[ire]

So....I'm watching Bloomberg and oil is at $90 per barrel. I have a question, are high gasoline prices partly due to the US dollar being so week? You hear a lot about global demand but no one every mentions the fact that our money isn't worth nearly as much. Looks like it won't be long before we hit $100

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i read in a somewhat serious analysis, the 3 digit barrier was goign to be broken next year....
gas already broke the $6 a gallon barrier here.

 

[ire]

i read in a somewhat serious analysis, the 3 digit barrier was goign to be broken next year....
gas already broke the $6 a gallon barrier here.

Yeah, but this is the U.S., we are supposed to have cheap gas prices and make the rest of the world suffer! I've read a few analysis about supply and price per barrel and they said the same thing....although they didn't think Turkey would be talking about invading Iraq either. If it hovers around 80-90 a barrel coming into thanks giving, it will top $100 in the run up to that holiday

 

[ohio]

Not that it's great news for us 'mericans, but oil is priced in dollars and the dollar has deflated ~30% over the last 3 years, so the real price of oil is not increasing as much as it seems.

 

[LordOpie]

They need to increase gas taxes and use the taxes for R&D.

Give tax breaks for using a vehicle for business purposes, but recreational/leisure use needs to be discouraged a little. Of course, poor public transit in some places won't help, but ya get where I'm going

 

[Transcend]

A lot of the problem is that OPEC nations sell with the US dollar and buy with the Euro. As you can imagine, that's a huge problem at the moment.

Also, as Ohio pointed out, the price isn't actually higher than it ever has been before. It is just under the threshold when adjusted for inflation.

The other large part of the problem is that no major oil refineries have been built in decades, and consumption has jumped to astronomical levels. The supply of crude isn't the problem, the supply of refined fuel is.

 

[MMike]

So what you're saying is, the US needs to invade a country that is rich in oil REFINERIES??

 

[Westy]

So what you're saying is, the US needs to invade a country that is rich in oil REFINERIES??

Iraq was not about oil. It was about a ****ing retard with too much power.

 

[DaveW]

The other large part of the problem is that no major oil refineries have been built in decades, and consumption has jumped to astronomical levels. The supply of crude isn't the problem, the supply of refined fuel is.

I remember hearing ages ago about how the oil companies gained US federal funding to dismantle several refineries in the southwest citing that there was a massive oversupply effecting prices, and they were hard done by so the Gummint should pay them to shut some of the refineries down?

Have they post Katrina been back cap in hand asking for subsidies to rebuild? No? Guess they like high prices then........

 

[ire]

So what you're saying is, the US needs to invade a country that is rich in oil REFINERIES??

Duh, I think we should take over Greenland, I bet they have lots of oil refineries.

With what Transcend said, I had read that somewhere...that refineries can't refine the crude quick enough and in the U.S. refineries cost a lot and are hard to get the permits to build. I'm in favor of a larger gas tax, but that additional money needs to go to public transit on the local level (so the funds would need to be dispersed to cities/counties). I came from a small town that had horrible urban sprawl, I lived in town and there were almost no stores.....instead they were between 4-7 miles away outside of city limits.

 

[$tinkle]

Iraq was not about oil. It was about a ****ing retard with too much power.

too much power, and not with an original thought. we can

how bush blatantly lifted gore's talking points:

and of course i already pointed out how the next war will be about oil with hillary at the helm.

move along...nothing to see here...

 

[N8 v2.0]

So what you're saying is, the US needs to invade a country that is rich in oil REFINERIES??

i dare u yankee sumabishes to invade Loozieanna....

 

[SPINTECK]

They need to increase gas taxes and use the taxes for R&D.

Give tax breaks for using a vehicle for business purposes, but recreational/leisure use needs to be discouraged a little. Of course, poor public transit in some places won't help, but ya get where I'm going

You make too much sense. Think you live in Europe or something? Do you think the our goverment wants to discourage oil usage?? We could have hydrogen now, ethanol stations at the very least, but our governtment won't promote it and the private sector wants profits based on the current business model. Oil companies will not put in ethanal pumps at their stations. We all know Bush's oil ties with his family back to at least WW2.

 

[SPINTECK]

A lot of the problem is that OPEC nations sell with the US dollar and buy with the Euro.

This is very true, but it's part of a larger picture of American economic emperialism buy forcing other countries to buy our inflated dollars or any and all oil transactions. First guy who wanted to change to allow oil bought w/euro?? Saddam- true.

This is also why gas is so high in europe, to discourage their citizens from conspicuous consumption of oil so the country doesn't have to buy as many inflated american dollars for oil. THus, our country wants to promote the consumption and grow our currency.


Wait to see what China and Russia does- russia already nationalized all their oil, which is another debate altogether. They are threatening to move away for a us dollar based trade system.

 

[SPINTECK]

To finish the thought:

By: John Amato @ 11:42 AM - PST
If you don’t like SUVs, stop buying them, gotdammit
GreatScat!

