[Zark]

Its time to retire my CRT Sony 36" and get a more modern TV. I just got a PS3 and would like to take full advantage of this thing. It will be for gaming and movies, I don't have cable but will probably setup the Netflix streaming.

So.... I don't know much about this stuff though.
LED or LCD? Sounds like plasma gets expensive with bulbs down the road.
How fast do I need? 120hz or 240hz?
My living room is only about 7-8' deep.
My budget? $1300 max.
There's a best buy just down the street and cash burning a whole in my hand. Help a monkey out

 

[IH8Rice]

-plasmas dont have bulbs, lcd's do (which arent user replaceable btw). Plasmas are still your best picture quality next to your Sony CRT (which was one of the best tv's EVER made...if it was the HD model of course)
-the half-life of modern tv's is ridiculous. most will see upwards of 100k+ hours before they are half as bright as when they were new...nothing to worry about
-120 and 240Hz both make movie viewing look like crap. thankfully most sets have the ability to turn off this feature. for sports and fast moving objects on the screen, its okay.
-if you are 7-8' out anything from a 40-50" would be more than enough...i sit 7-8' from my 56" and my 42"
-what other retail stores are near you besides BB? Sears? HH Gregg? Walmart even?
where are you located so i can help find the best deal for you

 

[Zark]

No, mine was not the HD one.... much older.

Goleta, 93117
Not much here actually
We've got a K mart....blech
No wally world for quite a ways.

 

[pdawg]

Hey bro,

LED TVs are still LCD-based but use a different system for backlighting, i.e. LED and not fluorescent. LED TVs consume quite a bit less power than normal LCDs. Also, dynamic range is a bit better... but the do cost some money.

On the refresh rate pissing match topic, 240Hz is only a 30% increase over 120Hz. For PS3, it is not a noticeable as the jump from 60Hz to 120Hz. Why not 480Hz, right? There seems to be a point of diminishing return.

An often overlooked feature is adjustability. Specifically, the ability to separate the controls for motion blur and film judder (two different things). Personally, I like to watch 24p content in its raw essence without a preset smoothing effect that makes it look like video. Some TVs may not let you tune this, so good to check.

Does $1300 get you all this? Damn good question.

btw, call me when you get your new TV so we can check out the latest bluray flics and pound a few beers (will be back in SB in a couple weeks).

-pdawg

Its time to retire my CRT Sony 36" and get a more modern TV. I just got a PS3 and would like to take full advantage of this thing. It will be for gaming and movies, I don't have cable but will probably setup the Netflix streaming.

So.... I don't know much about this stuff though.
LED or LCD? Sounds like plasma gets expensive with bulbs down the road.
How fast do I need? 120hz or 240hz?
My living room is only about 7-8' deep.
My budget? $1300 max.
There's a best buy just down the street and cash burning a whole in my hand. Help a monkey out

 

[IH8Rice]

sorry for the delay. did you get a TV yet?
i have some recommendations to stores that are near you

 

[Zark]

I did, I picked up a Sharp Aquos 40"
Its a sweet tv, I really like it.

 

[IH8Rice]

I did, I picked up a Sharp Aquos 40"
Its a sweet tv, I really like it.

wouldnt have been my first choice, but still nice

 

[$tinkle]

been watching this thread, hoping someone would chime in about volume attributes, but i guess you lot pump sound through some peripheral device, or don't care?

i'm going selectively deaf & increasing volume does little to help. i can hear a cricket cough at 10 paces, but some dialog is white noise. hope it's just teh tv...

oh, i have a POS philips that chops 10% of most programs (5 left + 5 right)

 

[syadasti]

LED TVs consume quite a bit less power than normal LCDs. Also, dynamic range is a bit better... but the do cost some money.

You have it backwards, most wide-gamut LCD displays uses CCFLs - LED backlights unless specially designed like RGB LED backlight, etc show less colors than CCFLs since the white LED aren't full spectrum. In fact at their worst - LED backlight LCD laptop displays have horrible gamut for the most part.

