[Reactor]

Society is broken. Regardless of the reason (inequalities, lack of personal responsibility, culture) this is ridiculous. America has a higher percentage of it's population in jail than just about anywhere in the world. More than "harsh dictatorships". I'm not slamming police, or the justice system, something is wrong with society as a whole when we've degenerated to this level.

WASHINGTON - A record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole by the end of last year, according to the Justice Department.

Of those, 2,193,798 were in prison or jail, an increase of 2.7 percent over the previous year.

Even though data show more prison releases, the report said, admissions still exceed releases. More than 4.1 million people were on probation and 784,208 were on parole at the end of 2005.

Men still far outnumber women in prisons and jails, but the female population is growing faster. Over the past year, the population females in state or federal prison increased 2.6 percent while the number of male inmates rose 1.9 percent. By year's end, 7 percent of all inmates were women.

"Today's figures fail to capture incarceration's impact on the thousands of children left behind by mothers in prison," Marc Mauer, the executive director of the Sentencing Project, a Washington-based group supporting criminal justice reform, said in a statement Wednesday. "Misguided policies that create harsher sentences for nonviolent drug offenses are disproportionately responsible for the increasing rates of women in prisons and jails."

From 1995 until 2003, inmates in federal prison for drug offenses have accounted for 49 percent of total prison population growth.

Racial disparities among prisoners persist. In the 25-29 age group, 8.1 percent -- about one in every 13 -- of black men are incarcerated, compared with 2.6 percent of Hispanic men and 1.1 percent of white men. And it is not much different among women. By the end of 2005, black women were more than twice as likely as Hispanics and over three times as white women to be in prison.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15960666/

 

[valve bouncer]

That means that at least a few of you are posting from the clink. I bet one of 'em is MMike and his real name is Leroy and Da Peach is his "boy". Never trusted those two. As an Australian I'm a good judge of criminality.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Your article hints at a reason...

Nonviolent drug offenses. But is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Reactor]

Some "non-violent" drug abuses can hurt a lot of people, like parents on crack, Drunk Drivers who kill and maim people, and whatever Britany Spears was smoking when she married Kevin Federline.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Some "non-violent" drug abuses can hurt a lot of people, like parents on crack, Drunk Drivers who kill and maim people, and whatever Britany Spears was smoking when she married Kevin Federline.

That's true, but we should focus on rehabilitation instead of incarceration.

 

[Reactor]

That's true, but we should focus on rehabilitation instead of incarceration.

I absolutely agree. Most non-violent drug offenders should go to drug treatment, instead of prison. It's like society has taken an all or nothing, black or white approach to the problem.

 

[urbaindk]

I think my brother-in-law alone accounts for 4 or 5 people this year. He's a real winner.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Some "non-violent" drug abuses can hurt a lot of people, like parents on crack

yeah, that is bad, but...

Drunk Drivers who kill and maim people

Alcohol isn't a drug (at least as far as the FEDGOV is concerned).

and whatever Britany Spears was smoking when she married Kevin Federline.

and smoking is legal (for now).

so 2 of three aren't contributing factors to NVDO, but I totally agree... something is definitely FUBAR.

 

[Reactor]

I think my brother-in-law alone accounts for 4 or 5 people this year. He's a real winner.

My second younger brother (of 4) personally employeed several probation and police officers.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I absolutely agree. Most non-violent drug offenders should go to drug treatment, instead of prison. It's like society has taken an all or nothing, black or white approach to the problem.

You're with us or against us?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Alcohol isn't a drug (at least as far as the FEDGOV is concerned).

Good point.

and smoking is legal (for now).

Depends on what you smokin'.

 

[MMike]

That means that at least a few of you are posting from the clink. I bet one of 'em is MMike and his real name is Leroy and Da Peach is his "boy". Never trusted those two. As an Australian I'm a good judge of criminality.

You racist...

 

[valve bouncer]

You racist...

No no no no no no, not at all, some of my best friends are Canadian/Quebec half breeds. Their kids are cute when they're little.

 

[Reactor]

You're with us or against us?

Yes, I'm with you. Non violent drug offenders should go to treatment. If they are abusing or neglecting their children they should be punished for that crime, and treated for drug use. Drunk drivers should be charged with murder if they kill somone, and attempted murder if they injure someone. The first time they are caught their license should be revoked and to get it back they should have an interlock device on their car for about 10 years.

