[OGRipper]

I've always had mixed feelings about the Mass, and all the good comments on both sides here have not changed that. The hypocrisy inherent in participating in the Mass while also arguing for better protection for cyclists is obvious and - for better or worse - a way of amplifying the statement, whatever you think it is. The fact that it is not organized is the best and worst thing about it.

I don't want the Mass to be exclusive to "serious" cyclists any more than I only want to see only serious cyclists riding bikes every other day of the month. I want to see lots of different people out there, bringing home the point that cycling in a busy city is accessible to all and a viable transportation alternative.

The diversity at the Mass and in everyday cyclists reflects the population as a whole, it's not just limited to enthusiasts. Unfortunately, society includes a bunch of wingnuts who don't know how to control themselves.

 

[pedalmunky]

I fully agree with you, OG. I'm sorry if I seemed elitist with my earlier comments about CM. Of course I want a diverse turnout; my problem lies with bandwagon-jumpers who saddle up with the sole intention of getting into someone's face. I don't believe in confrontation as a pastime, and for some people that's what this last Friday of the month has become. And the fact that they do it in the name of cycling as transportation, something that I do everyday (I don't have a car - and I'm trying to state that as unself-righteously as I can) really strikes a nerve with me.

All right, so I've written what I like about CM and what I don't. (BTW, I appreciate the creative edits of my own words, BMXman - you've got me believing that I'm a single-minded jerk - a realization I've already arrived at, thank you very much) You want to know what I like best about the Mass? Riding in a phalanx of riders thousands strong, several city blocks long. I live in Chicago, and I still remember sailing down Lake Shore Drive, no-handed, taking the S-curve by Oak St. beach with my arms out to the side, and a huge grin on my face. I dunno how many of you are familiar with my city, but it's a really beautiful part of town, with the open lakefront before you and the sheer steel canyons of downtown behind. Yes, it was illegal, and yes, I couldn't have done it without the help of a couple thousand other petty criminals on bikes alongside me, and no I'm probably never going to be able to do that again.

But I'm gonna remember that ride the rest of my life.

 

[BMXman]

(BTW, I appreciate the creative edits of my own words, BMXman - you've got me believing that I'm a single-minded jerk - a realization I've already arrived at, thank you very much).

lol....not my intention at all....D

 

[OGRipper]

I absolutely admit that aside from all the political stuff, a big part of the appeal is the sheer joy of riding in a huge, generally happy group on streets that are normally clogged and dangerous, if not off limits altogether. So no question that for me there is definitely a selfish fun-factor. Some see it as irresponsible, but opinions differ. I try to help keep the massers behaving properly (telling people to not ride on sidewalks, to let pedestrians cross, etc.) and I do enough volunteer work that my conscience is clear.

I mean, come on, riding wheelies through the Broadway tunnel in SF is just super fun.

 

[sanjuro]

I absolutely admit that aside from all the political stuff, a big part of the appeal is the sheer joy of riding in a huge, generally happy group on streets that are normally clogged and dangerous, if not off limits altogether. So no question that for me there is definitely a selfish fun-factor. Some see it as irresponsible, but opinions differ. I try to help keep the massers behaving properly (telling people to not ride on sidewalks, to let pedestrians cross, etc.) and I do enough volunteer work that my conscience is clear.

I mean, come on, riding wheelies through the Broadway tunnel in SF is just super fun.

I see Mr. OG at Critical Mass, and we have a good time.

I have to agree with CM being a poor statement about bike safety or visiblity, although the next most notable incident is when a cyclist is killed.

I like a little confrontation and some mild law-scoffing, which why I can do CM every month.

 

[luelling]

I think events like CM are great and show some unity, but I can see the problems. If a car bumped me.....it would have to be enough to knock me over.....it would piss me off, and then you can run into mob mentality. I think an organized CM with a group responsible would show more unity than a loose gathering of people that can do whatever. If there was a central group responsible, there maybe more self regulation.

 

[sanjuro]

I think events like CM are great and show some unity, but I can see the problems. If a car bumped me.....it would have to be enough to knock me over.....it would piss me off, and then you can run into mob mentality. I think an organized CM with a group responsible would show more unity than a loose gathering of people that can do whatever. If there was a central group responsible, there maybe more self regulation.

There are a thousand organized rides around the Bay Area. So far I have participated in none of them.

Do I want to sign a waiver, get a t-shirt, or even follow a route?