If you are talking about dynamic contrast ratios, they are marketing bull**** (just like the refresh rice mentioned) and CCFL and LED backlight displays on the high-end have similar ratios. Read this article for the truth since there is so much marketing BS out there:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/display_myths_shattered

 

[IH8Rice]

been watching this thread, hoping someone would chime in about volume attributes, but i guess you lot pump sound through some peripheral device, or don't care?

i'm going selectively deaf & increasing volume does little to help. i can hear a cricket cough at 10 paces, but some dialog is white noise. hope it's just teh tv...

oh, i have a POS philips that chops 10% of most programs (5 left + 5 right)

newer tv's have advanced sound features in them to help anyway they can and they do sound nice for everyday use.
if you want to go crazy, Mitsubishi LCD's have soundbars built into them.

i cant remember ever using my main tv's speakers.

You have it backwards, most wide-gamut LCD displays uses CCFLs - LED backlights unless specially designed like RGB LED backlight, etc show less colors than CCFLs since the white LED aren't full spectrum.

If you are talking about dynamic contrast ratios, they are marketing bull**** (just like the refresh rice mentioned). Read this article for the truth since there is so much marketing BS out there:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/display_myths_shattered

1000% correct on all fronts.
LED tv's on the market are primarily lit by fluorescents

dynamic contrast ratio is the biggest crock of sh!t my industry has ever published. 1mil:1 or 5mil:1 is just plain hilarious.
our company also got chastised because we would publish real figures like 2,500:1 or 4500:1, when others were saying they had 1bazillion:1

 

[Zark]

wouldnt have been my first choice, but still nice

It was between that and the Samsung 40" The Sharp looked better to my untrained eyes, and had good reviews from what I could find.

What's done is done. It looks so much better and takes up so much less room than my old Sony. Its great for gaming and I finally watched a blu-ray disc on it and it looked great.... Too bad the movie was a POS

 

[IH8Rice]

It was between that and the Samsung 40" The Sharp looked better to my untrained eyes, and had good reviews from what I could find.

not saying you picked a crappy tv. we just all have our own personal preference in tv's

 

[Inclag]

In the same boat here, but a much lower budget at ~$700.

I've come across a bunch of deals online and at local retailers for TV's ranging from 40"-50" that would fit my budget. There appear to be countless deals on TV's that are standard LCD, 1080p, 120Hz starting at around 500 up. It also seems that if you're willing to go plasma, you can get something that's closer to 50" that's 1080p and 600Hz (If that sounds right?).

My question is what should I really be looking for? For some reason plasma's seem to be cheap now and are regarded as the less superior product. I'd like something that could handle Blu-ray, and I do watch sports and the like so something that's less choppy would be ideal. There are insane deals on Mistubishi DLP's, but I've heard they have major issues.

It seems that there's alot of mistruths, shady science, and marketing in the industry and that the reality is that the final products are all really pretty much the same.

 

[IH8Rice]

).

My question is what should I really be looking for? For some reason plasma's seem to be cheap now and are regarded as the less superior product. There are insane deals on Mistubishi DLP's, but I've heard they have major issues.

It seems that there's alot of mistruths, shady science, and marketing in the industry and that the reality is that the final products are all really pretty much the same.

who in their right mind said plasmas are less superior? they are still the best picture quality you can find next to a old CRT tv. they are cheap because the market has been swinging towards LCD's for the past 3 years.
the cheap lcd's look like their price. cheap.
some of the plasmas that are dipping lower and lower in price, actually do look pretty damn good

if you dont mind having a tv that is around 12", then the Mitsu DLP's are a phenomenal deal. their newest crop of sets dont have issues like they did when they first came out 7+ years ago. the nice thing about a "micro-display" tv is that you can replace the light bulb in the set (which usually last 3-4k hours) and have a brand new tv again.


and even though my industry has fabircated numbers they arent all the same.

 

[$tinkle]

who in their right mind said plasmas are less superior?

until they bring manufacturing & distro to high altitude, they will be lower quality &/| higher maintenance costs, no?

 

[syadasti]

until they bring manufacturing & distro to high altitude, they will be lower quality &/| higher maintenance costs, no?

They make a few high-altitude plasma models but I don't think that's a huge part of the market. The main drawback with current plasma right now is power consumption compared to the competition - most of the other concerns have been addressed (other than altitude)

 

[Inclag]

who in their right mind said plasmas are less superior?

Salesmen, hence why I'm trying to get opinions from others.

they are still the best picture quality you can find next to a old CRT tv. they are cheap because the market has been swinging towards LCD's for the past 3 years.

