[Sir_Crackien]

post personal experiences on the bike, revision data, whos riding it, reviews..........

sicklines review
http://www.sicklines.com/reviews/2007-mongoose-ec-d/

MTBR reviews
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Downhill_Full_Suspension/product_126695.shtml

 

[ÆX]

good ride IMO, hight pivot.
doesn't need a roller though
B/C the bb moves back under you
with the wheel.

 

[ÆX]

look at the kick back on a morewood
http://www.sicklines.com/review/ndiza/geometry.html

then watch the cranks on the EC
http://www.sicklines.com/review/ecd/geometry.html

thanks for posting this kind of stuff sicklines.
its what people need to see to clear the HYPE!

 

[ire]

I owned one and liked it. Nice ride, pedals fantastic and its a killer bike for the money. It didn't make me as fast as EC though, I was disappointed

 

[dhmike]

my only review is i went dh with my friend mike yesterday and he just got one and it looks nice. my two cents in for the reviews.

 

[jamesdc]

I have not actually ridden one but i have put in alot of time on a black diamond triple, the suspension design pedal really well but it doesn't absorb bumps and rocks as well as others. Also the pivots on the black diamond ovalized BAD, there was alot of play in it that could not be fixed without a new frame. I think the same thing will happen on the ECD because its basically the same design made out of the same aluminum.

 

[DHS]

so its a new version of a URT?

 

[OGRipper]

so its a new version of a URT?

That's one way of looking at it, but the way the linkage works, the bb doesn't move as much as it would on a urt.

 

[w00dy]

That's one way of looking at it, but the way the linkage works, the bb doesn't move as much as it would on a urt.

That's splitting hairs.

 

[DHS]

That's one way of looking at it, but the way the linkage works, the bb doesn't move as much as it would on a urt.

URT, worst suspension design ever.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

well on that note you could say that the old gt dh-i was a urt and a few other designs that are fairly praised today

 

[Dogboy]

It's not a URT at all.

 

[DHS]

well on that note you could say that the old gt dh-i was a urt and a few other designs that are fairly praised today

the dhi was close. but done correctly. the bb wasn't moving with the rear wheel. the dog bone was keeping it floating. so what it moved maybe 1inch total.

i played with a ecd frame yesterday. you're legs are still take a punishment of all that travel. of course it pedals well. you're connected to the rear wheel. not pushing up and down on the suspension.

 

[ChrisKring]

look at the kick back on a morewood
http://www.sicklines.com/review/ndiza/geometry.html

then watch the cranks on the EC
http://www.sicklines.com/review/ecd/geometry.html

thanks for posting this kind of stuff sicklines.
its what people need to see to clear the HYPE!

That animation can mislead people. In one example, the wheel is fixed and the BB moves. In the other example it is the opposite. Look at the angle change if anything and I am not sure if that is even relative. Furthermore, looking at pedal kickback in a static state is misleading. If they were XC bikes being pedalled uphill, pedal kickback is more important. However, in DH where you are more likely to take hits while coasting it is less important.

You really need to look at more than just what this software. How about driving force? Most people will not know how to clearly post process the data that the software outputs.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

amen chirskring! the data sets in those links don't match at all. its showing 2 completely different measurements

also i don't really care if my legs take a beating i currently ride a hardtail DH and i'm more worried about how well the wheels stay on the ground anyway.

 

[SVPPB]

I've ridden it, I thought it was a little flexy laterally in the rear.
You're a big guy like me, it didn't dig it too much when I hard stuffed it into corners on the slide, then hoping to torque it out.

But the price is hard to argue with.

 

[JeffD]

Coincidentally I just switched from a DHI to an ECD (loves me some department store rigs). Here's how I'd compare the two:

Stiffness: DHI is noticeably stiffer than the ECD's rear end, although at 210ish, I can't say it's an issue.

Jumping: ECD jumps more to my liking - even with a 64-65HA, the cockpit feels more centered and makes it easier to jump with your weight over the front whee ala a BMX bike. Easier to nosedive in to backsides and pump.