 

[bikesound]

My account of this incident: This was towards the end of the ride (after splitting off and dissipating). We had about 30 people by the time we were leaving Japantown when I heard a noise, which I could even hear over the music, and I turned my head to see a minivan on my left just having run over a bike and saw the rider on the ground. Riders nearby yelled at the driver to stop and the minivan just sped away. Many people in the ride chased after the van and surrounded it after catching up with it at the red light. The driver had her hand pressed on the horn the entire time. The cops got there pretty much right away as they were following right behind us. I rode away with the rest of the ride but some people stayed behind to deal with the cops. I didn't see the rear window get smashed but I can say that I only saw the couple sitting in the front of the minivan as the rest of the windows were heavily tinted and we could not see that there was anyone else in the vehicle.

If anyone cares, you can see that the windows were tinted in this video of the awful KRON4 news report:
http://tinyurl.com/27v4pf


Upcoming bay area rides if anyone's interested:

April 6th - Oakland Critical Mass (every first friday)
6pm @ Frank Ogawa Plaza (12th St. BART entrance on Broadway & 14th St)

April 13th - Berkeley Critical Mass (every second friday)
6pm @ Downtown Berkley BART on Shattuck Ave

April 20th - Walnut Creek Critical Mass (every third friday)
6pm @ Walnut Creek BART

April 27th - San Francisco Critical Mass (every last friday)
6pm @ Justin Herman Plaza (near Embarcadero BART on Market St.)

 

[pixelninja]

and I turned my head to see a minivan on my left just having run over a bike and saw the rider on the ground.

Did you actually see her run over the bike? I'm curious why this rider didn't file a police report. I'm also curious how he was able to ride away (based on what the news story wrote) if his bike had been run over.

This whole thing is obviously a case of 2 sides to a story, and the truth falling somewhere in between the two.

 

[sanjuro]

Did you actually see her run over the bike? I'm curious why this rider didn't file a police report. I'm also curious how he was able to ride away (based on what the news story wrote) if his bike had been run over.

This whole thing is obviously a case of 2 sides to a story, and the truth falling somewhere in between the two.

While I was not there, I have seen bicycles getting hit during CM. I suspect the cops did the absolute minimum here.

Just to point this out, there was a very controversial story over New Year's where a Yale student choir was attacked by some local college students, and it took 4 months before any arrests were made. The cops there also did the absolute minimum.

 

[LordOpie]

Anyone who rides CM and is surprised by a driver who had no idea what's going on and does something unexpected deserves what they get.

Remember, you're out there representing, so why was anyone that close to another vehicle anyway? And if they're honking and wanting to get by, let them. Generate goodwill.

Or am I missing the point and CM is just a group of thugs out for fun?


Remember, I'm first and foremost a roadie and am annoyed by cagers just as much as anyone. (been hit three times in 20 years that required a trip to the doctor/ER)

 

[OGRipper]

Amazing how so many first-hand reports are so different. Somebody is lying or maybe just confused.

If the cyclist was ok, I can understand how they wouldn't file a report, even if I might have. Hard to know, but good reason or not the cyclist was probably breaking a bunch of laws and maybe didn't want to get a citation, deal with a bike confiscation, or even an arrest.

 

[pixelninja]

While I was not there

'nuf said.

I'm not taking sides on this because I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened.

Hooligans or idiot driver? The world may never know...

 

[bikesound]

Did you actually see her run over the bike? I'm curious why this rider didn't file a police report. I'm also curious how he was able to ride away (based on what the news story wrote) if his bike had been run over.

When I looked, the rider who's bike had been hit was already on the ground. But there were others who saw the whole thing who called 911 and stayed behind to file a report with the cops. The cops lied to them and said that they couldn't file one unless the ambulance was called:

"Witnesses also say that the bicyclist who was hit wanted to file a police report, but was told by the officers that the only way to do so would be if they called an ambulance for him, which he would have to pay for. And when he tried to file a report through another officer, the first one came over and repeated the ambulance requirement."
http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/politics/2007/04/demonizing_bicyclists.html

 

[MikeD]

Hooligans or idiot driver? The world may never know...

I'd be quite willing to put my money on both. But I still generally sympathize with anyone driving legally on the street rather than the mob that intentionally and repeatedly defies the laws that they want everyone else to observe.

It's like protesting bank robberies by knocking over a Wells Fargo.