Pollution and increasing dependence on foreign oil are good reasons to continue development of fuel efficient, environmentally friendly transportation. The auto industry has long had the technology to do just that, and has worked continuously on further development of such vehicles.

Just this past week alone I’ve seen enough anti-auto industry blogging that I feel forced to post on it myself — but, I’m here to tell you that it’s not fair. Is this all reactionary to the rising prices at the gas pumps? If so, why don’t I see any anger directed at the big oil companies — President Cheney’s for instance? Why hasn’t there been an oil refinery built in over 30 years? Wouldn’t that help keep up with the demand for gas? [answer: d-uh, yes]

Low oil prices are good for the consumer and the world economy. Low oil prices act as a check on inflation.

But there is another side–the U.S. oil industry does not prosper during periods of low oil prices. Oil industry workers lose their jobs, many small wells are permanently sealed, and the exploration for new oil sources drops off.

In 1982 we had the ability to Refine 18.62 Million barrels per day, today we can refine 16.76 Million barrels per day.

In 1981 we had 324 refineries today we have 149.

I actually read a post the other day where the author attempts to blame GM’s financial problems on the fact that the cars it builds run on gasoline. I don’t know how that person would explain Ford Motors Co.’s luck at pulling its company up from financial difficulties, and the fact that they have had to extend their production this year to keep up with the supply of [in particular] the new Mustang. They, too, run on gasoline. More…

http://www.crooksandliars.com/index.php?s=refinery

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

well, for those pro-etanol.. it does come with a lot of liabilities.

prices of cereals have skyrocketed around here, with all the ensuing complications, since ethanol making drives prices up and changes crops. the solution might not be much better than the problem when you factor the social costs for the rest of the world.

 

[jimmydean]

well, for those pro-etanol.. it does come with a lot of liabilities.

prices of cereals have skyrocketed around here, with all the ensuing complications, since ethanol making drives prices up and changes crops. the solution might not be much better than the problem when you factor the social costs for the rest of the world.

The trick to ethanol is corn can be re-grown. Oil takes a while. Also, at least hear there are more farmers out of work due to overgrowth than growth. So if those farmers grow something you can use for fuel, then everyone wins.

I know it's not like that everywhere, but it sure is here.

 

[SPINTECK]

The trick to ethanol is corn can be re-grown. Oil takes a while. Also, at least hear there are more farmers out of work due to overgrowth than growth. So if those farmers grow something you can use for fuel, then everyone wins.

I know it's not like that everywhere, but it sure is here.

It's definitely a step in the right direction. The only bad thing is farmers that don't need it get the money b/c they have better lobbyists. Corn has a strong lobby and makes ethanol, but it will increase the price of diary. But sugar and switch grass are more efficient, but might not get approved b/c of politics.

You can actually get a permit and distill ethanol on your property (as long as it's not for consumption) and add it to your car (all cars up to 15% and many cars easily up to 85%).

 

[jimmydean]

It's definitely a step in the right direction. The only bad thing is farmers that don't need it get the money b/c they have better lobbyists. Corn has a strong lobby and makes ethanol, but it will increase the price of diary. But sugar and switch grass are more efficient, but might not get approved b/c of politics.

You can actually get a permit and distill ethanol on your property (as long as it's not for consumption) and add it to your car (all cars up to 15% and many cars easily up to 85%).

A good friend down the street has a bio setup and has a permit to sell to local farmers for $1.75 a gallon. He doesn't make much off it, but it covers his costs to fuel his truck/tractors/RV and a few friends. I hope to have a diesel truck next year to run it.

 

[SPINTECK]

that's the way to go if you drive the truck, some property and have the time to make or filter your own fuel.

Is biodiesel the same or do you need a heater like the kits that burn used cooking oil?

 

[$tinkle]

There're nearly 1200 gas stations in the u.s. where you can fill up on E85 ethanol fuel.
The number of stations offering E85 is expected to double in a little over a year as service stations are being offered incentives from Government and Ethanol Industry grants up to $30,000 to install E85 Fuel pumps.

 

[ire]

hhhhmmm, we've been wanting to buy a house with some land.....maybe we should buy a house with 20 acres and raise corn, we could even have a baseball field and hope old Shoeless would come out and play ball.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

The trick to ethanol is corn can be re-grown. Oil takes a while. Also, at least hear there are more farmers out of work due to overgrowth than growth. So if those farmers grow something you can use for fuel, then everyone wins.

I know it's not like that everywhere, but it sure is here.

my point is that ethanol requires corn.

this drives up the prices of corn, as well as other grains, since farmers will start to shift from other crops, such as wheat, etc, etc.. which could probably reduce the supply and raise prices on other cereals.

this will affect the budgets of the poorest people on earth, for whom grains represent a BIG % of their family budget.

wheat price is at record levels right now, in peru for example, consumption among the poorest is declining fast and there are some concerns about the long term effects . imagine the larger scale consequences if
corn demand picks up.