Society could put the money being used to incarcerate these people into treatment programs and come out ahead. Way ahead.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Yes, I'm with you.

Sorry, that was a Bush quote. I was making the parallel between your statement of how we treat things in black and white, and how our current government does things the same way.

 

[Reactor]

how our current government does things the same way.

I like the way bush characterizes people as either "patriots" or "traitors" . Patriots agree with him, everyone else is a traitor.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I like the way bush characterizes people as either "patriots" or "traitors" . Patriots agree with him, everyone else is a traitor.

It's reflective of the way he has handled things since he came to office, but it also reflects how we have handled the war on drugs ever since the 80s. You're right when you say that society has a black and white view of things and approach to the problem. It's sad really, because the world is not black and white the vast majority of the time.

Another thing that leads to higher incarceration levels are three strikes laws and mandatory sentencing. Those who push for those things feel that not enough people are in jail.

 

[goofy]

I like the way bush characterizes people as either "patriots" or "traitors" . Patriots agree with him, everyone else is a traitor.

Then I'm a traitor :biggrin:

 

[stinkyboy]

I have talked to many homeless and/or tweakers living on the streets, and a very large percentage of them prefer it that way (no responsibilities). When they need a change of atmosphere (because of inclimate weather or they need to clean up a bit) it's very easy to get arrested on a minor charge and do a week or a month in county jail.

Many of these men and women live this life because they say they had screwed childhoods and that they have no hope for a future as they see themselves as human garbage which they accept.

So sad.

Then there's a high percentage of people inside on marijuana possession charges which I think is stupid.

 

[MMike]

We should microwave the homeless

 

[kidwoo]

I got no complaints.

I read that article and it says, "higher percentage of free women walking around than anywhere else in the world" what with the higher man thing and all

 

[Reactor]

I got no complaints.

I read that article and it says, "higher percentage of free women walking around than anywhere else in the world" what with the higher man thing and all

So you view it as increasing your odds of getting laid? I guess there is a silver lining in anythign if you look at it hard enough..:biggrin:

 

[kidwoo]

So you view it as increasing your odds of getting laid? I guess there is a silver lining in anythign if you look at it hard enough..:biggrin:

Don't you have some weed to sell or some reckless driving to do?

maybe rob a bank.....

 

[Reactor]

Don't you have some weed to sell or some reckless driving to do?

maybe rob a bank.....

No, but I could go down to the local LBS and yell "I can get this stuff from the internet at half the price" and drive away real fast....:biggrin: :biggrin: Kidding of course.


Actually I'm at home and think I'm coming down with the flu. My temp is already over 101f and I feel miserable.

 

[skinny mike]

yep, religion is doing an awesome job of keep americans "moral."

 

[kidwoo]

No, but I could go down to the local LBS and yell "I can get this stuff from the internet at half the price" and drive away real fast....:biggrin: :biggrin: Kidding of course.

Fine with me, I'm a hydrologist. But even that would keep you a free man tying up all my womenfolk.

At least it sounds like you've got some of that squirrel plague now and won't be an issue much longer.:biggrin:

 

[ElTORO]

Then there's a high percentage of people inside on marijuana possession charges which I think is stupid.

Totally!! My cousin went to jail in AZ for having less then a bong load in his car. Went to jail and now is on full probation, piss test and all. That's so lame!! And a great use of are tax dollars.

 

[Changleen]

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Teh win...

 

[Kihaji]

Totally!! My cousin went to jail in AZ for having less then a bong load in his car. Went to jail and now is on full probation, piss test and all. That's so lame!! And a great use of are tax dollars.

I'll say the same thing I say to everyone who says that, what have you done to change the situation? Sitting back, whining, and smoking a bong are not going to change the law. The beauty of the American system is that it CAN change, if you have the will and the support.

 

[ElTORO]

I'll say the same thing I say to everyone who says that, what have you done to change the situation? Sitting back, whining, and smoking a bong are not going to change the law. The beauty of the American system is that it CAN change, if you have the will and the support.

Lol.. Like you totally know who I am and what I have done TO change the system from one post on the internet. And I'm sure AZ would give a F what someone from CA thinks. But were I live we did change things, bud now is as bad as a j-walking ticket and is considered the lowest crime in the county. Not that I smoke or anything.

 

[MikeD]

Maybe we have more people in prison because we tend to shoot fewer people on sight, or deliver quicker punishment without incarceration, like caning or amputation of hands...or maybe some other countries don't consider their enormous population of enslaved political prisoners to be technically 'in prison' while they're being 'rehabilitated...'

