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Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke
So, they kept to themselves, so they got some kind of hint that we didn’t really want to socialize. But they pissed off two of our neighbors walking their cat on their lawns. Not just from the street, but on their damn lawns. They also left a smelly garbage bag outside of the camper overnight, and we have bears. Clueless. But again, this is a favor for my brother.
I mean, who the fuck walks their cat?
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
17,232
14,709
Spent 20 minutes turning my workbench upside down looking for a couple of grub screws from something. No luck.

Then I walked back upstairs and found the two grub screws sitting in a small ziplock bag in my key tray where I'd left them ~2 months ago...

Time to go ride bikes.
 

Wingnut

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2003
1,670
197
Sorry, I'm Canadian ..sorry...
So, they kept to themselves, so they got some kind of hint that we didn’t really want to socialize. But they pissed off two of our neighbors walking their cat on their lawns. Not just from the street, but on their damn lawns. They also left a smelly garbage bag outside of the camper overnight, and we have bears. Clueless. But again, this is a favor for my brother.
4umbhcadms641.jpg
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,796
5,627
Ottawa, Canada
It is good to keep the little fucks as far apart from each other as possible!
In my area the incidence went from 6.8 to 130 withing a week because kids w/o symtoms were spreading it, carrying it into their families and infecting adults and siblings. This nearly caused the lockdown of the whole area. :banghead:
Conveniently, the news never mentioned that the hotspot was at a local school or that kids were the main cause. Heard it from some parents. :tinfoil:
If the parents want schools to open so badly, then they should let us others step in front of the vaccination queue so that at least we are protected when shit hits the fan. But no, they feel entiltled that they and their little shits get the vaccine ASAP, because schools need to be open. :mad: :rolleyes:
bullshit.

The local health authorities, the chief medical officer of health, and the Covid task force have all said it's safe to reopen schools, and that any downsides are outweighed by the mental health crisis affecting children, and a significant portion of them falling back academically.

Vaccination rates are going well here, all teachers have been able to get vaccinated for about a month now.

Also, I'd rather accept the advice of the health care professionals over what some random parent told me. you know, science and stuff.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,703
3,168
bullshit.

The local health authorities, the chief medical officer of health, and the Covid task force have all said it's safe to reopen schools, and that any downsides are outweighed by the mental health crisis affecting children, and a significant portion of them falling back academically.

Vaccination rates are going well here, all teachers have been able to get vaccinated for about a month now.

Also, I'd rather accept the advice of the health care professionals over what some random parent told me. you know, science and stuff.
Sure, but here the political agenda is to open schools. Last year when there was already enough scientific evidence from reputable scientific groups that kids can transmit the disease, politicians dismissed it as it was "not peer-reviewed yet" although they jumped on every sketchy study that helped them with their agenda. But yeah, this is all bullshit. :rolleyes:

All this talk about mental health crisis, how weak are western kids these days? They are privileged compared to 95% of the rest of the world. Everybody has to do their part to get over this as quickly as possible, so why not wait another month or two until most are vaccinated. The Danish government wants to lift all restrictions once all over 50 are vaccinated. WTF? What are we younger ones, second class citizens? Why does the state not care about the wellbeing of 18-50 year old folks?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,796
5,627
Ottawa, Canada
Sure, but here the political agenda is to open schools. Last year when there was already enough scientific evidence from reputable scientific groups that kids can transmit the disease, politicians dismissed it as it was "not peer-reviewed yet" although they jumped on every sketchy study that helped them with their agenda. But yeah, this is all bullshit. :rolleyes:

All this talk about mental health crisis, how weak are western kids these days? They are privileged compared to 95% of the rest of the world. Everybody has to do their part to get over this as quickly as possible, so why not wait another month or two until most are vaccinated. The Danish government wants to lift all restrictions once all over 50 are vaccinated. WTF? What are we younger ones, second class citizens? Why does the state not care about the wellbeing of 18-50 year old folks?
Sorry, but the evidence here strongly supports the understanding that kids are not transmitting it at school. Most positive cases at schools are from children that have brought from home, but there have been few transmissions at the schools themselves. In fact, there have been no documented cases of school transmissions as far as I can recall. I'd have to double check.

