[JSB]

The BMW/Ford/Rover agreement is like a horribly inbread family. I can't remember many details beyond that for at least a year after Ford took Rover over, that the Land Rover was coming with BMW motors. Don't know how the cars were effected though.

Red rover red rover...

Maybe they weren't a maintenance nightmare for once.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

from http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100249 <-- a good read on its own for car buffs


nb: as far as i know the u.s. spec mr2 spyder doesn't get the fancy (180hp in toyota guise, 190hp in the elise) engine. it makes do with 140hp iirc

well yeah, i have the prejudice againsts elises because of the rover engines, and the toyotas engines are of course better than the rovers. but still that doesnt make the elise a great choice within its category.

toyota makes a very nice coupe. the Levin, unknown in the US, but a sweet and cheap car. its like a corolla coupe. 1.6 liters, 170hp, 6sp. and yeah the lotus is indeed not a slow car. is a fast car.

BUT for the price, numbers, and compared to the competitors in its niche category, it looses ground to the others. still a nice novelty.

 

[DVNT]

The BMW/Ford/Rover agreement is like a horribly inbread family. I can't remember many details beyond that for at least a year after Ford took Rover over, that the Land Rover was coming with BMW motors. Don't know how the cars were effected though.

Red rover red rover...

Yep, this will be the first year that the Range Rover will sport a Jag (ford) engine. I think the new disco will too. It's funny that they changed the name Discovery to LR3 just in the states. They say the name has a bad rep. here but won't clarify if they are talking about the quality of the Discoveries or the Space Shuttle blowing up.

I also read that as part of the take over agreement Ford had to buy the BMW powerplants for a certain time, because of production schedule or something like that. The best thing BMW did for LR was fire Lucas Electronics and replaced everything with BOSCH. Lucas Electronics is famous for taking down other brands like MG and Triumph.

 

[DVNT]

Back to the Lotus......

What else is 40k?

How much is Carol Shelby selling his cars for out in Vegas? I think they are a little over 40k and what 400+ HP....hmmmm..

New Vette....45k...

 

[Repack]

Is it true that BMW basicly gave Rover away? I remember reading something to that effect. Did Ford basicly pay off the debt to acquire the company? I remember hearing that losses were in the billions for BMW.
Sorry if I am dragging this thread off-topic.

 

[DVNT]

Is it true that BMW basicly gave Rover away? I remember reading something to that effect. Did Ford basicly pay off the debt to acquire the company? I remember hearing that losses were in the billions for BMW.
Sorry if I am dragging this thread off-topic.

Yeah, BMW way over leveraged themselves in that purchase. They got MINI thrown into it as a bonus and it looks like that is the only thing turning out for them. Yes Ford bailed them out, but with LR there is more to it than the consumer market. They are a HUGE military and commerical vehicle manufacturer - Defender's kick ASS! I WANT ONE!!!! :mumble:
Ford has more logistical power to push more of these sales to South and Latin America.

From what speculation I've read / heard. BMW wanted Land Rover so they could get some technology and experience in the SUV market. This was before they even concepted the X5. They re-designed the Range Rover and designed the Freelander for Land Rover, got the patents they wanted got out.

Sorry it seems like I'm writing a book on Land Rover here when I've only read a few.....

 

[reflux]

RE: bmw and land rover

Aren't the 2004 LR models the first ones to market that BMW has (re)designed? If that's true, then the majority of BMW's losses have come from the poor previous management/ownership.

dvnt: Interesting. I haven't heard any of that before, thanks.

 

[DVNT]

RE: bmw and land rover

Aren't the 2004 LR models the first ones to market that BMW has (re)designed? If that's true, then the majority of BMW's losses have come from the poor previous management/ownership.

dvnt: Interesting. I haven't heard any of that before, thanks.

Actually the Freelander, which was the first BMW designed LR made it's debut in Europe in 97. (did my research before I bought one).

BMW did a Redesign on the Range Rovers (fired Lucas and switched to BOSCH) but didn't overhaul the body styling until 2003 - which is the one you see for sale today.

