One of my really good friends is an Israeli-American (he's Israeli but grew up here and has dual citizenship) And decided to do his civic duty and join the army. He spent his last year in the west bank and a pretty elite unit. He got back last week, and it was kind of strange, it was like he never left. I'm super stoked he is home, the hell out of Palestine (the west bank) and safe.
One of my best friends is home
- Thread starter TheMontashu
- Start date
That's cool, now get out & ride!!!
As you did?
I have a pinched nerve in my neck, so not riding today. I have ridden 5 of the last 7 days though
I actually have thought about joining the Israeli military, but have decided if I'm going to move there that I would do some sort of other service. This has nothing to do with not joining the military, if we weren't in Iraq I would probably be in the US military now. Israel has more than enough soldiers and needs people out in hospitals and with the poor, the government actually giving monetary incentives for people not join other services instead of the army.
OK so you are saying you are willing to serve another country , yet feel this country then owes you an education ?
that's cool man...unfortunately my roommate and best friend since preschool gets deployed in mid February
When my country is fighting an illegal holy war/ war for profit, then that would be correct.
Loren you should be first in line to sign up, our country's current war is to benefit Israeli special interests.
American policy towards Israel is one of the most terrible things happening to Israel right now. I'm not going to go into details (look at the political board to see what I have to say about the situation) and the people running the Israel lobby need to get socked in the face. AIPAC is scum.
Unlike the 60 year old Israeli occupation of Palestine?
While Israel is very much to blame in that situation, it's a much more complicated issue than in Iraq. Israel has also not been in Palestine for 60 years, they took over the west bank and Gaza later.
Israeli policy towards America is one of the most terrible things happening to America right now.
Call me crazy, but I think our government has been completely usurped by Israeli interests. Current middle east policy proves it. I'd bet you $1000 that Obama will increase troops in Iraq and send us into Iran within the next 4 years. Obama = Bush = Puppets
...must spread rep.
Israel IS Palestine dude. Palestine was a UK colony from the end of WWI until the end of WWII.
Palestinians have been refugees in their own country for 4 generations now.
The history of Israel, is a long, sad story of ignorance, greed and hate on behalf of both Zionists and the world political community as a whole...
Israel is a force for evil and oppression in the world, and the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinians is such a vile, vile smirch on the history of man. I'd love to see that state dismantled, but we've moved beyond that now...
I'm not going to debate this one with you here, there was never a place called Palestine under the Great Britain, it was called Trans Jordan, never palestine. It was the Jews who accepted the partition plan and the Arabs who told the Palestinians to leave the first time so they could kick the Jews out. There has NEVER existed a nation of Palestine, The west bank was under first, Egyptian control, then Israeli control, then the Israeli's tried to give it back to Egypt, Egypt refused, then Israel created a state in Gaza (kinda, Egypt and Israel are preventing it from actually becoming a state and are both doing horrible things to the Palestinian people by preventing goods to flow into the country) The west bank has NEVER been part of a state of Palestine, it was first under Jordanian control then Israeli. While I have MANY grievances with Israels treatment of the Palestinians, and fully acknowledge how horrible things they do like torture are completely appalling. The Arab world and the US also are HUGE perpetrators in the situation through their policies. The Palestinians are truly the victim here, but they are by no means making there situation better. If there leadership had any damn sense they would not be launching rockets into Israel and would stop calling for the destruction of Israel, they would have an easier time getting along. You have to remember, while Israel comes down brutally hard on the Palestinians the vast majority of the time it is in response to attacks on Israel.
It is also clear that your view of the situation is incredibly Ignorant and one sided, try reading BOTH sides, somewhere in the middle is were the truth lies. Once you can get over your hate and ignorance we can talk, but for now I'm done.
If my country NEEDED me I would be more than happy to enlist, but so long as we are fighting wars for corporate profits, and in turn ruining the countries, standing internationally, credit, economy as well as costing a half million lives, then no I won't. If we send our army in to stabilize parts of Africa and sit down and redraw boarders with consideration for tribal affiliation, then sure I am more than happy to serve.
Would you like it if your county was turned into a french speaking colony, and you were kicked out of your home?
That's the reality man. Spin the argument all you want, Israel has no right to exist. Never has, never will.
