Ohlins/Specialized Dirt Article
- Thread starter BigHitComp04
- Start date
Just how good are the poppet valves in Ohlins shocks compared to shims? Considering the main shim stack doesn't do too much in their shocks, I wonder if you're slightly better off with a custom shim stack in a Fox/Avalanche/RS when compared to a DB/Ohlins. It just seems like the poppet valves would be on/off compared to what's possible with a shim stack.
240? No idea. A lot over 200 though, and usually guys far north of 6' who run the stiffer rates to control pitching.
They work well for being cheap and less parts. They have their limits though.
I'm still waiting to see someone make a HSC adjuster like a KYB/Showa rear shock has, where the spring applies preload to the shim just below the clamp shim with a spacer, so it blows off and changes the pivot point of the stack. Really interesting effects.
Here is the deal. The whole Vital article has the reek of a PR piece. You can't cover a 120lb weight range and different riding styles with 7 rebound clicks without having huge steps between the clicks. It's impossible. It's like having a huge gear range without having large gaps between gears. This could be a fantastic shock and likely is. I just tire of the marketing BS that gets printed and that people will actually defend it.
BTW, I have complete confidence that you could take some base CCDB settings, read what the adjustments do and come away with a really good set up. It's not that hard.
I'm with Hacktastic on this one - there's a distinct lack of consistency in offering 24lb spring rate increments and then only offering 7 rebound settings. In a range of 300-550lb/in, you have 10 different spring rates, and only 7 settings to cater for them all. Beyond that, if you want your rebound slightly slower or faster than the recommended setup, you have no choice but to jump to the setting that is for an entire rate up or down.
I think the problem with both the CCDB and this new shock is that they are shooting for the extreme end of the spectrum. On one hand you have enough adjustment range for people to get lost, and on the other you are starting to limit fine tuning significantly.
Everything in moderation.
I think the problem with both the CCDB and this new shock is that they are shooting for the extreme end of the spectrum. On one hand you have enough adjustment range for people to get lost, and on the other you are starting to limit fine tuning significantly.
Everything in moderation.
Yeah though now you can put the CCDB on most frames and make it work and their manual and base settings are pretty idiot proof (and if you can't set it up, just go to a shop, you would probably have the same problem with a van r)
@William you really want it to be a genuine move to make their frames better. Looking at the article and how spesh works I clearly see it as a marketing move. I say it as an evil marketer myself.
The new super duper shock is the continuation of their positioning of the demo as the super high tech, high end macbook of a bike they have been doing since they reinvented the demo. The only hickup were Gwins results but if he still was winning they would have the whole package.
In my opinion the goal here is not to make demo owners ride better susp. It is to lower the number of them with terrible setups and through that reduce negative word of mouth. One thing that makes me wonder is if they will go for a lighter compression setup since most weekend warriors like that and it makes for a better parking lot test (of course within reason)
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At 220 with gear, and with the way I ride, I've always required a very stiff compression. Stock tunes usually do not do it for me, and my last DHX5.0 was custom shimmed. My last 888 was custom tuned to be stiffer. My current 36 is pro tuned to be stiffer (and it's still not stiff enough), and I run a CCDB out back as it seems to have a decent range.
So, I think there are more riders than you think who prefer very stiff compression tunes. Some people comment that my bike is 'unridable' to them due to stiffness, but it works for me. I can't be that different then a lot of people.
that's pretty much how it is with specialized. the only info you can publish is the info they spoon feed you, it's like a cult. I've heard that specialized is trying to get tom cruise to leave scientology and join them.
I mean, thats prob the case with these dealer/industry camps. They're like one of them info-cations that you get for timeshares. I suspect that if you publish an unfavorable article about the new product being showcased, you are not gonna get invited to subsequent ones.
I always take them with a grain of salt. They always come off like its the best thing since sliced bread.
I always take them with a grain of salt. They always come off like its the best thing since sliced bread.
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pretty much. for specialized (and trek, and a few of the other big names) dealer camps are now where they officially unveil the new stuff. they only go to interbike as a formality.
the problem is that the sizing / sales curve is a weird thing. the smallest and largest sizes of frames (for bikes that have xs, s, m l, xl, like xc bikes for example) are also built in the smallest quantities. by far most of your sales are gonna come in the middle of the sizing range.
the problem is more apparent in DH (a small niche of total mtb sales) where most companies don't even offer frames at the extreme sizing ends (XS, XL). so riders who truly need those sizes are pigeonholed into sizing up or sizing down, and also wind up with shocks that are too stiff or too soft. i have no idea if spesh runs different damping tunes per frame size, or if they are just swapping the stock spring rate.
in regards to this shock, nobody here does. it's just speculation that it's a one size fits all product - just because they didn't say there weren't different tunes doesn't mean there aren't.