Turning: ECD turns quicker than the DHI in bermed and slower speed turns. DHI feels better in long sweepers, I suspect b/c of the lengthening effect of the ECD's high pivot. DHI handles hard hit, square off turns better *if* in the short rear end setting. Overall, I like the cornering of the ECD better, even though my notes make it sound like a tossup.

Pedaling - DHI pedals better than most big rigs but compared to an ECD, forget it. ECD is by far the best pedaling bike I've ridden. Mostly due to the suspension design but the aforementioned centered position is better for sprinting in than the typical off-the-back feel of most DH bikes.

Bumps: DHI is much plusher. But then again, in the long rear end setting it rides pretty damn plow compared to most rigs. ECD is definitely rougher than most bikes on high speed, repetitive hits. However, I feel like I'm able to ride lighter and skip over more stuff again because of the centered, attack cockpit position. The DHI (and most bikes) make me feel like I have to lean back and rely on the bike more.

Hope this helps somebody out there.

 

[RaID]

Ive done a few runs on my mates ECD so i can share some views. I ride sunday so thats my main comparison.

Overall its a very fun bike.

Youre positioned more ontop of the bike rather than within the cockpit. I rode the medium and i ride a medium sunday but i found the cockpit quite short on the ECD. It generally felt more unstable at highspeeds compared to the sunday. Because of this the bike felt very manuaverable in the tight tracks we have here. I didnt think it pedalled as well as the sunday but it wasnt anything major. Suspension was plush took well to bigger and smaller hits. Its definately not a plough bike though. I didnt feel any major braking issues. Definately stable in the air and well balanced.

Overall its not a bike for me but a very good performer for the right person.

However quiet a few guys run them over here, and numerous people have had issues with the frame developing small cracks right around the shock mount area. This usually has occured around the 9-12 month mark of the bikes use. In my mates case it happened right on 12 months. His use is what I would describe typical of a DH bike. A weekly shuttle session and maybe 5-6 race weekends during the year. No hucking just general DH use.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

To some of the comments on the suspension design, remember that this isn't a NEW design, this is how they've always been doing it! So we won't be needing to "watch" for frames stretching, etc, they've been on the market for what, 3-4 years? So any major failures should already be out there and aware of. I've heard one guy saying he is still riding one of ECs first ECDs and having no issues at all. And others claiming they broke theirs riding around the parking lot. ? I know in my quest for a new ride before getting a Mongoose I found WAAAAY more broken Specialized frames, more cracked Bottle Rocket frames and more broken Intense frames and on and on. I am actually pretty surprised at the sheer numbers I was finding from "major" companies that are still noted as being "the best" by the majority! I understand that the big companies have more frames out there, thus more countable failures...
I'm now on a Black Diamond Triple and I'm loving it, despite the lack of real ride time on it thanks to a half an inch of ice and 17 degree temps, but I'm pretty damn happy with it. Much more so than the Demo 8 and the Avy equipped Enduro SX I just got off of. Hoping I've finally found the bike I've been looking/waiting for.
I would like to see Mongoose COMPLETELY separate ANY and ALL similarities between the high-end(real) bike line and the department store line. From colors and decals on up. And I would like to see the highenders pulled out of Pacific's welding center. The good ones deserve more attention. But I'm just being a baby...

 

[SteezyWeezy]

the bike is awesome. as some have said, it isnt a plough bike, makes you think harder about your lines. the only problem the frame has is the hardware. this is the part of the frame mongoose skimped on. ive had mine for a couple of months now, and after the second or third day of dh the pivot hardware bent. they designed it so there are two metal sleeves that thread over a threaded shaft. well, the shaft isnt long enough to fill the entire insides of the sleeves, leaving part of them hollow and prone to crimping.

love the bike besides that

 

[DirtEveryDay]

I'm assuming it's the same for the BDs? Is there a fix for it? I'll see it all when I tear it apart for powdercoating in a few days, and get my own ideas/opinions. But if there's already a fix that's working that would be good to know!

