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Orange 322 Prototype DH bike

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
I like it, thanks for posting- I'm actually researching/shopping for a high/forward single pivot bike at the moment. Might buy next year, so this looks cool :)
 

monkeyfcuker

Monkey
May 26, 2008
912
8
UK, Carlisle
I'm struggling to keep up here, we hate on companies 'cos bearings wear out fast, someone decides to change a proto to keep it simple and ditch bearings and we also hate? Where the fook do I direct my Internet hatred?!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I love how after a couple posts about dirt and jones it suddenly became fashionable to bash orange. RM fashions slowly convince me no one thinks for themselves on here...
I really like this bike. It adresses the main problem 224 had - degressive curve.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
i don't think the comments should all be construed as negative. i was being sarcastic myself (ie, omg new model! ... aaand they moved the pivot by 3mm). i actually respect their developmental path of refinement & simplicity.
 

Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
I like it, thanks for posting- I'm actually researching/shopping for a high/forward single pivot bike at the moment. Might buy next year, so this looks cool :)
To me this is the main problem with this bike. They took away the one thing they had going for them, the high pivot.

Ugh.
 

ATOMICFIREBALL

DISARMED IN A BATTLE OF WITS
May 26, 2004
1,354
0
Tennessee
That's cool.I like that frame.
Because the rising rate is built into the design, it’ll work just as well with simpler shocks such as the plain Fox Vanilla coilover rather than needing a more expensive shock to get the best out of it.
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
So the pivot is lower- and that's debatable whether it's better ot not, and the shock's lower as well. Is it less regressive though? Is the relationship between the shock and the swingarm any different than before?

I think the pivot could be in a variety of locations and feel good, but falling rate- it has no place in DH.

Judging from my old YETI ASX that had a similar linkage to the previuos Orange proto...linkage isn't allways the answer if it can't provide a steady progresive curve. If the linkage went falling/rising or rising/falling it probably wasn't worth the weight, and it probably was maginally better if at all than no linkage at all.

Maybe one of you masters of the internet has some Orange pics stored to throw up here for comparison.
 

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
clearly everyone here has ridden an orange and knows what they are talking about.

clearly...
i actually have ridden a few of them

but your argument is like saying just because i haven't driven a yugo means i don't have a right to say it's tiny and it's antiquated.....

i don't have to ride the newest iteration of an orange to say that single pivots are outdated
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Real Question: So whats the difference?

Idiot comment: It looks like a Big Hit Grom.

Incredibly insightful commentary (lol no): When a company goes from one version to another, with slightly different details, I suppose it can be seen as a refinement and tweaking of a solid design. With Orange, I'm not so sure. Reason being is that it FEELS more like change for the sake of marketing, rather than any real necessity. Unfortunately for Orange, this sort of thing is almost a requirement when dealing with the brain-injured squirrels that are MOST of todays DH market.

I will say that when they go from adding a link back to a single pivot, it almost looks like admitting a mistake. Its like they are saying "yeah that whole link added thingy, yeah just nevermind about that" which is fine, except if you bought one.

As it sits it just looks like the frame goes linear then progressive, which is nice of course, but hardly anything new. Would be nice to at least see multiple shock mounts to adjust things, which might benefit a few people with such a simple frame.

And now, the DIRT REVIEW: This is the new Orange. Its awesome, corners, jumps, climbs, eats rocks and roots, weighs 3 pounds, cures cancer, makes your gentlemens veg larger, hail Britannia, God bless the Queen, SAY NO MORE!"

 
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S.G.D

Monkey
Jun 14, 2002
505
0
Vancouver
i actually have ridden a few of them

but your argument is like saying just because i haven't driven a yugo means i don't have a right to say it's tiny and it's antiquated.....

i don't have to ride the newest iteration of an orange to say that single pivots are outdated

I think by 'outdated' you mean 'out of fashion on the internet.'

it's long, it's low, it's slack, it's light and in the right hands i can guarantee you this bike will be fast just like all it's predecessors.
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I can't see this new design being much more progressive than the old one. You have to make pretty drastic changes in shock orientation when using a single pivot to create the kind of progressive curve that you get with linkage bikes. I'm guessing this bike will still have a pretty flat rate.

That combined with the lower pivot, well, I'm not getting it.

Add in the fact that the downtube divot adds weight and well...I'm scratching my head.

Orange does get input from some good riders in the UK, and they have gone through some various prototypes (which I see as a good thing). The old 224 is certainly not a bad bike, and if this is a little better for whatever reason, then I guess that's good enough for them.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
So the pivot is lower- and that's debatable whether it's better ot not, and the shock's lower as well. Is it less regressive though? Is the relationship between the shock and the swingarm any different than before?

I think the pivot could be in a variety of locations and feel good, but falling rate- it has no place in DH.

Judging from my old YETI ASX that had a similar linkage to the previuos Orange proto...linkage isn't allways the answer if it can't provide a steady progresive curve. If the linkage went falling/rising or rising/falling it probably wasn't worth the weight, and it probably was maginally better if at all than no linkage at all.

