[Transcend]

maybe an eruption will blow up all the dumb stunts (how's that for politics).

dear lord, spomer and I want the same outcome. :dancing:

 

[Curiouscaptian01]

indeed! propigating mass hysteria is fun, though.

SEATTLE WILL BE ENGULFED BY FIERY RIVERS OF HOT MAG-MA!!1!!1!

man reminds me of Tears For Fears for some reason....

 

[Toshi]

Because we don't have an "increased seismic activity" forum?

that's called "the lounge". also note that the forum where pac nw monkies tend to be found is called "pacific nw"

ink:

 

[Dingus McGee]

that's called "the lounge". also note that the forum where pac nw monkies tend to be found is called "pacific nw"

ink:

I went to the Lounge once, but everyone was crippling wit respect.

 

[BSN_mt]

Seattle would be buried under hundreds of feet of mud, making the region almost inhabitable.

1. That is where I got the extremely random quote from.

2. Do you have any idea how much material 20' to 40' of material would be over the Seattle Metropolitan area. Yea, there very well could be a location that would have over 100 feet of material on it, but to say the Seattle area just isn't feasible.

Point in case:

Approximately 40 miles of land (Lynwood to Tacoma) at approximately 13 mile wide (width of I-5 corridor) would be 520 square miles or 14.5 billion square feet. So you take 20' (low estimate) of material and you come up with 290 billion cubic feet of material.

Now, assuming that Mt. Rainer did erupt and that the entire mountain went into the air and was deposited onto the above stated area we could conclude the following: Mt. Rainer has 35 square miles of snow/ice covered cap (National Park Info) or approximately 1 billion square feet. Assuming a perfect pyramid (larger than a cone), in order to produce the 290 cubic feet the top 891 feet would have to be blown away.

You could do the math a thousand different ways, but there still isn't enough material in there to even get close to the 20' feet of cover.

My point was that to make statements that are a false representation of the actual facts is wrong.

 

[Toshi]

some material comes from below the surface as well. it need not all come from the mountain's bulk.

 

[Tully]

I heard it should only affect those within a five-mile range, but that is obviously pretty hard to call.

 

[COmtbiker12]

man reminds me of Tears For Fears for some reason....

Thats weird, they just came on my radio right as I read it....

 

[kidwoo]

a) what's with the 'tude lately? My statement was hardly unreasonable.
b) interesting, I didn't know the following:
Although leaves of plants produce oxygen (O2) from CO2 during photosynthesis, their roots need to absorb O2 directly. The high CO2 concentrations in the soil on Mammoth Mountain are killing trees by denying their roots O2 and by interfering with nutrient uptake. In the areas of tree kill, CO2 makes up about 20 to 95% of the gas content of the soil; soil gas normally contains 1% or less CO2.
c) Ive spent quite a bit of time on Aviators O2 with no ill effects with no ill effect with no ill effects with no ill effects with no ill effects

No tude. I was just trying to make a point about too much of anything, even if biologically beneficial at certain quantities, can reach toxic levels. Like straight oxygen to you and me, too much CO2 to trees, and your completely unfounded hatred towards single pivots since you got a job at fsr world. That and the fact that I really wanted to brag about the fact that I work with two of the guys who have been studying mammoth and the long valley caldera for the last dozen or so years. They're smart and accomplished and I just wanted to ride their tails for the sake of this thread and since dingus brought it up. No hatred towards you, I promise. Watch this:

Hey Fraser, try that O2 straight, without a regulator that mixes atmospheric air with it and tell me what happens.

(see? I'm a dick to everyone, not just you).


I was serious about horshoe lake on the back side of the hill though. If you're ever there go check it out. Just don't camp. People have died of asphixiation in their sleep back there.

 

[Damn True]

Seattle would be buried under hundreds of feet of mud, making the region almost inhabitable.

1. That is where I got the extremely random quote from.

2. Do you have any idea how much material 20' to 40' of material would be over the Seattle Metropolitan area. Yea, there very well could be a location that would have over 100 feet of material on it, but to say the Seattle area just isn't feasible.

Point in case:

Approximately 40 miles of land (Lynwood to Tacoma) at approximately 13 mile wide (width of I-5 corridor) would be 520 square miles or 14.5 billion square feet. So you take 20' (low estimate) of material and you come up with 290 billion cubic feet of material.