 

[SteezyWeezy]

I'm assuming it's the same for the BDs? Is there a fix for it? I'll see it all when I tear it apart for powdercoating in a few days, and get my own ideas/opinions. But if there's already a fix that's working that would be good to know!

i wouldnt know about the bd's, but you can usually tell if they are bent if you loosen and tighten the hardware and the linkage moves
ive heard the mongoose team uses either ti or hardened steel sleeves, not confirmed though. a local here also went to a hardware store and got a longer threaded shaft to fill the sleeves all the way, that seemed to work and i think thats what ill be doing once i get a new set of hardware

 

[RaID]

To some of the comments on the suspension design, remember that this isn't a NEW design, this is how they've always been doing it! So we won't be needing to "watch" for frames stretching, etc, they've been on the market for what, 3-4 years? So any major failures should already be out there and aware of. I've heard one guy saying he is still riding one of ECs first ECDs and having no issues at all. And others claiming they broke theirs riding around the parking lot. ? I know in my quest for a new ride before getting a Mongoose I found WAAAAY more broken Specialized frames, more cracked Bottle Rocket frames and more broken Intense frames and on and on. I am actually pretty surprised at the sheer numbers I was finding from "major" companies that are still noted as being "the best" by the majority! I understand that the big companies have more frames out there, thus more countable failures...
I'm now on a Black Diamond Triple and I'm loving it, despite the lack of real ride time on it thanks to a half an inch of ice and 17 degree temps, but I'm pretty damn happy with it. Much more so than the Demo 8 and the Avy equipped Enduro SX I just got off of. Hoping I've finally found the bike I've been looking/waiting for.
I would like to see Mongoose COMPLETELY separate ANY and ALL similarities between the high-end(real) bike line and the department store line. From colors and decals on up. And I would like to see the highenders pulled out of Pacific's welding center. The good ones deserve more attention. But I'm just being a baby...

I was just stating what the experiences of my riding buddy was along with other fellow racers ive talked to here. I think its great little bike but it still has some issues which i think ppl should be aware off

 

[DirtEveryDay]

And I agree fully with you. Just pointing out that any MAJOR failures SHOULD have been discovered by now. Hopefully I'm not the guy who finds it! And in debate of my own post, even though they've been out for years, technically they ARE a relatively new bike. Not a lot of riders on them yet. I hope that changes! I know a lot of the better known shops will be carrying Goose for 08. THAT should mean more riders, more input, and more readily available parts! And despite the cheap, kick ass build kits, I would like to see frame-only options.
I'm gonna send a link to this thread to Mongoose....let the people be heard!

 

[RaID]

Totally Agree. You would have though they learned to get the areas around the shock mounts right considering the previous frame was cracking eventually in the same area.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Well, even the revered Bottle Rockets are starting to pop up busted here lately. Everything breaks, but as I stated in another thread, how many bikes should you really come back broken in similar ways before you halt production and fix the issue before turning them loose again? I, personally, haven't heard or read anything about broken shock mounts until this thread. I HAVE heard about the stretched linkage eyes and weak hardware, which is what I'm attributing the stretched eyes to. I'm guessing that what is breaking the shock mounts is loose bolts/ovaled mount holes. All it takes is a little slack to snap a mount. Like popping a clutch versus releasing it slowly. And I think(hope!) stronger hardware will eliminate the stretched linkages. That actually might hold true...if the guy riding ECs old ECD around still, I'm bettin they upgraded his hardware for race when EC still had it. Just a theory...

 

[miuan]

I was considering the ECD and ended up with the Izimu. My major concerns were the bearings, and the rear dropouts that have to be replaced when you break your mech hanger. Stupid.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

miuan the rear dropout concern has pasted as they have changed the rear drop out. the bearing issue is the only one that i worried about at all, that and the rear end stiffness.

can anyone on here comment on the newer dhi's and the ecd?? just wondering if the new dhi rides different than the older one.

 

[ÆX]

That animation can mislead people. In one example, the wheel is fixed and the BB moves. In the other example it is the opposite. Look at the angle change if anything and I am not sure if that is even relative. Furthermore, looking at pedal kickback in a static state is misleading. If they were XC bikes being pedalled uphill, pedal kickback is more important. However, in DH where you are more likely to take hits while coasting it is less important.