Maybe one of you masters of the internet has some Orange pics stored to throw up here for comparison.
Wont comment on the pivot placement but looking at the shock it should be slightly progressive compared to degressive 224. A big change. The only thing 224 really needed imho.

i actually have ridden a few of them

but your argument is like saying just because i haven't driven a yugo means i don't have a right to say it's tiny and it's antiquated.....

i don't have to ride the newest iteration of an orange to say that single pivots are outdated
Tell me what is your current bike that is so superior to sp's.
Yes Virtual pivot designs have certain advantages over sp bikes but in most cases mfg's can't take advantage of them if we speak leverage curve, axle path. Of course there is the "omg no braek jak" part but the differance is quite small.

Please list real advantages of your bike over a proper single pivot.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
you can tell that from the picture? :confused:
It's not rocket science -the back shock bolt being higher than the front one usually means progressive, depends on where it all goes next but looking at the hole there isn't much place for the back bolt to go down. I know it's a simplification but it's a good rule of thumb. I know it's not the most accurate tool but that's what linkage does - give it a bike picture and it will tell you that.


he rides a DW bike. nuff said.
Aye. That DW is what Tony Ellsworth claims slowly get boring. We all know Sp is 103% moar efficent than DW plus less pivotz means moar chicks.
 
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Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
276
59
Spain
I love how after a couple posts about dirt and jones it suddenly became fashionable to bash orange. RM fashions slowly convince me no one thinks for themselves on here...
I really like this bike. It adresses the main problem 224 had - degressive curve.
Going from Degressive to slightly Progressive is not what I call "Adressing the problem". But it's not bad either. Anyway, it looks like they have gone to a shorter Shock (8.75x2x75) and the main pivot is now too low...
 

Jase76

Monkey
Aug 10, 2007
176
0
Australia
Lol. This forum gets closer to Pinkbike every day.

Just because the suspension design isn't "ALL NEW" with a TLA designed by DW with YAW for you GNAR! Doesn't mean this bike won't rip. I've owned a lot of different bikes, many with TLA's and none rode better than my 224 evo. Its simple, light with excellent geo. Thats really all you need in a DH bike.

But try telling that to riders from the most marketing hyped nation on the planet. Its kind of pathetic really.
 
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4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
To me this is the main problem with this bike. They took away the one thing they had going for them, the high pivot.

Ugh.
Well, it's still sort of high, right?

Perhaps the idea is for this thing is to have a slightly lower center of gravity. Espcially compared to some of the prototypes that they had out.

I mean, it is still a prototype, so maybe the pivot will get higher again!
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
Since we're talking about orange, what is their reputation for long term durability? I'm thinking about buying a used 224 to try out.
 

Acadian

Born Again Newbie
Sep 5, 2001
714
2
Blah Blah and Blah
i actually have ridden a few of them

but your argument is like saying just because i haven't driven a yugo means i don't have a right to say it's tiny and it's antiquated.....

i don't have to ride the newest iteration of an orange to say that single pivots are outdated
I would expect comments like this from a lot of folks, but not from you.
 

Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
I would expect comments like this from a lot of folks, but not from you.
Agreed.


4130: The pivot while being a bit forward, would now be considered low. Also it is important to remember that as BB's get lower, if pivots are not moved up, the axle path gets less rearward. This is why I said what I did. New oranges are lower than the old ones by a fair margin, and then this proto has a lower pivot to boot.

Edit: At the end of the day marketing sells 90% of all bikes anyways, so I really don't know why we even bother talking about this stuff. I was just thinking about this after making this post...
 
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Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
Tell me what is your current bike that is so superior to sp's.
Yes Virtual pivot designs have certain advantages over sp bikes but in most cases mfg's can't take advantage of them if we speak leverage curve, axle path. Of course there is the "omg no braek jak" part but the differance is quite small.

Please list real advantages of your bike over a proper single pivot.
it has a linkage which prevents bottoming and gives a controlled rate, plus helps keeps it up in it's travel(dw link) pedals better, better axle path for carrying speed over mid sized hits....let me count the ways....
 

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
I would expect comments like this from a lot of folks, but not from you.
I'll be honest, my main point is that one can make some inferences about a certain design even if they haven't ridden it....the guy who I was replying TK had the whole, "if you've never ridden it you aren't entitled to an opinion about it" attitude so I sort of butted in(brashly)....

I'm sure its a great bike, there were attributes I did like regarding the oranges I've ridden. I personally think the design is a little dated...
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I think Orange is designing this around the RC4, which is a progressive shock so to speak with its bottom out feature. I read elsewhere that the 225 linkage they had designed didn't work well with the RC4 (unconfirmed). The 225 linkage was progressive, but had a pocket around the sag point (kind of like Santa Cruz is marketing for their APP bikes). I discussed with with one of their test riders. He was liking it at the time...

This new bike with a linear or slightly progressive curve will be fine for an RC4, but I'd personally want something more progressive than this new bike if you are running a shock without a bottom out feature built in. That said, I've heard pretty rave reviews about Oranges with CCDBs (probably because the leverage curve is so linear).

As for someone worried about the axle path of a single pivot bike, they need to get their facts straight...there is minimal difference in terms of rearward travel between most highish single pivot bikes and most linkage bikes. Chaingrowth at the end of travel is a different story.
 

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
I think by 'outdated' you mean 'out of fashion on the internet.'

it's long, it's low, it's slack, it's light and in the right hands i can guarantee you this bike will be fast just like all it's predecessors.

I'm not arguing that. I'm just think there are better offerings out there. Not trying to start some crazy argument. Just stating my opinion....And above all I was saying you know certain attributes of a bike without having actually ridden it....