[Sir_Crackien]

but trails rides do need a super beefy rear rim. they drill the hole to save weight and those hole don't weakin the rim that much at all. just because trails are all finess like doesn't mean that they are not hard on their equipment because nothing is farther from the truth. both rear wheel and cranks are brutalized in trials.

btw mike i have been riding trials for about 2 month and i live it. its by far the most rewarding type of riding. also its not too expensive to get into.

one of the main reasons i started riding trials is because there is no trials at all down here

btw did you get my pm??

 

[SBDHrida]

sorry that I started the whole Gamut vs E13 debate. I never meant to discredit the E13 gaurds, as I agree that they are an incredible feat of engineering, and pretty much revolutionized the chainguid industry. I was simply offering a suggestion for a somewhat lighter chainguide that was predrilled, and therefore was not structurally compramised by the drilling. Also, as far as the installation, I think I exagerated quite a bit when I said the the Gamut was "way easier to install." I have never found a e13 guide difficult to install.

 

[dexter]

i have been riding and racing drilled out and filled down e13 guides for about n4 years now and have never had a problem. now on my street bike i would never touch the guide or bash. i tend to not really hit things that often and cant wait for anew lg1

 

[MikeD]

sorry that I started the whole Gamut vs E13 debate. I never meant to discredit the E13 gaurds, as I agree that they are an incredible feat of engineering, and pretty much revolutionized the chainguid industry. I was simply offering a suggestion for a somewhat lighter chainguide that was predrilled, and therefore was not structurally compramised by the drilling. Also, as far as the installation, I think I exagerated quite a bit when I said the the Gamut was "way easier to install." I have never found a e13 guide difficult to install.

Wow, that was a quick assimilation.

DW, when is E13 going to come out with an armor and apparel line like this:

?

 

[punkassean]

does anyone know the system weight for DRS w/36t bash?

I am contemplating ditching my DRS and going to an LG1 with a 36T guidering. If I can drop some weight it would help with not having a granny ring and in general simplify my setup. I only wish E.13 made a 34T guidering!

 

[jonKranked]

but trails rides do need a super beefy rear rim.

but not as beefy as you'd think (unless you are a horribly unsmooth rider). someone already made the point, trials riders use wide rims b/c they are wider and provide better stability, not so much b/c they need the strength strength. (if you're smooth enough then sun rhyno lites will suffice). And they are drilled to get the weight back down to something reasonable. Alex dx-32 rims drilled are very common for a trials'er on a budget (thats what i use).

 

[punkassean]

does anyone know the system weight for DRS w/36t bash?

I am contemplating ditching my DRS and going to an LG1 with a 36T guidering. If I can drop some weight it would help with not having a granny ring and in general simplify my setup. I only wish E.13 made a 34T guidering!

anybody?

I resurrected this thread to get info on a DRS not trials rims.

 

[fuzzynutz]

Forget about drilling into the bashguard. What about drilling/milling into the plate that holds the rollers? I don't know about the new versions but the older one is big and bulky. I would think you'd be able to get away with speed holes in that thing. Not like that has to take any direct hits or anything. Makes more sense to me.

 

[punkassean]

Forget about drilling into the bashguard. What about drilling/milling into the plate that holds the rollers? I don't know about the new versions but the older one is big and bulky. I would think you'd be able to get away with speed holes in that thing. Not like that has to take any direct hits or anything. Makes more sense to me.

Doh! :mumble:

ANYBODY KNOW THE WEIGHT OF A 36T DRS?

this is an old resurrected thread because I wanted to avoid creating a new thread.....

 

[fuzzynutz]

haha, I added that without looking at the date of the original thread. sorry. If I knew the answer to your question I'd tell you. I'm guessing it's not posted on the e-13 website?

 

[binary visions]

Sorry, don't know DRS (though I have one, I have no scale to weigh it with).

The LG1 is the lightest guide on the market that can take a 44T ring. It weighs 195 grams. (or 0.43 lbs)

A 2006 SRS weighs about 450 grams (0.99 lbs) for a 40T model.

 

[DIRTWRKS]

i highly doubt it uses the same material, as last time i heard, the formulation e13 uses is patented and not for license.

Yeah, not sure there is that much difference between the different Polycarbonate materials out there ,LEXAN vs MAKRALON or what ever E-13 uses.