Now, assuming that Mt. Rainer did erupt and that the entire mountain went into the air and was deposited onto the above stated area we could conclude the following: Mt. Rainer has 35 square miles of snow/ice covered cap (National Park Info) or approximately 1 billion square feet. Assuming a perfect pyramid (larger than a cone), in order to produce the 290 cubic feet the top 891 feet would have to be blown away.

You could do the math a thousand different ways, but there still isn't enough material in there to even get close to the 20' feet of cover.

My point was that to make statements that are a false representation of the actual facts is wrong.

Well math or no math, it would still be a lot of stuff.
:eviltongu

 

[Damn True]

I heard it should only affect those within a five-mile range, but that is obviously pretty hard to call.

My family and I drove from San Jose to Seattle in '80. The land was gray (ash covered) from waaaaaaaaaaay south of Portland clear past Tacoma.
Far more than 5mi in any direction.

I think I still have some pics my Dad and I took off the bridge that crosses the Toutle (sp?) river. The mud line was at least 30' up the trees on the bank of the river. There was a crapload of stuff coming down that river.
My ex-wife grew up in Astoria (at the mouth of the Colombia river) she had a photo of her and her brother standing next to a hunk of pumice on the beach that was at least 10' in dia.

 

[zedro]

Well math or no math, it would still be a lot of stuff.
:eviltongu

yeah, and lets not forget the volcanic barf that comes with pooping the top off

 

[Transcend]

My family and I drove from San Jose to Seattle in '80. The land was gray (ash covered) from waaaaaaaaaaay south of Portland clear past Tacoma.
Far more than 5mi in any direction.

I think I still have some pics my Dad and I took off the bridge that crosses the Toutle (sp?) river. The mud line was at least 30' up the trees on the bank of the river. There was a crapload of stuff coming down that river.
My ex-wife grew up in Astoria (at the mouth of the Colombia river) she had a photo of her and her brother standing next to a hunk of pumice on the beach that was at least 10' in dia.

When st helens blew, there was major ash deposits (inches+) falling as far away as colorado and montana. These guys math doesn't count all the crap that is flying up from miles BELOW the surface of the caldera

 

[BSN_mt]

The environmental and economical impacts from an event of that size would be huge. More than huge, it would be big enough that people would probably stop moving to the PNW for a while, and in all honesty, it would make the issues that people are seeing in places like Flodia and the tornado ally states seem insignificant, but it wouldn’t leave "hundreds of feet" of material over the Seattle area. If anything, most of the ash would be over the eastern part of the state anyway (follows Mt. St. Helen's eruption path due to jet stream). The point of that math was to show that while statements like that can appear true at a glance, the true outcome is would be completely different. Look at ST. Helen’s, yea, the debris flows were close to 30' deep, but it was constricted to a tight channel, not the "Seattle Area"

Know if he had said that drainage channels in the Seattle are could see flash floods with increase depths of 20', then yea. But ash coverage would be in inches, possibly feet.

 

[Jm_]

Man, if this thing blows it will be disastrous for Bush's campaign. How will he explain letting this happen on his watch?

Simple: Iran gets bombed for their ties to terrorist geological events.

A war on volcanoes.

 

[Jm_]

a) what's with the 'tude lately? My statement was hardly unreasonable.
b) interesting, I didn't know the following:
Although leaves of plants produce oxygen (O2) from CO2 during photosynthesis, their roots need to absorb O2 directly. The high CO2 concentrations in the soil on Mammoth Mountain are killing trees by denying their roots O2 and by interfering with nutrient uptake. In the areas of tree kill, CO2 makes up about 20 to 95% of the gas content of the soil; soil gas normally contains 1% or less CO2.
c) Ive spent quite a bit of time on Aviators O2 with no ill effects with no ill effect with no ill effects with no ill effects with no ill effects

yeah, that finally makes sense.

also, the worst thing that happens when you breath in pure O2 is that you pass out, there are no ill effects. As pilots, we're told to make a decision on whether or not someone that is hyperventilating can be calmed down, if not, we just let them pass out.

 

[zedro]

These guys math doesn't count all the crap that is flying up from miles BELOW the surface of the caldera

yeah, like i said, volcano barf.

am i the only scienmatician here?

