cooling fins make a lot more sense on a DH bike than a trailbike anyway... hopefully Shimano have got those in the works too.
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Yeah glazing happens though I feel it less due to my low weight. Have you thought about unex heat dissipator pads or do they only protect your brake fluid from boiling?
btw. Ive seen that happen on my mates formula b4 (the ones that instead of loosing braking power stopped your wheel when you overheat them). How I miss good old days where parts were more reliable
As I pointed out in one of the first posts on this thread, these 'prototypes' are ripe for the heat sink pads, and I’d wager Shimano will do it. For starters, it actually works at cooling the pads themselves (which you, correctly, pointed out is the reason brakes 'fade' and being the first area that heats up it's a great idea), and from a marketing perspective it creates a gap between the Saints and its competitors. I'd expect the next gen Saints to get them.
If they stop as well as the current Saints, weigh less, and fade less, then I'll pick these up too. Haven't bought an Avid brake since the 0-ring fiasco, and my Formulas and Hopes cost a lot more.
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I thought i remembered reading that Shimano didn't want to go to a one piece caliper because "it would be TOO powerful", this was back when the current Saint (gen 2) was being released.
wouldnt a one peace lower weight and heat? Not to sure about the heat, but it would mean a more uniform expansion under heat build up, right? If they weigh less and have those cooling pads, I might have to sell my Formula Megas... 
A stiffer caliper (together with a stiffer hose and lever and lever housing) would mainly give you better modulation.
That's what I read in more than one article from brake manufacturers of the motorbike, automobile and bicycle industries.
Depends how you define better.
It would give more accurate modulation, but on an already powerful bike brake, it would narrow the window of modulation making the brake have less feel/modulation in reality. Making the brake more on off.
In short, Shimanno could go to a one piece caliper, and even braided lines, then change their lever piston size to make it have more modulation and be lighter, but then their levers wouldn't all be interchangeable.
I think you are right, but with more accurate modulation you can handle the stopping power better. Second thing is, that their servowave system or whatever seems to eat up a lot of the feedback, that you normally feel in a brake lever.
I had a Magura Gustav M before. Properly bled, accurately aligned and with a different hydraulic fluid than stock, they gave extremely good feedback about what happens at your brake's rotor. And with the right pads they had even more stopping power than a Shimano Saint, with a very tight 'window of modulation' as you call it.
But with that good feedback in the levers it was easier to control the power.
That Shimano has to stick to a certain lever piston size and rotor design (think of braking surface width) possibly limits their possibilities to get the best out of this brake.
Some say, that replacing the Saint levers with the new XT or XTR levers (like the ones on the proto brake), gives the brake a better, more consistant feel. I'm positive their engineers will give the already 'good' Saint an even better successor.
^ you can run the XT levers with the current Saint calipers? I heard of XTRs, but not XTs. If so, I might do this, as the one gripe I have with the current saints is the lever.
atrokz: With Shimano brakes you can use any part in any configuration. It all works!