 

[$tinkle]

my point is that ethanol requires corn.

hey assbag, what about bagasse?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

hey assbag, what about bagasse?

duh!...
constraining other variables, the effect pretty much remains for most of the agrarian sources for ethanol.... it´d take a ****load of crops to replace oil.

raises prices of whatever you are using.. or creates the need for bigger arable land, which isnt very good for the enviroment either.

 

[Reactor]

If we had the same fuel efficiency as Japan we wouldn't be importing foreign oil at all, or turning crops into ethanol.

 

[1453]

If we had the same fuel efficiency as Japan we wouldn't be importing foreign oil at all, or turning crops into ethanol.

you like living in tiny apartments and go to work by having train-station attendants stuffing you(literally) into train cars like compressed sardines?

that's how they achieve great efficiency, which frankly makes life kinda sucks. but hey, if it floats your boat good for you. But I suspect folks out in Arizona don't have much to worry about tiny apartments and crowded subway trains.

 

[bohorec]

you like living in tiny apartments and go to work by having train-station attendants stuffing you(literally) into train cars like compressed sardines?

that's how they achieve great efficiency, which frankly makes life kinda sucks. but hey, if it floats your boat good for you. But I suspect folks out in Arizona don't have much to worry about tiny apartments and crowded subway trains.

So fuel economy in automobiles depends on living in tiny apartments and going to work by train?

 

[1453]

So fuel economy in automobiles depends on living in tiny apartments and going to work by train?

do you think that the bulk of our oil imports are used to power automobiles?

 

[DaveW]

I think you'll find the Japanese don't use much in the way of home heating oil either.

 

[valve bouncer]

I think you'll find the Japanese don't use much in the way of home heating oil either.

A lot of places use kerosene heaters. We use our air conditioner heater but rarely as it doesn't get that cold here and our house is well insulated. I don't think 1453 knows much about Japan if he thinks that tiny apartments and crowded subways are reality for most in Japan.
The reason Japan does so well on that mpg chart posted is because the tax regime favours small engines so much that (at a guess) 25% of all cars on the road are what are called "kei-cars", that is their engine is 660cc or less and 47kw or less. I'll probably be getting one myself next year.

 

[DaveW]

Yeah been eyeing up one of those Mitsubish Icar's myself.
Good for around town/commuting and keep the Legnum for longer trips.

 

[ire]

It hit over $90 per barrel again
http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/26/markets/oil.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007102609

Everyone is fearing whats going to happen with Turkey and Iran

 

[MarinR00]

My question is, what the hell is wrong with U.S. Automakers? Even with the writing on the wall, imported cars kicking our ass as more and more people looking for more fuel efficient cars (probably to help their pocket books more than the environment), and yet US cars are still the size of tanks and have about the same fuel economy as well.

Though I should talk, I have a Ford Sporttrac, though I am looking to trade it on, on something a little nicer to the polar ice caps and not so detrimental to my savings. Some sort of hybrid SUV… oh wait… there are like two.

I hate to say it, but the US doesn’t have a clue when it comes to being fuel efficient.

It will be nice for our kids to learn about snow on the history channel.

Speaking of oil, when I was operating in western Iraq in ’05, there were places in the middle of the desert where oil was bubbling up from the ground. I should have filled up some barrels of the stuff.

 

[ohio]

Great cover article in Fast Company this month. Check it out:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

 

[ire]

My question is, what the hell is wrong with U.S. Automakers? Even with the writing on the wall, imported cars kicking our ass as more and more people looking for more fuel efficient cars (probably to help their pocket books more than the environment), and yet US cars are still the size of tanks and have about the same fuel economy as well.

Though I should talk, I have a Ford Sporttrac, though I am looking to trade it on, on something a little nicer to the polar ice caps and not so detrimental to my savings. Some sort of hybrid SUV… oh wait… there are like two.

I hate to say it, but the US doesn’t have a clue when it comes to being fuel efficient.

It will be nice for our kids to learn about snow on the history channel.

Speaking of oil, when I was operating in western Iraq in ’05, there were places in the middle of the desert where oil was bubbling up from the ground. I should have filled up some barrels of the stuff.

Part of it is the fact that they still sell the big gas guzzlers. There was initially a drop in sales, but after the sticker shock of gasoline wore off sales picked back up. Whats been killing these companies isn't sales, its admin costs related to producing the cars.

 

[DaveW]

Great cover article in Fast Company this month. Check it out:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

Interesting project but at the end of the day it's still an ugly pointless hummer!

 

[ohio]

Interesting project but at the end of the day it's still an ugly pointless hummer!

Missing the point. The mindset in the US is that higher efficiency always means (unacceptable) compromises. This is proof otherwise.

And if you can achieve those numbers with an H2, AND increase power, imagine what you can do with a normal passenger car at the same power level.

 

[DaveW]

Define "unacceptable"..... An extra $100k in price?

 

[ire]

Define "unacceptable"..... An extra $100k in price?

I like some hybrids, but this is my beef with em...you pay more and it takes a looooong time to recoup that money. I know if gas gets to be $4 or $5 a gallon you make your money back sooner.