So then I'm confused why plasmas (aside from burn in) have so many misconceptions? Also, are lower plasma prices merely in place to try to compete with the flooded LCD market? I won't rule out a plasma if it is a robust enough piece of equipment, and silly things like those ESPN side bars won't damage the screen.

the cheap lcd's look like their price. cheap.
some of the plasmas that are dipping lower and lower in price, actually do look pretty damn good

I wasn't too impressed with the LCD's hitting the $700 mark, and these are all usually models marked down ~$200-$300 (So in reality $1000MSRP models) All of which were 1080p 120Hz models. As a neophite, I'd say they just weren't as "vibrant" and didn't handle motion on the screens very well. Is this because I was standing close or are there other technologies implemented in these $1100-$1200 tv's that just make the picture quality better? They still seem to be LCD's with the same "stats" (Not LED)

if you dont mind having a tv that is around 12", then the Mitsu DLP's are a phenomenal deal. their newest crop of sets dont have issues like they did when they first came out 7+ years ago. the nice thing about a "micro-display" tv is that you can replace the light bulb in the set (which usually last 3-4k hours) and have a brand new tv again.

I assume you meant 12'? Is it safe to say that Mitsubishi's pricing is due to their damaged reputation? I'm skeptical. These deals are through Paul's TV, and a 65" TV for around $800 just screams of old stock.

and even though my industry has fabircated numbers they arent all the same.

If I throw up some models that I'm looking at would you mind throwing in your 2 cents? Thanks!

 

[IH8Rice]

Salesmen, hence why I'm trying to get opinions from others.
salesman are just trying to sell you on a:what they have in stock. b:what they get a spiff on. c:what they are told to sell you. or d:the actual truth


So then I'm confused why plasmas (aside from burn in) have so many misconceptions? Also, are lower plasma prices merely in place to try to compete with the flooded LCD market? I won't rule out a plasma if it is a robust enough piece of equipment, and silly things like those ESPN side bars won't damage the screen.
plasmas are not as susceptible to burn in as they have been in the past, though it can still happen. lcd's can even has issue with burn in too.
yes, plasma prices are being lowered more and more everyday because they are trying to compete with the VASTLY flooded LCD market.
if burn-in is your major concern, you should really consider the image a good plasma can give you.



I wasn't too impressed with the LCD's hitting the $700 mark, and these are all usually models marked down ~$200-$300 (So in reality $1000MSRP models) All of which were 1080p 120Hz models. As a neophite, I'd say they just weren't as "vibrant" and didn't handle motion on the screens very well. Is this because I was standing close or are there other technologies implemented in these $1100-$1200 tv's that just make the picture quality better? They still seem to be LCD's with the same "stats" (Not LED)
no, there probably is no trickery going on with those sets. the cheaper lcd's look like crap IMO. if you spend a few bucks (see:$400+) more, you can usually up the picture quality quite some bit


I assume you meant 12'? Is it safe to say that Mitsubishi's pricing is due to their damaged reputation? I'm skeptical. These deals are through Paul's TV, and a 65" TV for around $800 just screams of old stock.
no, i mean 12" or so. these types of tv's rely on mirrors to bounce the image around, so they take up a little bit of room, but not too much. (see picture of my similar type of tv below.) the prices on some of those models can sometimes be because they are old new stock or because Mitsu typically "closes" out large quantities of tv's to dealers at a super reduced rate. the price is also reflected by the nearly 0% market share of DLP tv's. (mitsu is the only company still making them)
even if they are old stock, they are still probably new. the tv will still look pretty damn good even with that low low price..


If I throw up some models that I'm looking at would you mind throwing in your 2 cents? Thanks!
shoot away

see above

this LCoS tv is sorta similar to the DLP's out there:

 

[IH8Rice]

until they bring manufacturing & distro to high altitude, they will be lower quality &/| higher maintenance costs, no?

most of the companies that are still producing plasmas, already have the factories in place and are online from when the plasma market was booming.
plasma in itself, is a better picture quality than most anything on the market.

there really is no maintenance per se on tv's. they are either gonna work, or they arent. if a lcd or plasma dies, the repair prices are going to similar to each other. most companies offer in-home support for the majority of their tv's sold on the market.

They make a few high-altitude plasma models but I don't think that's a huge part of the market. The main drawback with current plasma right now is power consumption compared to the competition - most of the other concerns have been addressed (other than altitude)

i think he meant hi production

 

[syadasti]

i think he meant hi production

In parts of Colorado plasma displays are not suitable due to altitude. The gas tech isn't suitable unless you get special models. Maybe the special models are sorta turbo charged like ICE, heh (never looked into how they work). I had to help someone get some HDTV years ago for their place at Steamboat Springs and the local installers said not to get regular plasma sets cause of that issue...