 

[Jm_]

No tude. I was just trying to make a point about too much of anything, even if biologically beneficial at certain quantities, can reach toxic levels.

Not really. What happens is that your rate of breathing somehow gets out of norm when you hyperventilate. When you are in a 100% oxygen enviroment, your body automatically meters your breathing. Astronauts have breathed in pure O2 for years with no ill effects (but the fire danger is way too extreme so it was stopped). So, when your body is no longer effectively metering your breathing and you hyperventillate, your body returns itself to whatever breathing rate is required based on the O2 concentration in the atmosphere.

The reason you hyperventillate is due to the hydrogen ions in your bloodstream. Your blood must stay in PH balance or you will pass out. When your body makes energy it breaks bonds, and many of these bonds are with hydrogen atoms. When you get too much O2 in your system, you get rid of the hydrogen ions by breathing it out in the form of H20 (water), the problem is that you mess up the PH balance because a certain amount of hydrogen ions are necessary for your body to function. Too little oxygen can be an irreversable effect, but too much oxygen just causes the body to pass out and the breathing to return to normal.

 

[Transcend]

JM is right, you can suck pure oxygen from a bottle and get light headed, or help power some oxygen into the blood to help recover. Football/Track/Soccer players do it all the time.

Zedro, volcano barf is cool. Paintball friday evening, wanna go?

 

[zedro]

Zedro, volcano barf is cool. Paintball friday evening, wanna go?

would love to, but out of my budget for now. I've got a happy trigger finger.

 

[rideagainst]

i heard theyre gettin some similar readings at mount visuvius (sp) (u know the old stories bout the city covered in ash) in italy right now.
coincidence?

 

[Curb Hucker]

A war on volcanoes.

volcanoes #4 on the axis of evil

 

[ssaddict]

Zedro, volcano barf is cool.

It's not really that cool close up.

My family was driving back from Pullman, WA towards Seattle (east to west) across the state that very day in 1980.

I was only three at the time so I don't remember that much. But from what I do and what my dad has told me it was like the world was ending, some really freaky sh*t. In the middle of a hot sunny 90 degree day the clouds started getting really dark and every thing got really quiet, not a single bird could be heard.

Then the Ash started falling... like snow but thicker, and sticking to and clogging everything. My dad was stopping every few miles to empty out the air cleaner hoping to get home, or possibbly drive through it. (since the ash plum was heading east) We only made it a few more miles then had to stop cause the ash was already 6" deep in the middle of the afternoon, and the Highway Patrol had the road blocked near Vantage. We ended up stopping and taking shelter in a HS gym for 2 days untill they could the roads clear enough with the snowplows and roadgraders, and we got out the back way around the road block on some dirt farm roads.

When we got rid of that car a few years later, even after countless washings and cleanings. You could still find ash all over on it. Somewhere I have a picture of myself standing in a foot and a half of the crap next to the stupid car. Ohh the memories :heart: :heart:

Ash still lines many ditches and can be seen blowing from many stockpiles all over Eastern Washington.

 

[Brad23]

another very scary thought is the idea of an "supervolcano" under yellowstone, which would make St. Helens look like a mere fart.

Check it: http://exodus2006.com/supervol.html

or just google supervolcano, aparently it's gettin some activity too....

Ride like it's the end of the earth!!!

 

[Transcend]

That yellowstone caldera would end life as we know it on this planet.

 

[zedro]

That yellowstone caldera would end life as we know it on this planet.

well, i dont feel so bad about not topping up my RRSPs....

 

[kidwoo]

JM is right, you can suck pure oxygen from a bottle and get light headed, or help power some oxygen into the blood to help recover. Football/Track/Soccer players do it all the time.

That's not PURE oxygen.

If you're so certain it is, then go get the green cylinder in an acetylene torch system and breath out of the hose, slowly of course so that you don't confuse the oxidation of your living tissue with the dropping temperature of the expanding air.

You absolutely cannot breath anywhere near a normal volume "breath" containing only oxygen.

JM. Apollonauts got the equivalent of a "trickle" of oxygen so that 1) they didn't have to carry extra weight and 2) the total mass of oxygen never exceeded what would normally be taken in the same amount of time with "normal" breathing. This is not the same thing as what athletes/patients/pilots get. They were not really breathing. I've seen reports on their whole setup. For it to succeed, these guys were nowhere near the atmospheric pressure of the planet.

