[$tinkle]

in order to apply for a visa to visit the kingdom, you must fill out a visa app, (another version found on the embassy site), both of which ask for your religion. No biggie, right? However, from the official saudi tourism site:(this has since been removed, but the WSJ has preserved it)

• Visas will not be issued for the following groups of people:
• An Israeli passport holder or a passport that has an Israeli arrival/departure stamp.
• Those who don't abide by the Saudi traditions concerning appearance and behaviors.
• Jewish People
• Those under the influence of alcohol will not be permitted into the Kingdom.

There are certain regulations for pilgrims and you should contact the consulate for more information.

i should have posted this yesterday, when the cached version had not yet been overwritten (having problems w/ scripting overwriting cached address - go find it yourself)

...anyhow, with this and some other scary news story last week about speculation the oil fields are drying up, isn't it high time we throw dog poop on their shoes and say "i break with thee" three times?


edit: UAE has similar policy

 

[jdcamb]

Originally posted by $tinkle
we throw dog poop on their shoes and say "i break with thee" three times?

Great Cruel Shoes reference....I am always looking for ways to insert that joke into everyday conversations....nobody ever gets it even after I explain it to them.....geesh!

Well in the fall of 1990 I was lucky enough to go to Saudi Arabia. I arrived from Germany and the second I got off the plane....a Scud warning went off. Welcome to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I was on a safe base in Riyadh and it was possibly the most boring 6 weeks of my life, no beer, no music, no nothing. It was a really freaky place. Even when someone spoke english, they wouldn't speak directly to you. Very weird folks, they won't look you in the eye or even say hello. I tried the allah akbar thing once and they freaking ran away from me.....I mean literally. They have everything setup seperately for themselves and foriegners. Toilets (no TP!), shopping, resturants, everything, the folks over there almost seem afraid of you. So unless you have a reason to be there everyone is not welcome there is my impression. Have you ever been to Mesa Arizona? Well imagine that without strip malls.....you got Saudi Arabia. There is absolutely no reason for you to go there.....jdcamb

 

[derekbob]

as long as GWB is in office well be closely tied to the Saudis

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by derekbob
as long as GWB is in office well be closely tied to the Saudis

has kerry said or implied that he would fix that, or are you just trolling?

let the record show, i'd be in lock-step w/ that decision. i'm not an isolationist-separatist, we just simply shouldn't be in bed w/ some folks - most notably the saudis. they bring nothing positive to the int'l table.

 

[Tenchiro]

When hasn't this country been in bed with Saudi Arabia?

 

[Damn True]

Concur on the "wierdness" of Saudi Arabia. Ive been there, and also to the UAE, Bahrain, Kuait and Qatar. The UAE is actually a pretty comfortable place for an American to just be cruising around.

 

[derekbob]

Originally posted by $tinkle
has kerry said or implied that he would fix that, or are you just trolling?

let the record show, i'd be in lock-step w/ that decision. i'm not an isolationist-separatist, we just simply shouldn't be in bed w/ some folks - most notably the saudis. they bring nothing positive to the int'l table.

I havent heard Kerry say anything about the Saudis, Im just sayin: Bush has close ties with both the Saudi royal family and the Bin Ladens. Im not sure what trolling (online anyway) is.

I dont like the Saudis either, if GWB would have invaded Saudi Arabia instead of Afganistan and Iraq I would have supported that action.

 

[Tenchiro]

When I worked for Merril Lynch one of our brokers was an Arab based out of the UK but travelling to the UAE on some sort of business. He needed a dial up for his modem, and the closest one was in Israel.

He absolutely refused to use that and ended up just paying the long distance to the UK out of his pocket.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by derekbob
I havent heard Kerry say anything about the Saudis, Im just sayin: Bush has close ties with both the Saudi royal family and the Bin Ladens.

now i'm really confused.

i've read rightwingers lob shots that clinton was chummy w/ the saudis (& they're fullacrap), but this is the first i've read that dubya's close to the royal family & the bin ladens. Perhaps this was exaggerated from bin laden's relatives being whisked out of country right after 9-11?

Please educate on this new-to-me development.

Originally posted by derekbob
I dont like the Saudis either, if GWB would have invaded Saudi Arabia instead of Afganistan and Iraq I would have supported that action.

and people think he's a war monger now, just imagine if we had done that: his nickname would change from dubya to dubya-dubya-three

 

[derekbob]

In case you didnt know, everyone outside of this country already thinks of GWB in that manner, and I dont think its very far from the truth.

As far as the Bush/Saud/BinLaden connection, Ive mainly heard of it thru word of mouth from my fellow libs. So I went lookin and found a bunch of speculative stuff that didnt look very concrete (Like the stuff N8 Posts all the time )

I did find this on www.villagevoice.com (which looks more legit imo):

"But now Klayman and Judicial Watch are pawing in disbelief through President George W. Bush's past business connections with the Saudi-based Bin Laden family. The firm is demanding that GWB's father, the original President Bush, immediately resign from his post as a paid senior adviser to the Carlyle Group, a private Washington equity firm that according to The New York Times has essentially become the nation's 11th largest defense contractor.

Carlyle's investors include the Bin Laden family, which has disowned its terrorist son Osama; Bush Sr.; and former Bush inner guard members Nick Carlucci and James Baker. Judicial Watch says all involved stand to benefit from any increase in U.S. defense spending.