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-altitude.html

 

[IH8Rice]

In parts of Colorado plasma displays are not suitable due to altitude. The gas tech isn't suitable unless you get special models. Maybe the special models are sorta turbo charged like ICE, heh (never looked into how they work). I had to help someone get some HDTV years ago for their place at Steamboat Springs and the local installers said not to get regular plasma sets cause of that issue...

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-altitude.html

i understand this. maybe i misunderstood him. i thought he was referring to high production

 

[Inclag]

OK, so these are a few TV's I'm considering.

Plasmas
Panasonic 42" Model TCP42U1
Panasonic 42" Model TCP42S2
Panasonic 50" Model TH50PZ77U (This may be a refurb, need to look into it)

LCD's
Sharp AQUOS 46" 1080p LCD HDTV - Model LC-46D65U
Sony Bravia 40" 1080p LCD TV - Model KDL-40EX50

Mind you, I'm being a frugal shopper and trying to purchase via the web because the abundance of deals, online coupons, and free shipping and no tax. If you have any strong feelings about other manufacturers I'm sure I could try to drum up some prospective models from them as well.

 

[Transcend]

I have an older 46" aquos that i absolutely love, for what it's worth. I shopped for ages until i found one I liked!

 

[IH8Rice]

OK, so these are a few TV's I'm considering.

Plasmas
Panasonic 42" Model TCP42U1
Panasonic 42" Model TCP42S2
Panasonic 50" Model TH50PZ77U (This may be a refurb, need to look into it)

LCD's
Sharp AQUOS 46" 1080p LCD HDTV - Model LC-46D65U
Sony Bravia 40" 1080p LCD TV - Model KDL-40EX50

Mind you, I'm being a frugal shopper and trying to purchase via the web because the abundance of deals, online coupons, and free shipping and no tax. If you have any strong feelings about other manufacturers I'm sure I could try to drum up some prospective models from them as well.

the first Pana model is disco'd, so make sure you are buying a NIB model and not a floor/refurb model. that being said, the S2 model is a 2010 and does have a better panel/processor than the U1. but if the price diff is significant, im sure you will be happy with the 42U1.
the TH50PZ77U is even older i believe. if its a refurb, stay away. far away. the only good thing it has going for it, is the size over your other two choices.

personally, im not a fan of the current crop of Sharp or Sony LCD's (i think you mean 40EX500 for the Sony right?.) i like Samsung's and LG's, but as with audio, video comes down to personal opinion (albeit, not as much.) Sony's prices are typically a bit higher than their competitors too.

go to a store and look at the sets on the same channel or video source. dont even bother talking with the salesman until you have made up your mind.
the Sharp does have a nice LCD panel, but IMO, they dont make good use of it.

like i said before, i like plasmas more because of how vibrant the colors are and how they "pop." the power consumption is much much higher with a glass panel and they give off a lot of heat compared to a LCD or LED LCD.

if you dont mind the size of a DLP, they are being sold at stupid low prices and still have a lower power consumption rating, last a long time, look pretty good and are fairly light weight.

 

[Inclag]

Looks like I'm going to go with the Panny P42S2. After doing a bunch of research it seems like most videophiles feel pretty strongly that Plasmas are the superior product vs. the current LCD and LCD/LED offerings. Found some pretty good reviews and some really in depth info on the AVS forums as well.

Thanks for the help!

 

[IH8Rice]

After doing a bunch of research it seems like most videophiles feel pretty strongly that Plasmas are the superior product vs. the current LCD and LCD/LED offerings.

told you.

though some of the newer LED's are phenomena looking, you will pay for it.
did you go look at the set, or are you listening to what the internet says?

 

[Inclag]

told you.

though some of the newer LED's are phenomena looking, you will pay for it.
did you go look at the set, or are you listening to what the internet says?

Yea, checked out a set at Best Buy. Grabbed a salesperson and had him switch the setting to Cinema mode since I heard that it was the only stock setting that worked out ok. Looked phenomenal after that. Will probably download a custom break-in video and run for 100-200 hrs. and follow custom setup advice I read on AVS.com.