What good would frame size specific tunes be to a 5'6" rider that weighs 200lbs or a 6'3" rider that weighs 180lbs?
those are "outliers" and fall in the bucket with people who need XS or XL dh frames. at least according to specialized.
trade shocks?
That's how modern web PR works (you would be surprised how much PR is influenced by ad sales). If you are a small medium you can't risk antagonizing the big guys. The only way to convey the message to your readers is to be less positive than on other products and count on the fact that the regulars will spot the difference in the details.
On the other hand the big sites and mags should feel responsible to be honest because very often if you want to be noticed you have to advertise there. That's why I like that pinkbike is a bit more honest lately, even if they also post ctrl-v press articles on their site. (web writers are also lazy but that's because they often have a quota of articles or PV they have to meet).
did everyone have the same frame to which you were comparing your settings to? if not, then its just purely coincidental and or people didnt know what they were doing to begin with
true but given all the minutia they did mention, such as the 24# increment super-precise spring rates, it would be odd to leave out an important feature like size specific tunes.
Given all the non-features that the bike industry touts as innovation ("fully customizable, infinitely adjustable retaining system!" to describe standard shoe laces), that oversight is almost unimaginable.
They wouldn't, but they'd be an improvement for 90% of riders probably.
Yeah exactly. Leverage curves vary wildly between frames. You'd need a wide range of settings to try to get the same feel for the same rider on different bikes. So those people probably had no idea what they were doing.
so far in this thread we've established:
-the bike industry thinks we're all idiots
-we think the bike industry are all idiots for thinking we're all idiots
-not everyone is in fact an idiot
-most people are idiots
-the bike industry thinks we're all idiots
-we think the bike industry are all idiots for thinking we're all idiots
-not everyone is in fact an idiot
-most people are idiots
The bike industry: Making mistakes with GREAT precision! And shiny colouerwayz!
how long until they start decreasing the # of gears again? "ya know? all these gears are great, but people can't figure fvck all about when to shift or how to set a cadence. let's drop back to 5 gears. and better yet, let's make it autoshifting"
Well the 2014 aluminum Demo 8 II comes with the micro drivetrain 
Teh less gears!
Teh less gears!
dont forget about 135mm rear ends being brought back..spesh is laughing at your 157mm rear endsWell the 2014 aluminum Demo 8 II comes with the micro drivetrain
HAHAHA remember whem rm toolerz said it was "prototype only, don't be silly". Now it's real, and just as dumb. You can pay for more stupid!Well the 2014 aluminum Demo 8 II comes with the micro drivetrain
Coz heel clearance. Hehehe
that would make too much sense. its probably some proprietary size no doubt
Like Foes?
Oh of course. I'm pretty sure their criteria will be as follows:
1) Damper body requiring a larger ID spring than anyone else makes
2) Wire diameter thickness requiring a larger OD spring than can be used on any other shock on the market due to interference with the reservoir.
3) Springrates offered in EXACTLY a 26 lb/in nominal interval, with a tolerance range of NO LESS than +/- 42 lbs/in.
4) Ground ends not set to have initial contact with the next coil, let's say a 1/8" gap with 8 active coils, so basically all springs will be the same rate up to the sag point (1" of deflection), then a large increase in rate once they touch, regardless of nominal rate.
5) Ends not ground flat with one another causing massive bowing and shock body wear.
6) Each end needs to have a different ID due to the spring seats.
7) Spring rates will be marked on each spring by colored dots on the flat ends, which will then rub off after the first ride.
8) "Patent pending". File malicious suit against any other spring manufacturer with NO basis at all.
9) Springs can ONLY be sourced from Ohlins in Sweden. And if the lead times/estimates are anything like they are for their MX spare parts....GFL.
That should be satisfactory for a final qual.
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pretty much so...but theyve been doing proprietary stuff for 14+ years now with their F1/XTD's 30mm axle (and 4 bolt rotors) and the dirtbike long Curnutt shocks/springs. Ohlins has an opportunity to make a spring size that is relatively close to other's design but that probably isnt in their best interest.
this thread is why i visit RM.
Its easier to make exciting bike sounding content when somebody else fills in focus grouped words into the spots on your madlibs.
Its easier to make exciting bike sounding content when somebody else fills in focus grouped words into the spots on your madlibs.
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I made an assumption in my explanation - yes, I was only interested in the settings of riders on the same frame as me.
But surely if its conceivable that someone would be so incompetent as to compare tunes of riders on different bikes then mtbers don't deserve adjustments of any sort on their bikes.
we really should put together a marketing mad libs for a fake new bike launch
Do it to support the local marketing job market. Spesh is sure to outsource them away from murcah! I won't buy frames with lower quality of copywriting!
Drunk cyclist has a good take on it. While the article is specifically about the epic, it pretty much applies to the whole line
https://drunkcyclist.com/2013/07/17/what-the-****-wednesday-specialized-epic-29er/
https://drunkcyclist.com/2013/07/17/what-the-****-wednesday-specialized-epic-29er/