Christ man, I spent 5 years studying biochem and 3 years working in bioassay labs while trying to get another degree in a not so unrelated field.. I've killed living tissue in all kinds of exiting ways, many of them involving screwing with respiration processes.

Trust me on this. I've seen oxygen burns on people, me being one of them. It's nasty.

Rather than honestly getting a tank of lab grade oxygen (not hospital stuff) and destroying your throat, a much better experiment would be this: take a tank of dry oxygen and spray an organic oil with it. Canola, lard etc. and watch what happens. Please by all means do this. And then I want you to tell me you'd put a significant volume of pure oxygen anywhere near your esophagus.

Regardless. Too much CO2 causes trees to die.

edit: I forgot muscular convulsions usually kill you before straight up tissue death, my bad.

 

[kidwoo]

That yellowstone caldera would end life as we know it on this planet.

Look up the long valley caldera. That's mammoth. Makes yellowstone look itsy bitsy.

 

[Curb Hucker]

im still waiting for that volcano under LA to erupt

 

[Transcend]

Look up the long valley caldera. That's mammoth. Makes yellowstone look itsy bitsy.

Ya, I know. Either one would screw stuff up royally. Just pointin out the "super volcano" was actually big enough to kill us all.

The 3 sisters volcanos in Oregon are forming one huge super volcano too. When it goes up, it's gonna be pretty spectacular.

 

[zedro]

When it goes up, it's gonna be pretty spectacular.

you mean, from looking out from your backyard right?

mass destruction makes me soooo hot...

 

[kidwoo]

Ya, I know. Either one would screw stuff up royally. Just pointin out the "super volcano" was actually big enough to kill us all.

The 3 sisters volcanos in Oregon are forming one huge super volcano too. When it goes up, it's gonna be pretty spectacular.

When I did the continental divide tour, we went through an area called the "great divide basin". It's apparently the old caldera in the area that preceded yellowstone but from the same magma sink. We rode two days, 120 miles each, just across a big crater. While not an explosion, still kind of spooky to think of the area affected.

From the long valley explosion, one of the guys I work with comes in every once in a while and shows me a rock and says "that's from mammoth" "Big deal" I think. The he tells me someone found it south america. eek.

 

[Transcend]

From the long valley explosion, one of the guys I work with comes in every once in a while and shows me a rock and says "that's from mammoth" "Big deal" I think. The he tells me someone found it south america. eek.

DAMN. Long trip.

 

[Jm_]

JM. Apollonauts got the equivalent of a "trickle" of oxygen so that 1) they didn't have to carry extra weight and 2) the total mass of oxygen never exceeded what would normally be taken in the same amount of time with "normal" breathing. This is not the same thing as what athletes/patients/pilots get. They were not really breathing. I've seen reports on their whole setup. For it to succeed, these guys were nowhere near the atmospheric pressure of the planet.
.

There might be some other factors at work here, but for one I don't know if under your hypothesis, the apollo capsule would have been consumed by fire as it was (because they were breathing 100% O2).

Secondly, I am a pilot. I have flown 727 simulators (going to do 737 next weekend) and I am familier with their systems. In emergency conditions, the pilots breath 100% O2. There are various levels, but in an emergency the pilots put on the hoods that have 100% O2. There's "normal" and "emergency'. Normal just has the normal percentage of O2. Emergency is 100% due to altitude and it is usually delivered under pressure to boot (at 42,000, your lungs can't fill with oxygen due to the lack of partial pressure.

If it was really this dangerous, I doubt it would be widely used as it is. I'll refrain from saying your "wrong", but there HAS to be something else going on here.

 

[kidwoo]

Dude, my pop can whoop your pop.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

What I want to know is, what is the president going to do to prevent volcanic eruptions in the upcoming term? While I'm at it, I dont like hurricanes either, im curious to know what Kerry and Bush's plans are to avoid them in the future.

 

[Skookum]

i love volcanoes.

 

[zedro]

i love volcanoes.

sure, until you get burned...

:

 

[Rip]

There's two meanings there. lol.

 

[dhtahoe]

I heard it should only affect those within a five-mile range, but that is obviously pretty hard to call.

Yeah and that's what they said last time. Soooooo many people died because the USGS didn't want wide spread panic. Oh well population control