You're bemoaning people who are concerned about children's mental health but are whining about feeling like a second-class citizen for not getting the vaccine?! ok.

The government here is more concerned with protecting its modest gains in controlling the virus and re-opening patios than the well-being of children. It is admittedly concerned about the "delta variant", but I think there is a notable tinge of xenophobia to that concern.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke
Unless there is widespread testing of kids at schools, and I don’t believe there is, how can they possibly say such a thing? ‘I can’t see it and haven’t looked for it so it isn’t happening’?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke

Harvard article said:
But more recent studies raise concerns that children could be capable of spreading the infection.

Though the recent studies varied in their methods, their findings were similar: infected children had as much, or more, coronavirus in their upper respiratory tracts as infected adults.

The amount of virus found in children — their viral load — was not correlated with the severity of their symptoms. In other words, more virus did not mean more severe symptoms.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke
Also:


and...
Israeli study said:
According to researchers in Israel, children 10–19 years old had a three-fold higher risk of acquiring the coronavirus after returning to school than when they still were at home.
There was an Icelandic study that did say kids were less likely to spread it in schools, but that is in an Icelandic context; 100% masks, distancing, excellent sanitation etc, not 50% mouth breathing idiots.
 
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canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,986
21,513
Canaderp
So, they kept to themselves, so they got some kind of hint that we didn’t really want to socialize. But they pissed off two of our neighbors walking their cat on their lawns. Not just from the street, but on their damn lawns. They also left a smelly garbage bag outside of the camper overnight, and we have bears. Clueless. But again, this is a favor for my brother.
I missed a post somewhere. Where are the goods?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,796
5,627
Ottawa, Canada
Unless there is widespread testing of kids at schools, and I don’t believe there is, how can they possibly say such a thing? ‘I can’t see it and haven’t looked for it so it isn’t happening’?
They had been doing aggressive contact tracing of the children that brought it to the schools (back when the schools were in person). And we had readily available testing.

edited to add: as with everything in life, it's a little more nuanced than I originally throught... https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/resources/Corona/SpecialReport_School-Based-COVID-19-Rapid-Testing-Clinics_2021Mar24.pdf

but still, overall transmission at schools was relatively low. Apparently, their modeling had showed that bringing kids back to school would lead to a increase in cases in the community of between 6 and 11% and no new deaths, with the most likely scenario being closer to the 6% figure. We are now averaging about 50 new cases a day in the city... that would be an additional 3 cases a day. as our first dose vaccination levels for people over 18 is now over 64%, and the entire population is 52%.

But regardless of all that, yeah, I'm fucking pissed that my son won't be going back to school because on-line learning has been a total failure for him.

Our Province, the richest in Canada, is one of the worst in the country in terms of vaccination roll-out, and with the amount of school closures. This Government is ideologically right-wing, and has steadfastly refused to introduce measures that would have lessened the impacts on the pandemic here, notably by refusing to implement provincially funded sick days. I have no idea how they fucked up the vaccination roll-out so badly - incompetence is the only thing I can think of. And they did sweet fuck all to reduce class sizes, and improve ventilations in schools because that would mean spending tax dollars. on kids.

So yeah, no, I'm not inclined to cut them any slack or give them the benefit of the doubt. They're idiots, and because of their idiocy, my son is struggling socially and academically. So fuck them. Fuck them to hell and back.
 