I also tend to believe the reporters who made the report rather than the partisans involved in the incident. I did go too light and easy on the driver in my first statements, for sure...but as we all know, nothing has been determined and nothing is likely to be determined. I can bet this woman's not going to share the road with cyclists any better than she did before encountering Critical Mass.

 

[pixelninja]

 

[LordOpie]

I'd be quite willing to put my money on both. But I still generally sympathize with anyone driving legally on the street rather than the mob that intentionally and repeatedly defies the laws that they want everyone else to observe.

It's like protesting bank robberies by knocking over a Wells Fargo.

well said.

 

[OGRipper]

It's like protesting bank robberies by knocking over a Wells Fargo.

Just give in and love the brilliant absurdity of it.

:biggrin:

 

[sanjuro]

It's like protesting bank robberies by knocking over a Wells Fargo.

I also tend to believe the reporters who made the report rather than the partisans involved in the incident.

CM is more like protesting high bank fees by robbing the bank.

You tend to believe the reporters on the scene? Were they there when this happened? Or did they just interview the woman, who I suspect is telling less than the truth?

 

[Red Rabbit]

When I looked, the rider who's bike had been hit was already on the ground. But there were others who saw the whole thing who called 911 and stayed behind to file a report with the cops. The cops lied to them and said that they couldn't file one unless the ambulance was called:

"Witnesses also say that the bicyclist who was hit wanted to file a police report, but was told by the officers that the only way to do so would be if they called an ambulance for him, which he would have to pay for. And when he tried to file a report through another officer, the first one came over and repeated the ambulance requirement."
http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/politics/2007/04/demonizing_bicyclists.html

Check you source, that was written in a blog. and Blogs are often slanted & or incorrect.

 

[syadasti]

Check you source, that was written in a blog. and Blogs are often slanted & or incorrect.

So is general media, whats your point

Fox News, NBC, even the NYT have all been publically exposed for false reporting numerous times.

 

[Red Rabbit]

Yes, but while the Media is held accountable for fraudulent reporting, a Blogger can say anything he danm well pleases. Bloggers should not EVER be used as relabile news sources.

 

[syadasti]

Yes, but while the Media is held accountable for fraudulent reporting, a Blogger can say anything he danm well pleases. Bloggers should not EVER be used as relabile news sources.

Thanks for quoting your teacher. That is an outdated viewpoint from someone trained years ago. A record executive would say the same thing years ago when asked about Internet, but he'd be wrong and miss out on huge opportunities.

Bloggers can be just as useful as mainstream media, especially when it comes to local and/or specialized issues/viewpoints that would not be covered in the mainstream media. They are increasingly much more important with the recent media conglomeration trends going on due to lax government control.

 

[Red Rabbit]

How can you be so dense? "Demonizing bicyclists" is the title of his article. Does that sound like he is remaining, in anyway, unbiased? I mean really, with a title like that, how can you say that his article is going to be accurate.

If I were to listen to bloggers, I would belive that 9/11 is a conspiracy. Or that Bush controls the world price for gas, not OPEC.

 

[pedalmunky]

Damn, this just won't die, will it? I thought everyone had given their perspective, grievances were aired, and lines drawn in the sand. All with no definite conclusion, of course, but situation-normal-all-f'd-up, right? Then along comes an actual first-hand account and it's automatically dismissed? That alleged condition the cops put on filing a police report, about needing an actual ambulance call, does that make any sense? Any law enforcement types want to chime in here?

It definitely sounds like something someone in authority would say to effectively short-circuit a messy situation, because I was once lucky enough to take an involuntary ambulance ride, and even though worker's comp footed the bill, I couldn't believe the cost. There was even an added expense for running the sirens. If I wasn't acually hurt, I'd cut my losses and roll off on a tacoed wheel than risk having to pay for that on top of damages to the bike.

 

[dan-o]

The only fact that can't be denied by either side is this:
If the CM ride didn't take place there would have been no confrontation.

If you knicker wearing little bitches need to feel empowered by irritating random strangers, fine. Just don't cry foul when someone bites back, rightly or wrongly, because YOU created the situation.

 

[OGRipper]

Just don't cry foul when someone bites back, rightly or wrongly, because YOU created the situation.

So someone would be justified in shooting a bunch of cyclists for participating in CM? I disagree.

 

[Silver]

The only fact that can't be denied by either side is this:
If the CM ride didn't take place there would have been no confrontation.