"It's mind-boggling," says Klayman. "This conflict of interest has now turned into a scandal." With the recent U.S. air strikes in Afghanistan, Klayman says, the conflict of interest is now "direct."

Klayman questions why Bush the Younger is not aggressively pursuing Saudi Arabia, a country known to harbor terrorists. He points to Bush the Elder's business connections there, like the Saudi-based Bin Laden family, through Carlyle. "President Bush should not ask, but demand, that his father pull out of the Carlyle Group," says Klayman.

Neither former president Bush—who has continued advising his son on handling the war on terrorism—nor the Carlyle Group returned calls seeking comment.

In a case of "like father, like son," President Bush also had connections to the Carlyle Group, the Voice has learned. In the years before his 1994 bid for Texas governor, Bush owned stock in and sat on the board of directors of Caterair, a service company that provided airplane food and was also a component of Carlyle. For his consulting position, Bush was paid $15,000 a year, according to a Texas insider, and a bonus $1000 for every meeting he attended—roughly $75,000 in total. Reports show Carlyle was also a major contributor to his electoral fund.

Upon hearing about the Bush-Bin Laden family connection, other Washington nonprofits have joined Judicial Watch in expressing their concern.

"Carlyle is as deeply wired into the current administration as they can possibly be," Charles Lewis, executive director of the Center for Public Integrity, told Bushwatch.org. "George Bush is getting money from private interests that have business before the government, while his son is president. And, in a really peculiar way, George W. Bush could, some day, benefit financially from his own administration's decisions, through his father's investments. The average American doesn't know that. To me, that's a jaw-dropper." "

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by derekbob
In case you didnt know, everyone outside of this country already thinks of GWB in that manner, and I dont think its very far from the truth.

just a cursory googling of "george bush" "bin laden" and "connection" returned http://www.bushnews.com/bushmoney.htm (among the other 35,000 pages). Sure seems like something the dems better leverage. It'll most likely be through e-blasts & other underground methods, a-la kerry & all his vietnam baggage.

on the face, it appears bush has called for detente. I think kerry's got pictures of his daughters.

 

[zod]

yea, it's Bush's fault and his Daddy's too.....and his dog

 

[LordOpie]

Saudi Arabia?

I think I speak for all Jews when I say we'd rather vacation in Aspen... just gotta watch out for those time share salespeople zombies.

 

[jdcamb]

Originally posted by derekbob
as long as GWB is in office well be closely tied to the Saudis

Yeah Mr. Clinton so cracked down on them too.... The bread is buttered in a rather partisan fashion on the subject of oil pal....

 

[derekbob]

Originally posted by jdcamb
Yeah Mr. Clinton so cracked down on them too.... The bread is buttered in a rather partisan fashion on the subject of oil pal....

Yea our 2 countries are in a screwed up marriage of convenience and its not all the fault of the Bush family. Im just sayin: if its gonna change, it wont happen while GWB is in office.

And its not a matter of anyone cracking down on anyone, no one is cracking down on the Saudis, but someone is taking their money. The saudi royal family and The Bin Ladens obviously see it in their best interest to have GWB in the white house. Stinkle says we should wash our hands of the Saudis, and I agree wholeheartedly, but if anyone really wants to accomplish this, they shouldnt vote for a Bush

 

[fluff]

Should N8's worst nightmares come true and Kerry becomes president, then I will eat my trousers if he does anything damaging to US-Saudi relations.

Maybe Kucinch or Sharpton might but they're almost as far from the presidency as I am.

 

[Silver]

The real question is why are we friends with a government that is totalitarian and fairly brutal on the scale of things?

Oh yeah, we need the oil. Maybe the chest beating about how the US is the best and most moral country can stop then. That whole freedom thing GWB likes to bring out is bullsh!t.

They hate our freedom, right? Or do they hate the fact that the developed world frequently waxes poetic about the worth of democracy and then cozies up to dictators whenever it becomes "necessary."

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by fluff
Should N8's worst nightmares come true and Kerry becomes president, then I will eat my trousers

Burly, you said you were looking for a reason to vote for Kerry and hadn't found one. I present to you: fluff munching on his own shorts.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Silver
The real question is why are we friends with a government that is totalitarian and fairly brutal on the scale of things

"Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer."

Heck, why is China our "favorite nation"?

 

[Joe]

The Bin Ladens are powerful over in Saudi Arabia. They nearly built the country. and bush is tied to them.

Its all about cash, Saudi Arabia has a lot of money tied up in the US.

Where did 15 of the highjackers of 9 11 come from? Saudi Arabia.

Not to mention there human rights violations.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

religious fanatics are fVcked up/

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by ohio
Burly, you said you were looking for a reason to vote for Kerry and hadn't found one. I present to you: fluff munching on his own shorts.

If only I could be assured that he meant it, then yes, entertainment via someone else's humiliation would definitely be worth watching Kerry screw around for the next few years.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
If only I could be assured that he meant it, then yes, entertainment via someone else's humiliation would definitely be worth watching Kerry screw around for the next few years.

I did mean it, but Ohio has only quoted half of the necessary criteria. I think he may actually get elected, but it was whether he would then jeopardise US - Saudi relations. Basically I don't think this issue is purely down to the Bushs or the Republican party.