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Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke
The real question is: “who the fuck besides freaks on dead tour back in the day goes on a two month road trip with two cats in a small camper?”
I feel sorry for the cats. They are highly territorial animals. They like their natural 0.22 hectares or whatever it is
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke
They had been doing aggressive contact tracing of the children that brought it to the schools (back when the schools were in person). And we had readily available testing.
US Study said:
Children are also less likely to produce positive PCR tests, which looks for genetic material of the virus, even when they have the virus.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,733
2,712
Pōneke
Seems the upshot is kids have far less symptoms, or even none, potentially even with high viral loads actually present, normal testing doesn’t pick it up so well, and even in the positive spin stories they say ~40% as likely to transmit as adults. That’s still pretty far from zero.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,796
5,627
Ottawa, Canada
Seems the upshot is kids have far less symptoms, or even none, potentially even with high viral loads actually present, normal testing doesn’t pick it up so well, and even in the positive spin stories they say ~40% as likely to transmit as adults. That’s still pretty far from zero.
edited my post.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,986
21,513
Canaderp
To get a firm grasp of some of the decisions that have been made over the course of the last year here in Ontario, all you have to do is look at how they restricted golf.

What facts or evidence did they base their decision to say golf isn't safe on?

Golf is in no way a risk, yet it was banned. For one, you show up at your scheduled tee time. You only have so many people playing at once and majority of the time you aren't even near those people. Majority of people bring their own equipment. And that's just par for the course, not even taking into account any playing modifications for covid risks!
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,815
27,031
media blackout
To get a firm grasp of some of the decisions that have been made over the course of the last year here in Ontario, all you have to do is look at how they restricted golf.

What facts or evidence did they base their decision to say golf isn't safe on?

Golf is in no way a risk, yet it was banned. For one, you show up at your scheduled tee time. You only have so many people playing at once and majority of the time you aren't even near those people. Majority of people bring their own equipment. And that's just par for the course, not even taking into any playing modifications for covid risks!
golf is a terrible "sport" and should be eradicated.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,343
14,179
Cackalacka du Nord
@slyfink - while, as a parent of an 11yo and a 15yo i totally get the wanting kids back in a non-isolated, in-person learning environment (for both their mental health and that of their parents), how long would yours have been "back"? 2 weeks? 3? would that have made a real difference?

i told my wife last summer that i'd mentally just written off the entire upcoming year. the rollout here of getting the kids "back" in school this spring was a horrible, ever-changing mix of part time, home-for-2-weeks, back in for a while, other one's home-for-2-weeks inconsistent bullshit. it was a pain in ass.

i know it sucks but if people can keep their shit together and get their dumb asses vaccinated i'm hopeful we'll get a fall reset and be back to something closer to normal.
 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,703
3,168
Sorry, but the evidence here strongly supports the understanding that kids are not transmitting it at school. Most positive cases at schools are from children that have brought from home, but there have been few transmissions at the schools themselves. In fact, there have been no documented cases of school transmissions as far as I can recall. I'd have to double check.

Further it was reported that the risk of catching Covid was higher for people working with children (teachers, social workers and such) than other workers here in DK. Interestingly, hardware stores were closed although nearly no one got infected there while schools stayed open pretty long last year and are open again although we see outbreaks the whole time.

You're bemoaning people who are concerned about children's mental health but are whining about feeling like a second-class citizen for not getting the vaccine?! ok.
If you are so for science, show me all these studies that give evidence that children have mental health issues because of Covid. But please, do not rely on what you hear from some random parents, because science. ;)

The government here is more concerned with protecting its modest gains in controlling the virus and re-opening patios than the well-being of children. It is admittedly concerned about the "delta variant", but I think there is a notable tinge of xenophobia to that concern.
The well-being of all citizens has to be considered and a compromise to be found. What I am wondering is, how is the well-being of children impacted if they are at home? Unless you live in a shithole, in a war zone or are super poor then why is the home such a bad place? Sure, they do not see their friends as much, but having loving and caring parents should compensate for that, or?
And why are parents not concerned that their kids get infected, potentially risking long Covid or MIS-C? As protective as parents usually seem to be, not many here in DK seem to have a problem sending their kids to a potentially dangerous place. Funnily enough, all my colleagues with training in microbiology and/or medicine were more than happy when the schools closed. Maybe in-depth knowledge of the subject makes rational decisions possible?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,796
5,627
Ottawa, Canada

Further it was reported that the risk of catching Covid was higher for people working with children (teachers, social workers and such) than other workers here in DK. Interestingly, hardware stores were closed although nearly no one got infected there while schools stayed open pretty long last year and are open again although we see outbreaks the whole time.