And if the woman hadn't left Redwood City, you can make the same assertion...

 

[dan-o]

So someone would be justified in shooting a bunch of cyclists for participating in CM? I disagree.

I didn't say that, or any violence, would be justified.
My point is, if you go looking for trouble don't be suprised when you find it.

 

[Jeremy R]

if you go looking for trouble don't be suprised when you find it.

How did the cowboy get $hit on his moustashe?

Looking for love in all the wrong places.



This thread is a cow patty.

 

[MikeD]

Damn, this just won't die, will it?

Man, you are new here, aren't you?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Okay, here's the deal, I F'n hate hippies!!!!! F the environment, let me drive my car where I want to without a group of fu*khead hippie, tree hugging, nature loving, car hating environmentalists that are breaking the road laws by not obeying the posted signs/lights etc. If they want to do their CM, do it on their time NOT MINE!!!!!! Which means it's ALWAYS MY TIME so stay off the F'n roads!!!!!!


In conclusion to my rant............. F the hippies and ride DH

 

[DHS]

Okay, here's the deal, I F'n hate hippies!!!!! F the environment, let me drive my car where I want to without a group of fu*khead hippie, tree hugging, nature loving, car hating environmentalists that are breaking the road laws by not obeying the posted signs/lights etc. If they want to do their CM, do it on their time NOT MINE!!!!!! Which means it's ALWAYS MY TIME so stay off the F'n roads!!!!!!


In conclusion to my rant............. F the hippies and ride DH

can we have the rep button back

 

[OGRipper]

I didn't say that, or any violence, would be justified.
My point is, if you go looking for trouble don't be suprised when you find it.

You definitely implied that it's ok to run over a cyclist for blocking a car during what is, for the most part, a peaceful demonstration. The "situation" did not need to escalate into violence but your post makes it seem like you think it would justified. Maybe you can clarify your point?

 

[BMXman]

You definitely implied that it's ok to run over a cyclist for blocking a car during what is, for the most part, a peaceful demonstration.

wow...just wow is all I can say....D

 

[OGRipper]

wow...just wow is all I can say....D

It is a peaceful demonstration, except for a few overzealous crusaders on a mission to create conflict, and a few motorists who get really pissed off. So for "for the most part" it is peaceful, and it rarely turns violent. It's been happening for more than 15 years and the serious incidents are few and far between. You, like others, are focusing on the few highly publicized negative incidents and ignoring everything else.

 

[Toshi]

Red Rabbit, you have earned a place on my ignore list. there's only so much one can take.

 

[ito]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6556644913687801720

News coverage. Lady admits to trying to weave her way out of the crowd.

According to a friend who was on the ride pretty much everyone had left before they even started heading towards Japantown, only a few dozen at most were still on the ride.

I've spent the past few years commuting in a couple of different cities and I have to say I support the CM riders. I put up with an asshole driver at least once a week (twice this week) and while most of the situations are resolved by one of us checking ourselves and a hand wave there are those idiotic few who have no concern for other people on the road and they are the ones CM tries to reach and who I try to reach every time I talk to a driver who wants to know why I bike when I could drive.

I don't think breaking a window in this case is justified and I have heard horror stories about CM, but I also find it silly that a group of people is expected to bend over day after day when they are threatened by inconsiderate drivers. There is a lot of frustration built up in that mob and when the lady pushed the wrong buttons by trying to "weave through the crowd" you have to expect something to happen.

I'm sure the kids will get over the traumatic experience, but sadly I imagine this woman will never ride a bike or allow her children to ride.

Sucks.

The Ito

 

[Red Rabbit]

Red Rabbit, you have earned a place on my ignore list. there's only so much one can take.

Wait, how? Just wondering.

I mean I really have no reason to justify myself to you, but I mean, wtf did I do.

Are you upset about me disputing the accuracy of blogs?

Wow, just wow, is all I can say.

I have been mostly respectful, I acknowledged others inputs. Admitted I have been wrong.

Are you merely mad at me because I don't believe what you believe in?

If that is the case, I am sorry for you. I am sorry that you cannot respect other peoples opinions.

Can someone please quote me so Toshi can see this?

 

[ito]

CM is more like protesting high bank fees by robbing the bank.

Next time I'm in SF I'm riding a CM in a Robin Hood costume and throwing out handfuls of Monopoly money.

The Ito