Cool. I thought it was just frozen burritos.Originally posted by BurlySurly
I also like tacos.
Cool. I thought it was just frozen burritos.Originally posted by BurlySurly
I also like tacos.
This is not true, by any stretch. Could i see some figures, or did you just make it up?Originally posted by rubberpoliceman
Why does the US have, for instance, the highest murder rate of ANY country in the world?
Originally posted by rubberpoliceman
what is "best" for the population, then how do you explain the state of violent crime here? Why does the US have, for instance, the highest murder rate of ANY country in the world?
Is it perhaps that our leaders make decisions based instead on monetary gain, and the power that comes with it?
Yes, this is rhetorical...
just wanted to restate since the point didn't seem to be made.Originally posted by Stellite
I guess that doesn't include the state sponsored murders that the tyrants use.
I agree however, that we are one of the few countries that has honestly reported murders. Most countries won't report that, since they don't want tourism to be hurt.
Oh, by the way, when you visit the philipines becareful which Islands you go to. Oh and when you go to columbia, becareful where you drive, and if you go to anywhere in Africa, good luck. Ukraine? not for me. Russia, well who exactly controls it, the Government or the Mob? As for the state of violent crime, the entire world has it. Go to MExico and get ticketed every 5 miles
If you have ever travelled outside this country you will realize how much safer you feel inside it. It is amazing how much safer it is in the US. Even people from other euro/asia/africa/southamerican countries always tell me how much safer they feel in the US from crime. They know that only have to deal with some criminals but in their countries they may have to deal with criminals and corrupt cops/military etc..
I was gunna say the same thing.Originally posted by Stellite
So Kashmir, Kabul, Baghdad, Tikrit, Rio(known for it's violence), TJ, Puerto Rico (known for it's violence), Moscow, Ukraine (Known for violence especialy against visitors), Philipines (Muslim controled islands), etc. etc.????? are not in the top 12, gee I guess not everyone reports the truth do they. I think your list is way off. As bad as the crime rate is here it is better than most parts of the world.
It appears they made it up.Originally posted by BurlySurly
This is not true, by any stretch. Could i see some figures, or did you just make it up?
Hey look, France and Canada are both lower than the US. The french really are lovers not fighters. That's why the Germans love them so much. Come here my little fraughline, I have a bratwurst for you.Originally posted by DRB
It appears they made it up.
This is a sampling of various rates per 100000.
US 5.61
South Africa 114.84
Venezuela 33.20
Ukraine 9.63
Uraguay 6.67
Russia 22.43
Jamaica 44.34
France 4.07
Columbia 69.98
Brazil 22.98
Canada 4.10
These self reported figures from Interpol. They are not necessarily the current year but from 2000, 2001 or 2002. The US figure matches that provided by the DOJ and media collected figures as well.
Statistics can lie most certainly but let's take into consideration the source of the two sets put forth here. I have read the BBC article and they list NO SOURCES as to where the data came from or who was responsible for collecting and interpeting that data. Also if the results had not come out the way they did could they have used the fancy tag line thus increasing hits and reads on that particular article. The Interpol figures are very well documented as to source and considered accuracy by country. There is no conclusion reached by Interpol just a representation of the numbers as provided by various nations. Again the numbers provided for the US match very closely with the figures published by the DOJ and other US organizations.Originally posted by Thepagoda
As for crime, I see that there is some dispute about the numbers. everybody knows that stats can lie. hopefully everybody knows that the way the stats are collected will also dramatically affect the results. So I encourage everybody to read the article that the BBC posted (linked by Mr. Rubberpoliceman) because it has statistics about specific cities. the rebuttal to this artifact, put forth by Mr. DRB also has relevent information. OK, so maybe the US is not the worst nation in the world, but why don't we examine what everybody globally considers our coevals: Other developed nations. The nations on the list that fall below the US in terms of murder rates per capita are France and Canada, the only other truly 1st world nations on the list. (Go ahead dismiss the frenchies for being lovers, but it might not be so funny to offer your murdered friends bratworst.) So what are the implications? the implications are that the USA is not dealing with the crime problem as well as other peer nations, and a failure to adress those problems will only widen the gap.