I went from an E-13 to the MRP System-3 which uses a Polycarbonate outer bash guard that is fused to an inner metal "Al" plate.
It has proven to be every bit as tough as my E-13 while bashing into rocks etc and is actually lighter as well. Plus I still feel the rollers do a better job at chain retention especially in very muddy conditions.

 

[Biscuit]

does anyone know the system weight for DRS w/36t bash?

I am contemplating ditching my DRS and going to an LG1 with a 36T guidering. If I can drop some weight it would help with not having a granny ring and in general simplify my setup. I only wish E.13 made a 34T guidering!

I've got both sitting in my garage. (the lg-1 is actually on the bike though).

I liked the setup on my sunday so much I got one for my enduro too. Definitely a better setup for SC IMO. You really don't need the bashguard for trail riding.

I set mine up with a 34t truvativ ring and it's sweet. The Enduro chainstay does get in the way of the pulley though (since your running a small ring and the stay drops so low already). Required a little trimming, and if I smack the pully real hard it will rotate into the cs and bind the chain. Running a 36t would solve this, but I'm diggin the lower gearing.

I think a friend of mine has a scale I could weigh it with, but it is significantly lighter. I'll see what I can do, but no promises.

 

[punkassean]

I've got both sitting in my garage. (the lg-1 is actually on the bike though).

I liked the setup on my sunday so much I got one for my enduro too. Definitely a better setup for SC IMO. You really don't need the bashguard for trail riding.

I set mine up with a 34t truvativ ring and it's sweet. The Enduro chainstay does get in the way of the pulley though (since your running a small ring and the stay drops so low already). Required a little trimming, and if I smack the pully real hard it will rotate into the cs and bind the chain. Running a 36t would solve this, but I'm diggin the lower gearing.

I think a friend of mine has a scale I could weigh it with, but it is significantly lighter. I'll see what I can do, but no promises.

We do have lots of fallen logs and stuff but no rocks so a light bash on the chainring with the chain on it should be fine. I'm with you a 34t would be prime but a 36 might work better in other ways.

Now that I'm back in SC I'm trying to lighten up the Enduro as muc has possible to make it better for the riding here. SB demands so much of a bike compared to most anywhere else.

 

[buildyourown]

I just weighed my SRS at 525g. That's with a larger 40t bashgaurd and an older chunkier boomerang. Bolts also included.

 

[buildyourown]

Now that I'm back in SC I'm trying to lighten up the Enduro as muc has possible to make it better for the riding here. .

I have some lighter 1/4" thick bashgaurds that are interchangable on an SRS. They are heavily machined and are something like 100g lighter than stock. PM if interested.

 

[wysiwyg]

one of the brits in whistler has drilled 1" holes all around his e13 bash, must be what, ten of them...

 

[no skid marks]

So how many of you guys ever trashed an aluminium bash ring? Not including street ridding just DH and trail riding.
Also how much more shock does the plastic absorb compared to Alluminium? Surelly it's an irrelivent amount,a good whack thet'll disturb you aint gonna be absorbed by plastic,get a rubber one.
I just run (I am only 65kg but live in a real rocky area)an old chainring with the teeth chopped off,nothing lighter,looks real pro and cost nothing if you do wreck it.
E13 may be the best guide(strongest) but unessacery for 90% of riders in my opinion.

 

[stoney]

Yeah, not sure there is that much difference between the different Polycarbonate materials out there ,LEXAN vs MAKRALON or what ever E-13 uses.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

 

[thejames]

aluminum bashguards tend to bend and/or get nasty burrs when they get hit hard. the polycarbonate ones tend to get scuffed but not much otherwise. neither one usually blows up, it is just that the non aluminum ones tend to last longer without having to "persuade" them back into shape.

 

[xy9ine]

We do have lots of fallen logs and stuff but no rocks so a light bash on the chainring with the chain on it should be fine. I'm with you a 34t would be prime but a 36 might work better in other ways.

Now that I'm back in SC I'm trying to lighten up the Enduro as muc has possible to make it better for the riding here. SB demands so much of a bike compared to most anywhere else.

the gamut g25 is a nice light guide that uses a 32 or 34 ring. super simple to set up, and has worked flawlessly for the year i've been running it. couldn't be more happy. i swapped the bolts with ti, and it currently weighs 161g (bash ring, guide & hardware). i believe the stock weight is about 190g.