Judeo-Fascism is no better than the christian/petro-fascism you inveigle against. When people are not free, that is bad. No way to spin that.
Step back from whatever hangups you have, and realize that. Stop assigning blame. Stop thinking there is a military solution. Realize that things that are done, can not be undone (heck, guilt and zionism are equally at fault for the founding of Israel).
When the solution of violence is available, it will be used by those without a tenable position (Ocuupiers) or a voice (what some people call terrorism). Either type of violence creates nothing positive.
All states are artificial constructs, most borders result from imperialist blunders, but Israel is not Tribal Conflict. Israel is a form of sick racially motivated colonialism. Zionism, be it Jewish, Black or Rasta, is a freaking nasty, brutish pipedream of oppressed populations without recourse to power.
There would be no jewish Zionist movement akin to that in the early part of the last century today, given the liberalization of the first world in the 20th century... Is some of the increased tolerance of jews and the jewish faith a result of the creation of Israel? I'm not sure, but my gut points more towards no...
By fighting to support Israel, you fight to support oppression, intolerance and antiquated thoughts on the nature of humanity. Isreal is a 19th century concept armed with 21st century Neo-Conservative rhetoric and the full might of the US, British military/petro/industrial complex.
It's sure as hell no Zion.
That's the reality man. Spin the argument all you want, Israel has no right to exist. Never has, never will.
Judeo-Fascism is no better than the christian/petro-fascism you inveigle against. When people are not free, that is bad. No way to spin that.
Step back from whatever hangups you have, and realize that. Stop assigning blame. Stop thinking there is a military solution. Realize that things that are done, can not be undone (heck, guilt and zionism are equally at fault for the founding of Israel).
When the solution of violence is available, it will be used by those without a tenable position (Ocuupiers) or a voice (what some people call terrorism). Either type of violence creates nothing positive.
All states are artificial constructs, most borders result from imperialist blunders, but Israel is not Tribal Conflict. Israel is a form of sick racially motivated colonialism. Zionism, be it Jewish, Black or Rasta, is a freaking nasty, brutish pipedream of oppressed populations without recourse to power.
There would be no jewish Zionist movement akin to that in the early part of the last century today, given the liberalization of the first world in the 20th century... Is some of the increased tolerance of jews and the jewish faith a result of the creation of Israel? I'm not sure, but my gut points more towards no...
By fighting to support Israel, you fight to support oppression, intolerance and antiquated thoughts on the nature of humanity. Isreal is a 19th century concept armed with 21st century Neo-Conservative rhetoric and the full might of the US, British military/petro/industrial complex.
It's sure as hell no Zion.
There were two sections of the British Mandate of Palestine, Palestine and Transjordan.
I don't know what the individual divisions were under the Ottoman Empire, but the boundaries changed dramatically since then. For example, Iraq used to be three areas for thousands of years because there were three different religious and ethnic groups.
We mostly agree on the issue of I/P, but Palestinians have a right to fight back from apartheid. It may have been easier for the slaves on plantations to just go along with what their master said, but they have a right to kill their master.
We must always support the right of the oppressed to fight their oppressors.
Please just go away, You have no idea what you are talking about. I know more Israelis and Palestinians than you ever will. Your views (along with the views from the super pro Israeli side) are the cause of this problem, now if you would take care and strop trying to debate this with me it would be nice. Trying to talk to people like you about this situation is like arguing with evangelical Christians about the bible. You have your crazy beliefs and no matter what facts, or common sense dictates, you will stick to your hateful rhetoric that is at the route of the problem.
The region of palestine was divided into jordan and trans jordan, under the ottomans, it was just part of there empire and not really and resemblance of its own entity.
While I do understand why the Palestinians want to fight back, what I don't understand is why every time Israel comes to the table with an offer of "lets talk about giving you the west bank and gaza and stop killing each other" the palestinian leadership tells them to F off, and that it's all or nothing.
And again, this was more about me being happy my good friend was home and safe than anything else
Well, in the collapsed negotiations with Arafat, Israel was asking for him to do what Arafat couldn't do. Arafat wasn't in control of the people launching suicide attacks, he can ask all he wants but he wasn't truly in control.