You really need to look at more than just what this software. How about driving force? Most people will not know how to clearly post process the data that the software outputs.

you are right, i don't know if the measurements are right.
but it a slow rock garden pedal feedback is still a large issue.

i just like the program in that it allows people to see what
we talk about on here.

 

[ire]

Coincidentally I just switched from a DHI to an ECD (loves me some department store rigs). Here's how I'd compare the two:

Stiffness: DHI is noticeably stiffer than the ECD's rear end, although at 210ish, I can't say it's an issue.

Jumping: ECD jumps more to my liking - even with a 64-65HA, the cockpit feels more centered and makes it easier to jump with your weight over the front whee ala a BMX bike. Easier to nosedive in to backsides and pump.

Turning: ECD turns quicker than the DHI in bermed and slower speed turns. DHI feels better in long sweepers, I suspect b/c of the lengthening effect of the ECD's high pivot. DHI handles hard hit, square off turns better *if* in the short rear end setting. Overall, I like the cornering of the ECD better, even though my notes make it sound like a tossup.

Pedaling - DHI pedals better than most big rigs but compared to an ECD, forget it. ECD is by far the best pedaling bike I've ridden. Mostly due to the suspension design but the aforementioned centered position is better for sprinting in than the typical off-the-back feel of most DH bikes.

Bumps: DHI is much plusher. But then again, in the long rear end setting it rides pretty damn plow compared to most rigs. ECD is definitely rougher than most bikes on high speed, repetitive hits. However, I feel like I'm able to ride lighter and skip over more stuff again because of the centered, attack cockpit position. The DHI (and most bikes) make me feel like I have to lean back and rely on the bike more.

Hope this helps somebody out there.

I actually liked my DHI better than my EC-DH....for some reason I have a love affair with the DHI

 

[SteezyWeezy]

And I think(hope!) stronger hardware will eliminate the stretched linkages. That actually might hold true...if the guy riding ECs old ECD around still, I'm bettin they upgraded his hardware for race when EC still had it. Just a theory...

i think thats exactly it, new hardware and the problems will be fixed

 

[dw]

look at the kick back on a morewood
http://www.sicklines.com/review/ndiza/geometry.html

then watch the cranks on the EC
http://www.sicklines.com/review/ecd/geometry.html

thanks for posting this kind of stuff sicklines.
its what people need to see to clear the HYPE!

How do you know that the calculation is correct in the bikechecker? All I see is a graphic with no supporting data. Specialized has been doing that for years to support their cause..

 

[dw]

That animation can mislead people. In one example, the wheel is fixed and the BB moves. In the other example it is the opposite. Look at the angle change if anything and I am not sure if that is even relative. Furthermore, looking at pedal kickback in a static state is misleading. If they were XC bikes being pedalled uphill, pedal kickback is more important. However, in DH where you are more likely to take hits while coasting it is less important.

You really need to look at more than just what this software. How about driving force? Most people will not know how to clearly post process the data that the software outputs.

Yup!

To add to what you wrote, when you are coasting, your freewheel is overspinning, and it takes a very fast hit to engage it and feel any kind of pedal feedback. Add into the mix that "pedal feedback" is one of the most overanalyzed, misconstrued, and over-marketed features in bicycle suspension. I think its mostly a holdover to back in the days when it was "commonly accepted knowledge" that pedal feedback caused suspension bob. Then we found out the world is not flat.. heh

 

[DownCycles_Stef]

I'll have to give my support for the EC-D. I rode one all last season, and especially if you are looking for an affordable bike to race on, it kills. As for the major problems that have been discussed, as you know the dropout problem has been resolved. In addition, there were several people who were breaking the main pivot and BB/Shock pivot bolt. This was because the same bolt being spec'd for Canaan's & Teocali's was being used for all FreeDrive models. The new 2008 models are no longer using the lighter & softer bolts. Both the Black Diamond and EC-D bikes are now using a better hardened bolt.