Originally posted by rubberpoliceman
I agree statistics can and almost always are misleading. Admittedly, I often fall into the same behavior used by the media: i.e. trying to find stats to support a specific belief. Seek and ye shall find, they say; and you can make the numbers say anything you want.
This is all sort of getting away from the issue though. What I really wished to elucidate was that there IS indeed a problem with crime in this country, and that it cannot be seen as an isolated phenomenon. --NO, YOU WISHED TO STATE THAT THE US HAD THE WORST CRIME RATE IN THE WORLD
It is indeed directly related (I think, at least) to the general malaise among the populace which can ultimately be attributed to ignorance. It doesn't seem to be a mere coincidence that nations (such as Switzerland, Norway, Belgium, etc.) which place more emphasis (i.e. funding) on such niceties as education, foreign aid, health care, etc., have conversely lower rates of crime and higher standards of living.
What about this radical idea: Shouldn't a "first-world" nation on this industrialized planet spend MORE (many times more, even) to educate it's own citizens than it does to kill citizens of other nations? RUSSIA AND CHINA SHOULD SPEND MORE THAN KILLING OTHERS AS WELL AS THEIR OWN PEOPLE. FRANCE AND GERMANY SHOULD STOP PROLIFIRATING WHICH CAUSES COUNTLESS DEATHS. WHO IS GOING TO CAST THE FIRST STONE?
Why shouldn't teaching be elevated from its marginalized position in this society, so that it actually becomes a desirable profession with respectable pay? Then maybe we can get to work on a reality TV show about teachers...all their inside drama and office romance...it'll make more money than American Idol!--I AGREE THAT TEACHERS ARE NOT PAID ENOUGH, BUT NEITHER IS LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THEY WORK TO KEEP YOU SAFE FROM THE BAD GUYS
Is this going to be a theme with your posts, where you just abnoxiously state untrue facts and jargon...or were you planning on forming an actual debate sometime?Originally posted by rubberpoliceman
Shouldn't a "first-world" nation on this industrialized planet spend MORE (many times more, even) to educate it's own citizens than it does to kill citizens of other nations?
Originally posted by BurlySurly
Is this going to be a theme with your posts, where you just abnoxiously state untrue facts and jargon...or were you planning on forming an actual debate sometime?
I haven't seen much more than assertions from you either Mr. Burly Surly, but in any event the total defense spending for 2003 including outlays, sourced from the DoD website ( http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/defbudget/fy2003/fy03_greenbook.pdf ) is $775.18 Billion US. the 2000-2001 budget for education was (numbers taken from aforementioned US gov website) 678.2 billion. So there are the numbers to support the statement that the US spends more on defense than it does on education. If you don't believe the numbers, look at where I got them: From the US Government's sites. Education is a wonderful thing...Originally posted by BurlySurly
Is this going to be a theme with your posts, where you just abnoxiously state untrue facts and jargon...or were you planning on forming an actual debate sometime?
Originally posted by Thepagoda
I haven't seen much more than assertions from you either Mr. Burly Surly, but in any event the total defense spending for 2003 including outlays, sourced from the DoD website ( http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/defbudget/fy2003/fy03_greenbook.pdf ) is $775.18 Billion US. the 2000-2001 budget for education was (numbers taken from aforementioned US gov website) 678.2 billion. So there are the numbers to support the statement that the US spends more on defense than it does on education. If you don't believe the numbers, look at where I got them: From the US Government's sites. Education is a wonderful thing...
The documents you're referring to were not forged by the U.S. You can bet that if they were, they certainly would have been alot better fakes. Iraq's threat to the U.S. was and still may be very real.Originally posted by rubberpoliceman
Sorry man, didn't mean to be abnoxious. And I don't think my assertion about the "kill citizens of other nations" budget was that far off. This war we are waging at present isn't doing anything to "defend" the united states, because Iraq was not an imminent threat. The pretenses for the war have been fabricated, and if you need proof of that, just look at the stories of forged documents used to provide proof of Iraq's nuclear program (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030331fa_fact1). There is much more proof, such as the US gov'ts illegal surveillance of UN delegates, etc.. I will find sources for that if you desire.