They want to fight back because Israel was imposed on them. There was a commission done to see what the Palestinians thought about Israel being formed, and they said no way.
This resistance is totally justified.
You sir, are the antithesis of an advocate for anything. You argumentative style is akin to yelling, and then covering your ears.
And why is it that you have more of an idea than someone else? You are a scholar on this subject, yes? You've traveled the region extensively, met numerous Israelis and Palestinians and have read up as extensively as possible on the multiple thousand year background of this current conflict?
Or are you just pulling it out of your ass based on some talking points? Because it sure appears to me that you have a moderate amount of knowledge, and you want to yell and shout to cover the gaping holes in your knowledge, logical and rhetorical abilities.
Why do you feel so strongly that Israel has a right to exist? And more importantly, why do you feel that the Palestinians should be OK with being occupied? Why are you so irritated and quick to accuse people who don't agree with you of "hateful rhetoric"?
Community college made him a scholar. He'd be smarter but the man kept him down by making college cost money. In turn, it must also be directly responsible for turning him into a lazy, self-entitled whiny bitch.
While I partially agree that resistance is justified, it is still a large part to preventing peace from happening. The part of it that bothers me is that instead of looking at the situation and trying to figure out how to end the killing the vast majority of Palestinians still want Israeli blood to spill, this has been true since the beginning of the state of Israel. You also have to take into consideration that the Israeli's defiantly did not always have the upper hand, and that the palestinians had this view before they were the victem
Yes, the kid who has been to Israel twice, raised in a Jewish household, who spend every summer at a Jewish summer camp for 10 years. I also have many Israeli friends and a few Palestinian friends. But, yea, what the hell would I ever know about israel.
Oh so in other words you've been brainwashed
Precisely. Bias is a bitch.
These last 2 Jewish threads are so full of nonsense and pro-israel propaganda it's ridiculous.
Not really, I hate the Israel lobby, think the treatment of Palestine is less than acceptable. I think both sides are partly to blame (how much on each side I don't know but its both there faults) I also get my news on the region from both al jazeera, and other Arab news sources, as well as the Jerusalem post and a few Israeli sources. Both sides tell the factually truth but are both very one sided. I feel like I get a pretty good balance.
Yeah, he is perfect. Just ask him.
You're right I am perfect. Especially when issues are brought up that I have quite a bit of knowledge in and have several friends (like 6 right now) currently serving in the Israeli army
asshat
Last edited:
I have quite a fee friends that have served in the US army too. They have no idea why the US is still in Iraq and Afghanistan. By it a because they are junior soldiers in a war that is decree n closed offices in Washington. Much as one would assume those n israel are made.
Using your logic, I know what goes on in boeings black works group because my college roomate is a Boeing employee. Same with the CIA because I have a cousin that works there.
Israel has a very different culture than America, politics there are much bigger and the average person is very opinionated and very well informed about what's going on
are you serious? montashu is the only one that seems to be coming across without too much bias, despite the fact that he should be very biased based on his upbringing. you people seem to be skimming over the fact that he has been consistently CONDEMNING israel's actions against palestine, not defending them. how does that make for bias?
are you aware of how india & pakistan were created? if so, would you then also say they don't have the right to exist?
what are your criteria for a nation to have the right to exist?
would the u.s. & canada qualify? why or why not?
i'm pretty sure the nation (or "12 tribes", if that helps you) goes back a bit further
pretty sure of that
The Palestinians that were driven from their land had absolutely nothing to do with driving the original Jews from their homeland.
You can't just make a country based on ancient geography with no regard for the lives of people currently alive.
That's ****ed up.
You can't just make a country based on ancient geography with no regard for the lives of people currently alive.
That's ****ed up.
The first wave of Palestinians driven from there land were actually told to leave by the invading Arab nations. The Arab nations were going to kill all the Jews and expel them from Palestine so the Palestinians could have it.
Actually, they were driven because of the slaughter at Deir Yassin
And thusly condemned by the Haganah, **** happens in war, especially with a non regular unit in a rag tag largely non regular militia. There were many factors in Palestinians leaving, but something like 125 innocent people getting killed would not be the direct cause of some 700 thousand people leaving.