As far as my experience riding on it went, it was amazing. I'll admit if you are a big guy, there is a little side-to-side flex in the back, but nothing to complain about. It pedals amazing, I was never tired and always felt like I was on an XC rig that was 10lbs overweight. As far as suspension quality goes, it felt good off bigger moves when the suspension ramped up a bit. Definatley didn't handle medium sized stuff 100% but wasn't bad. I found that if you rode it like an Orange or any other single pivot bike should be ridden (i.e. gapping as much stuff as possible) it felt perfect. For the money it's really really hard for me to justify being on anything more expensive. Even if it was a bit more, I loved the way it rode and hope lively and playful it felt, I'd probably choose it over a number of other bikes on the DH market right now.

 

[Zutroy]

i think thats exactly it, new hardware and the problems will be fixed

Yeah the hardware is the problem. Put higher quality stuff in there it they don't get messed up. It's one of, if not the best pedaling bike i've been on even with a romic.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

The new 2008 models are no longer using the lighter & softer bolts. Both the Black Diamond and EC-D bikes are now using a better hardened bolt.

good to here they fixed it, but for now they need to answer the damn phone and fix MY bike

 

[ChrisKring]

Yup!

To add to what you wrote, when you are coasting, your freewheel is overspinning, and it takes a very fast hit to engage it and feel any kind of pedal feedback. Add into the mix that "pedal feedback" is one of the most overanalyzed, misconstrued, and over-marketed features in bicycle suspension. I think its mostly a holdover to back in the days when it was "commonly accepted knowledge" that pedal feedback caused suspension bob. Then we found out the world is not flat.. heh

The overspinning free wheel was what I was trying to say. It's so hard to explain statics and dynamics on the internet without diagrams while on breaks during my green belt training.

DW: thank you for clarifying and adding.

Everyone else: please try to create a math model of a design yourself. This is easy to do in MathCad or even Excel. When you create the model yourself, you will have a better understanding of the results and their shortcomings.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Hey, just another quick note of input.
I got my first REAL quality time on my BD3 tonight, about 3 hours of pedaling around a pasture covered in deep grass and ice. SHOULD have been an XC nightmare. With a soft 66 and 2ply Michies that thing went everywhere. I'm not sure I can express my elation well enough. People always say "Oh...it pedals great, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH..." But seriously, no fugging sh*t, I never knew you could actually tell a difference! Like REALLY! My last bike was an 06 Enduro SX with an Avalanche Chubie shock on it. I'd heard rumors and mumblings about the hailed FSR suspension not being the greatest for climbing(not sure why Spec wants to sue everyone who gets near it?). When I put the Avy on it got a little worse, but I just went with it, learn how to crank on the bounce, put your ass into it and bounce away. I just assumed that there were varying degrees, but that ALL BIKES BOUNCE when pedaling. The best one I've had was my Demo 8. It did pretty well, actually. Before that was a Yeti AS-X that I could actually feel the chain growth on as well as the kickback that some say is a myth. But my SX was the worst, by far. Getting on this Goose is phenomenal, to say the least. I love it. I just didn't know how much until tonight! I AM having some problems hopping it over things though, need to mess with stuff a bit more. Used to being able to preload the Avy and rip up hard and she floatededed over everything. The Goose just manuals. Could have been the waist high grass and ankle deep ice and snow...

But what Downcycles Stef was spot on: You just don't get tired.

 

[JeffD]

Buddy of mine has a BD3 and for whatever reason, the high pivot/rear lengthening can be felt much mor eon it than the ECD imo. This could explain your diffculty bunnyhopping it (plus, my past FSRs were always easy as hell to bunnyhop and manual)

 

[Sir_Crackien]

so i'm sure that it has become fairly obvious that i'm looking to buy a dh bike in the near future (no its not my first one). i have mainly been looking into the mongoose and the 2008 gt dhi pro (the less expensive model.

don't tell me that those bike suck as i know all ready that they don't also don't suggest other bike as i work at a shop where i can EP these bikes for a really good price.

please just tell me that i'm not a fool for thinking that the ECD will be a better bike than the DHI pro.

i ride on the eastcoast mainly at wintergreen and snowshoe. i will not be riding this bike all that much as i have a job that keeps me too busy so the bike shouldn't get too beat.