If you are so for science, show me all these studies that give evidence that children have mental health issues because of Covid. But please, do not rely on what you hear from some random parents, because science. ;)



The well-being of all citizens has to be considered and a compromise to be found. What I am wondering is, how is the well-being of children impacted if they are at home? Unless you live in a shithole, in a war zone or are super poor then why is the home such a bad place? Sure, they do not see their friends as much, but having loving and caring parents should compensate for that, or?
And why are parents not concerned that their kids get infected, potentially risking long Covid or MIS-C? As protective as parents usually seem to be, not many here in DK seem to have a problem sending their kids to a potentially dangerous place. Funnily enough, all my colleagues with training in microbiology and/or medicine were more than happy when the schools closed. Maybe in-depth knowledge of the subject makes rational decisions possible?
This https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/cheo-joins-other-children-s-hospitals-in-declaring-mental-health-crisis-among-youth-as-pandemic-drags-on-1.5433469

This

And my own observations of my son who is completely disconnected from school, and even other children. He's not developing the skills needed to socialize, and is showing signs of struggling mentally. He's unable to control his emotions, isnt able to have appropriate social interactions with the neighborhood kids, and has feelings of being "useless " and "dumb" - those are his words. So his self esteem is shot. And he's struggling to read at a grade 1 level, even though he's supposed to be going in grade 3 next year. And will the schools keep him back? No. "They don't do that anymore". Will they offer extra resources? No, the government has frozen education spending, including teachers wages, at levels below inflation.

You might say, then teach him yourself. To which I'd say: we do. But we're not educators, speech pathologists, or learning specialists. Not to mention we still have our own jobs.

It might be possible to write off an academic year or even two for some kids, my oldest is doing surprisingly well at school, and seems quite good at being self motivated and self directed.

But there's also a shit ton of other kids like my youngest who are struggling. The effects of not being in school will outlast this pandemic. My son is well supported at home, and I know he feels loved and we can overcome this together. But how many others don't have that? School can be a safe place for them.

And then there's also this: https://www.cheo.on.ca/en/news/disturbing-trend-of-infants-coming-to-cheo-with-head-trauma.aspx

So yeah, I feel like prioritizing reopening patios and pubs - as the Premier has asked for a day after saying it's unsafe to open schools - is a crock of shit. I think the kids are more important. Fuck Ford.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,796
5,627
Ottawa, Canada
This https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/cheo-joins-other-children-s-hospitals-in-declaring-mental-health-crisis-among-youth-as-pandemic-drags-on-1.5433469

This

And my own observations of my son who is completely disconnected from school, and even other children. He's not developing the skills needed to socialize, and is showing signs of struggling mentally. He's unable to control his emotions, isnt able to have appropriate social interactions with the neighborhood kids, and has feelings of being "useless " and "dumb" - those are his words. So his self esteem is shot. And he's struggling to read at a grade 1 level, even though he's supposed to be going in grade 3 next year. And will the schools keep him back? No. "They don't do that anymore". Will they offer extra resources? No, the government has frozen education spending, including teachers wages, at levels below inflation.

You might say, then teach him yourself. To which I'd say: we do. But we're not educators, speech pathologists, or learning specialists. Not to mention we still have our own jobs.

It might be possible to write off an academic year or even two for some kids, my oldest is doing surprisingly well at school, and seems quite good at being self motivated and self directed.

But there's also a shit ton of other kids like my youngest who are struggling. The effects of not being in school will outlast this pandemic. My son is well supported at home, and I know he feels loved and we can overcome this together. But how many others don't have that? School can be a safe place for them.

And then there's also this: https://www.cheo.on.ca/en/news/disturbing-trend-of-infants-coming-to-cheo-with-head-trauma.aspx

So yeah, I feel like prioritizing reopening patios and pubs - as the Premier has asked for a day after saying it's unsafe to open schools - is a crock of shit. I think the kids are more important. Fuck Ford.
Moar: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ontario-science-table-warns-of-potential-for-long-term-effects-from-school-closures-1.5457832
 
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