All of the LCD's/LED's were just insanely bright. I'm sure some tuning would have helped them but I wasn't impressed with the Sony's and the Insignias looked horrid. I'm not sure what the effect is called, but there was really odd looking outlining surround the objects of focus on the Insignias that made video look really weird. I'd say the Samsung's were easily the best looking LCD/LED's in my mind, but there wasn't any feature or anything from a visual standpoint that it had over the Panny. Add the more expensive price tags (especially on the LED models) and the choice was easy.

 

[IH8Rice]

they look bright because the backlight setting was probably jacked all the way up. most stores do this because of the ambient light in the store and to "wow" customers. a lot of people think since it is bright, means it is good looking. I remember when the retail store i managed sold Mitsu LCD's and everyone thought they looked great because they burned your retinas. All the employees knew that they looked like crap, but customers dropped their panties over those over priced, overly bright sets.


like i said before, im not a fan of Sony's ever since they dropped the tube tv's. i personally wouldnt recommend a Insignia tv to anyone unless they are looking for a cheap tv. even then, there are other options out there.
Samsung's panels are great looking any the only nice advantage that a LCD or LED/LCD has over a glass panel is the anti-glare coating they have. In bright rooms, plasmas can be a b!tch to watch because they are glass..

let me know if you have anymore questions.

and fyi, DONT buy those overpriced HDMI cables at the retail store. go to buy.com or amazon.com and spend $2-5 on a 2m HDMI cable.

 

[syadasti]

and fyi, DONT buy those overpriced HDMI cables at the retail store. go to buy.com or amazon.com and spend $2-5 on a 2m HDMI cable.

Monoprice.com is probably the best reputable cheap cabling source. They don't rip you off on shipping either.

 

[IH8Rice]

Monoprice.com is probably the best reputable cheap cabling source. They don't rip you off on shipping either.

most of these are either free shipping or $3+- for shipping
"http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=2m+hdmi&x=0&y=0&ih=1_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0.637_1&fsc=-1"

hmm cant seem to get link to work....copy and paste above w/out quotes
i dont recommend anything lower than 2meters. in case you need to turn the tv around, a 1m/3.3ft cable is pretty short

 

[bean]

I know most of you have already purchased whatever you were looking for, so this is for whoever might see it later.

I wouldn't bother even looking at the TVs in stores. Most of them are calibrated so badly as to be worthless for comparison.

Something I was surprised to learn is that most of these panels are built to remarkably tight tolerances. This means that if you break-in the panels the same way, you can use the same calibration adjustments with multiple TVs and get a pretty good picture. When I got my plasma (a 42" Panasonic) I found a break-in process and calibration instructions (including stuff in the service menu that isn't normally accessible) from someone on avsforum who just likes to buy them and create calibration instruction for them. After watching this one for a a year or so now, it's hard to watch at friend's houses who are just using the awful factory settings.

 

[IH8Rice]

I wouldn't bother even looking at the TVs in stores. Most of them are calibrated so badly as to be worthless for comparison.

where would you consider to look at tv's? on the internet?
if someone is that worried about how a tv is calibrated on a show room floor, ask for the remote

 

[bean]

where would you consider to look at tv's? on the internet?
if someone is that worried about how a tv is calibrated on a show room floor, ask for the remote

I wouldn't/didn't make the decision based on what I saw. I went by reviews and numbers by people who did the testing with calibration, as well as the reputation of the company. I haven't kept up with it, but at the time you could go with just about any Panasonic or Pioneer plasma set in a given price range and be pretty confident that you were getting something that was either first or second best in the class.

Even if you are given the remote in the store, you still can't calibrate it properly on the spot. And they're probably also not going to let you turn off all the store lights to see what it looks like in the dark or whatever your typical lighting conditions are going to be.

 

[IH8Rice]

I wouldn't/didn't make the decision based on what I saw. I went by reviews and numbers by people who did the testing with calibration, as well as the reputation of the company. I haven't kept up with it, but at the time you could go with just about any Panasonic or Pioneer plasma set in a given price range and be pretty confident that you were getting something that was either first or second best in the class.

ive always went by personal experience in viewing the sets. "reviews" are usually always biased in some way or another. i know this because i work in the industry.
before i did though, i did read reviews and went to view the sets and made my own choice.

and yes, Pioneer has always made the best glass panels. period.
and yes, you cant calibrate a tv correctly in the store, nor can you probably do it on your own without the propr equipment...and im not talking about a calibration DVD