 

[Repack]

When did BMW purchase LR? I think that the timelines will not support the idea that BMW purchased LR to help with the X's. The X vehicles are much closer to a car than a Rover/truck. The X5 has a lot of 5-serries sedan in it.
I believe that LR was purchased as a way to diversify their offerings. Then they realized that they should have stuck to what they are good at.
My dad has been a BMWCCA member for a while now, and one thing that I have learned from going to meetings is that they have stuff ready to go many years before the spy photos ever appear in the mags.

 

[DVNT]

When did BMW purchase LR? I think that the timelines will not support the idea that BMW purchased LR to help with the X's. The X vehicles are much closer to a car than a Rover/truck. The X5 has a lot of 5-serries sedan in it.
I believe that LR was purchased as a way to diversify their offerings. Then they realized that they should have stuck to what they are good at.
My dad has been a BMWCCA member for a while now, and one thing that I have learned from going to meetings is that they have stuff ready to go many years before the spy photos ever appear in the mags.

I'm sure that's true and that it's probably a combo of things. I believe LR holds the Patents to Hill Decent Control and some other ABS systems.

As far as the car chassis, you are completely right. Ford is even taking it a step further with Land Rover in 2006. The Freelander will share design elements and parts with the Ford Escape and the Volvo V40 (?), the LR3 already has a lot in common with the Explorer, and they talking about bringing the Bronco back which will also be the New Defender ( Defender is long over due for a change due to increased enviromental concerns in the UK).

I really wish BMW would of held out though. The new Range Rover they designed has sold more in the USA than in the rest of the world combined. The Freelander has been disappointing here, but it's a large SUV market. Land Rover's need a lot of lovin, and it'll be cheaper in the end for Ford to support these vehicles than BMW.

Another useless bit of trivia..... Countries like Brazil, signed exclusive rights to automotive manufacturers (such as Ford) in the 30's to import vehicles with out being taxed to death. So Ford now sells Brazil's Military Land Rover Defenders, but with FORD badge's on them to get through this loop hole.

The whole thing is really cool. Like you can look at a mutt and say hey it's part German Sheppard and part Yorkshire Terrier. You can definately tell these trucks were designed in Germany but still have the Brit quirkiness.

(disclaimer: i do not work for LRNA in any way shape or form, my comments my not be supported with facts of any kind )

 

[biggins]

where do you put the roof rack?

 

[El Jefe]

where do you put the roof rack?

I don't know, but please post 28 times per day so I can see your avatar at all times.

 

[DVNT]

Ok, here is a blurb from a LR book about the BMW purchase.....

When BMW took control of the entire Rover Group in 1994, it was generally agreed that they found Land Rover the most attractive part of the business they had purchased. Not only was it the most profitable ( or potentially so) segment, but it was also the activity from which they could learn the most.

It now seems, in fact, that they always considered the Rover Car business to be a problem, and that Land Rover was "the jewel in the crown". In the six years that followed, BMW pumped huge amounts of investment capitol into both sides of the business, but made sure that is was Land Rover that introduced three important new model ranges in four years: the second generation Range Rover, the second generation Discovery, and the newly designed Freelander. Before the sale (to Ford) was agreed in 2000, BMW had also committed huge sums to the development of an all new third generation Range Rover, a car that would include much modern BMW technology.

BMW was so enthused by Land Rover that i made Solihull an important, high-tech centre, not only for producing more and more 4 x4's, but also for producing steel pressings for the whole Rover Car group. At the same time, BMW had great ambitions for their own new 4 x4 models (the x5 in 1999 being the first), and made sure that all avaliable Solihull knowledge made the "one-way" journey to Munich.

While BMW was selling Land Rover to Ford in 2000, much project work that was already under way at Gaydon UK was swiftly removed, so that Ford could not know anything that BMW did not want them to know.


If you or any othe monkey's out there found this article interesting and would like to know more about the passing of Land Rover from Munich to Detroit.. I'd be happy to share the details on Ford's Purchase from BMW or BMW's plans for engines in the new Land Rovers.