 

[punkassean]

So it looks like one could drop a full pound by ditching the front shifter/front der/cable+housing/granny ring/DRS in favor of an LG1/single 36t ring. Assuming a DRS and SRS are similar in weight.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[DEVOTiON]

Umm, I did.. A while ago.
(Matches the holes in the Deity sprocket , and for the fun of drilling, some speedholes in the lower roller)

 

[JohnnyBoyDH]

One of our guys drilled one out. Not all the way through though (maybe half way in). Started to develop cracks midway in the season.

 

[DIRTWRKS]

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Oh, are we a little slow today or do I have to expalin it a little differently for you !

HERE we go, obviously one of E-13's claims to fame is that they use a proprietary blend of polycarbonate.

Lexan and Makrolon are two other brand name polycarbonate blends that are very popular in the plastics industry and chemically and physically similar to what E-13 uses.

Well now that other guide manufacturers such as Gamut and MRP are also incorporating polycarbonate outer bash guards they have to rely on some other polycarbonate formulation.

So from what I have seen and experianced first hand it apppears that those materials are holding up just fine when being bashed up against rocks etc. so I was questioning the need for E-13's special formulation in this application.

 

[V-Dub GTI]

you could put it in a laied [spelling?] and take off he outer half.

 

[OGRipper]

you could put it in a laied [spelling?] and take off he outer half.

Err...no. If you are talking about a lathe, cutting it down to a level below the chain would not save nearly as much weight as just taking the whole thing off, and it would work about the same.

 

[urbaindk]

Lexan and Makrolon are two other brand name polycarbonate blends that are very popular in the plastics industry and chemically and physically similar to what E-13 uses.

.

I would have to agree with Dirtwrks here.

As an aside to this somewhat comical argument, does anybody else besides me cringe when they hear plastic formulations referred to as "alloys". Alloys are for metals kids. Polymer blends on the other hand - now that's where it's at.

 

[Toshi]

So how many of you guys ever trashed an aluminium bash ring? Not including street ridding just DH and trail riding.
Also how much more shock does the plastic absorb compared to Alluminium? Surelly it's an irrelivent amount,a good whack thet'll disturb you aint gonna be absorbed by plastic,get a rubber one.
I just run (I am only 65kg but live in a real rocky area)an old chainring with the teeth chopped off,nothing lighter,looks real pro and cost nothing if you do wreck it.
E13 may be the best guide(strongest) but unessacery for 90% of riders in my opinion.

with my old double-aluminum-plate MRP having a set of vise grips to bend back the plate in the toolbox was a necessity.

 

[binary visions]

does anybody else besides me cringe when they hear plastic formulations referred to as "alloys". Alloys are for metals kids.

Main Entry: 1al·loy
4 : a compound, mixture, or union of different things

I'd say that a polymer blend fits that definition just fine.

So how many of you guys ever trashed an aluminium bash ring? Not including street ridding just DH and trail riding.

Not including street riding? So you're just going to throw out the opinion an arbitrary group of riders, for no apparent reason other than they'll be a big voice in proving you wrong?

It depends on the aluminum bash ring. A solid hunk of aluminum like the one my buddy had on his bike will never break. It weighed a hell of a lot, though, and cost him more than an E.13 supercharger.

The aluminum "bash rings" that used to come on every MRP guard before they had many options, would bend if you looked at them funny.

Also how much more shock does the plastic absorb compared to Alluminium? Surelly it's an irrelivent amount,a good whack thet'll disturb you aint gonna be absorbed by plastic,get a rubber one.

It doesn't absorb "shock". What it does is slide over obsticles that an aluminum bashguard gets hung up on. Whack an aluminum bashguard hard on a rock and it's a momentum-wrecking moment quite often. The poly bashguard will simply slide over the top of it.

I just run (I am only 65kg but live in a real rocky area)an old chainring with the teeth chopped off,nothing lighter,looks real pro and cost nothing if you do wreck it.