Or maybe many other countries have more unsolved crime and a less efficient, even more corrupt justice system. Or they don't keep statistics, or just lie to the world about the truth.

We're not perfect by any means, and much of the discussion here is worthwhile, but these specific statistics have never meant much to me...

MD

 

[Reactor]

Maybe we have more people in prison because we tend to shoot fewer people on sight, or deliver quicker punishment without incarceration, like caning or amputation of hands...or maybe some other countries don't consider their enormous population of enslaved political prisoners to be technically 'in prison' while they're being 'rehabilitated...'

Or maybe many other countries have more unsolved crime and a less efficient, even more corrupt justice system. Or they don't keep statistics, or just lie to the world about the truth.

We're not perfect by any means, and much of the discussion here is worthwhile, but these specific statistics have never meant much to me...

MD

The U.S. , i seem to recall, has one of the lowest rate of solving major crimes among 1st world countries. Which is largely irrelevant, if 3% of your population is currently on probation, parole or in prison something is wrong. Call it what you may, peoples irresponsibility, poverty, unjust system, bad role models, whatever. It's still a problem, it still comsumes a lot of resources both human and financial. Hopefully someone will see this thread and think.

 

[Silver]

Maybe we have more people in prison because we tend to shoot fewer people on sight, or deliver quicker punishment without incarceration, like caning or amputation of hands...or maybe some other countries don't consider their enormous population of enslaved political prisoners to be technically 'in prison' while they're being 'rehabilitated...'

Or maybe many other countries have more unsolved crime and a less efficient, even more corrupt justice system. Or they don't keep statistics, or just lie to the world about the truth.

We're not perfect by any means, and much of the discussion here is worthwhile, but these specific statistics have never meant much to me...

MD

Or Americans are amoral jerks...

The stats are pretty bad when look at incarceration rates per capita. South Africa only has 60% of the prisoners that the US does. Check out the list and tell me when you hit another country that you'd like to live in after the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita

I get down to #46...

 

[kidwoo]

Or Americans are amoral jerks...

Well if you'd read the fvcking pamphlets I sent you and join me for a service things might be a little different tough guy!
yes the irony is my point

I get down to #46...

32.....I win!

 

[Silver]

Well if you'd read the fvcking pamphlets I sent you and join me for a service things might be a little different tough guy!

That's INTERNET tough guy to you...

 

[MikeD]

Or Americans are amoral jerks...

The stats are pretty bad when look at incarceration rates per capita. South Africa only has 60% of the prisoners that the US does. Check out the list and tell me when you hit another country that you'd like to live in after the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita

I get down to #46...

So we're falling short of Somalia's stellar 0 per 100,000 residents?? Good lord, we'd best find out what THEY'RE doing so well...

Edit: None of this is meant as a sidestep of the fact that we do have significant cultural issues we need to resolve here, btw...just emphasizing that it's not simply this case of over-harsh government and near-totalitarianism that people try and tout with relation to these supposed statistics.

Frankly, overly harsh government can possibly lessen crime, other than that of desperation or survival, with a significant deterrent effect. And we don't want that...America's crime prevalence may stem from America's roots as a free-wheeling, less-than-law-abiding place (read: the Revolution, the old west, etc.)

 

[Westy]

I only know two people who have been jail. One now has a PHd, married into some old money and is so white bread I can barely stand talking to him anymore. The other is now married to a judge.

Both got sent up the river for stupid drunken events. I did have one really good friend who probably would have gotten sent up the river for two counts of manslaughter but managed to get killied in the process of committing the crime. He was drunk too.

 

[ohio]

Frankly, overly harsh government can possibly lessen crime, other than that of desperation or survival, with a significant deterrent effect.

Like, say, Singapore?

And we don't want that...America's crime prevalence may stem from America's roots as a free-wheeling, less-than-law-abiding place (read: the Revolution, the old west, etc.)

Like, say, Australia?

 

[valve bouncer]

Or Americans are amoral jerks...

The stats are pretty bad when look at incarceration rates per capita. South Africa only has 60% of the prisoners that the US does. Check out the list and tell me when you hit another country that you'd like to live in after the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita

I get down to #46...

Interesting stats. Canada and Australia are the same. But I tend to agree with Mike D, they are largely meaningless. When you have Papua New Guinea way down the list it tends to raise the eyebrows a bit.