Um, it does cost something if you wreck it. It costs you another chainring (marginal cost) and whatever the consequences are of removing the protection from your drivetrain. It might be nothing. Or it might mean replacing your chain, chainring that the chain was running on, maybe it means a bent spider and new chainrings. Maybe it means the end of riding for that day and walking your bike however-long out of the woods. It's also a hell of a lot easier to wreck than a proper bashguard.

Frankly, for the $30 that a new Supercharger is, I'll take the lightweight and super strong protection for my drivetrain. You should run whatever works for you, but don't pretend like there aren't people all over the world destroying bashguards every day that need something stronger than a chainring with the teeth chopped off.

 

[urbaindk]

I'd say that a polymer blend fits that definition just fine.

Hey, you are right. Alloy / blend is pretty much used interchangeably in literature now. You learn something new everyday. Still sounds funny to me. Maybe I'm just a metallurgist at heart.

 

[frorider]

BV, i'm sitting here in the R&D dept. surrounded by fellow polymer chemists, and i can tell you that none of us would ever refer to a polymer blend as an 'alloy'. strictly speaking, in the broadest sense of the word 'alloy' it would sort of be correct, but in practice the term has become strongly associated with metallic alloys.

however you have to hand it to the Evil marketing team. they know that people are scared of the idea of a plastic bash ring. so use of the word 'alloy' implies something special, and sounds vaguely metallic. classic marketing 101.

now if you'll excuse me, i have to take a drink from my Nalgene polycarbonate---i mean, special alloy--bottle.

ink:

 

[urbaindk]

BV, i'm sitting here in the R&D dept. surrounded by fellow polymer chemists, and i can tell you that none of us would ever refer to a polymer blend as an 'alloy'. ink:

See now that is what I thought. Then I questioned myself and started googling and came up with plenty of polymer "alloys". I actually was thinking that it must be driven by marketing .

see for instance: http://www.matweb.com/reference/polycarbonatemfr.asp

 

[binary visions]

BV, i'm sitting here in the R&D dept. surrounded by fellow polymer chemists, and i can tell you that none of us would ever refer to a polymer blend as an 'alloy'. strictly speaking, in the broadest sense of the word 'alloy' it would sort of be correct, but in practice the term has become strongly associated with metallic alloys.
<snip>
now if you'll excuse me, i have to take a drink from my Nalgene polycarbonate---i mean, special alloy--bottle.

Sorry, I was mostly just giving jdschall a hard time. A lot of terms are technically correct but would never be used in practice, and I understand that. I'm not a materials engineer, I just knew that alloy had a very broad definition so I thought I'd be a smart ass

 

[frorider]

no apology necessary. smart assing is what keeps ridemonkey interesting.

 

[no skid marks]

Not including street riding? So you're just going to throw out the opinion an arbitrary group of riders, for no apparent reason other than they'll be a big voice in proving you wrong?

Try re-reading it without the attitude, Yes I agree the plastic is stronger,I beleive it's not worth the weight penalty the amount the E13 one weighs,and no I don't need one and was curious to learn how many out there do. I left out street riders cause they're obviously smashing the **** out of them all day every day and can justify the use but as a racer or trail rider is it needed was my point,does the weight penalty justify the strength?
As for the sliding over rock theory,I can't say that that much difference in grip would be noticable or relevant on anything but the smallest of whacks,like using a pea or same size ball bearing to stop a car,one will do a better job but....... Again I would assume(and therefore leave out)street riders as possibly they may be able to use it to their bennefit(I don't know).

 

[dexter]

my 40tooth one that i have had on three bikes now that has been drilled to **** is still kicking ass today on a buddys ghetto ass street bike, wait thats the fourth bike its been on

 

[V-Dub GTI]

Err...no. If you are talking about a lathe, cutting it down to a level below the chain would not save nearly as much weight as just taking the whole thing off, and it would work about the same.

no i ment make it skinner not shorter.

 

[Backpack1]

Thanks to the people who fessed up with flicks and realized that speedholes are for looks and fun, not for Internet Engineers to get femmy-heated over.

Long live live the Speedhole! (and short-live the component? - who cares.)

DW rules too. This is Boston not LA.

peas

 

[DerekJ]

drill as many as you can...as fast as you can.
they aren't speed holes unless you doo it really fast.....and make sure some of the holes cross each other, you will get less resistance if air acn pass through in different directions.