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Pain cave indoor trainer setups

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
4,041
Exit, CO
Some group rides are ok, but there's usually so much bitching about the pace that they just annoy me after a while.
What's the bitching about? Too fast or too slow, or both? I thought one of the selling points of Zwift is that there's SO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE that one should be able to find a group that aligns with their speed/fitness level?







I have like 1500 miles on the spin bike according to its speedometer...been a good little trip.
Dude. I would totally party in that zone.

oonce oonce oonce
 

amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,221
362
Lancaster, PA
What's the bitching about? Too fast or too slow, or both? I thought one of the selling points of Zwift is that there's SO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE that one should be able to find a group that aligns with their speed/fitness level?
Too fast/hard, above advertised w/kg. The rides are categorized by A/B/C/D which equate to a w/kg average over the length of the ride. People think a ride advertised as a 2.5-3.0 w/kg ride will never go over 3.0. They have to pedal at 3.5 for 30 seconds and bitch about it. But they'll also bitch if a group goes off the front and splits from the main blob because they want to ride a little harder. People just suck.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
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Exit, CO
Another note for anyone getting in to this... make sure your bike is fit and setup correctly. I was starting to have quite a bit of knee pain since starting to ride indoors on the trainer, and last week my frank went numb on a ride. As @6thElement pointed out to me in a PM we have going, I should remember to stand up occasionally. But also... there was that knee pain issue. I started thinking maybe I needed to double check the fit of the gravel bike... stuff like saddle height, saddle angle, etc.

Looking at my setup, I noticed I still had the 42mm gravel tire on the front wheel, and it was sitting in a cradle that was probably made for a 19-23mm road tire, and the trainer holds the rear axle at a specific height probably based on the same size road tire, and heeeyyyy... maybe the front of the bike is a little high? So I measured the distance the axles were off the ground, and yessir the front was about an inch higher. This could translate into 1-2º of slacker seat tube angle, which could be jacking up all the fit of the bike. Especially when it's a bike that you sit on and don't ever really move.

Anycrap, fast forward a bit, @6thElement had an old used up road tire sitting around and I swapped it out. Axles are level now. Balance has been restored. Rode pretty hard tonight for about 60 minutes... no knee pain, no numb junk, and generally it was more comfortable.

Stoked.

There's a group of guys on another forum (TGR) that have a couple group rides a week, gonna try and join for one of those.
So I did this ride tonight, there were 8 other guys. We did three (3) laps of a 5.6 mile course. The groups stays pretty chill for the most part, plenty of chatting and drafting and such. There's a hill, and they tend to go hard over the hill and then regroup. Until the last lap, and then it's straight murder each other up the hill, down the hill, and across the flat all the way to the end of the course.

Verdict: Super fun. Really engaging. Way better than riding "alone" in your basement. I'm a big fan. If I do end up going with Zwift long-term, and enough RM folks would be into it, we could do a weekly meetup ride as well.
 
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amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,221
362
Lancaster, PA
Ending in a mini race, official or not, is a great way to finish a group ride. That's also a small group, and probably better because of it. I really don't get the appeal of massive group rides that are so big you can't even see yourself in the bunch.

Totally agree on bike fit on the trainer - it magnifies anything that's not right. After last winter on the trainer, I started developing hip pain I never had before. No amount of stretching could get rid of it. Went for a bike fit (never had one) and ended up making a ton of changes to my setup and I'm super comfortable now, inside and out.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
4,041
Exit, CO
Ending in a mini race, official or not, is a great way to finish a group ride. That's also a small group, and probably better because of it. I really don't get the appeal of massive group rides that are so big you can't even see yourself in the bunch.
Yeah man, the mini race (and small-ish group) was rad. I've got the power to hang with those dudes, but can't sustain it for as long as required. So... I guess I don't have the power. But doing the sprints will help... and likely translate to "some sort of increased fitness" on the mountain bike. Or at least that's my hope.

Totally agree on bike fit on the trainer - it magnifies anything that's not right.
This, totally this. Even more so than just a road bike, which will also amplify anything not quite right.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
14,481
5,494
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Just got Zwift mostly sorted, did ten minutes of the Watopia intro ride. Fucking humbling. Still have a few things to sort out (need it to recognize the Garmin HR sensor), but it was really fun. Started in my PJ’s to just do a test minute, but when the tron bikes went flying by, I just had to pick up the pace. I was sorta soft pedaling except for those efforts, and it was about 2.6 w/kg, which I am assuming is low. But it was just a test ride.
FT, how do I join the TGR ride?
I didn’t see any request options or search options, but I have only been on it for ten minutes.
 
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6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,084
5,934
Just got Zwift mostly sorted, did ten minutes of the Watopia intro ride. Fucking humbling. Still have a few things to sort out (need it to recognize the Garmin HR sensor), but it was really fun. Started in my PJ’s to just do a test minute, but when the train bikes went flying by, I just had to pick up the pace. I was sorta soft pedaling except for those efforts, and it was about 2.6 w/kg, which I am assuming is low. But it was just a test ride.
FT, how do I join the TGR ride?
I didn’t see any request options or search options, but I have only been on it for ten minutes.
Is your Garmin sensor a newer Dual version which has Bluetooth?
2.6W/kg means I'm working pretty hard.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
4,041
Exit, CO
Just got Zwift mostly sorted, did ten minutes of the Watopia intro ride. Fucking humbling. Still have a few things to sort out (need it to recognize the Garmin HR sensor), but it was really fun. Started in my PJ’s to just do a test minute, but when the tron bikes went flying by, I just had to pick up the pace. I was sorta soft pedaling except for those efforts, and it was about 2.6 w/kg, which I am assuming is low. But it was just a test ride.
FT, how do I join the TGR ride?
I didn’t see any request options or search options, but I have only been on it for ten minutes.
Easy-ish slow cruise for me is like 1.7-2.0w/kg, that’s just shy of 200w. Getting up towards 2.6w/kg is working pretty hard for me. That’s the level I sustained on average for 20 min in the FTP test I did, and at my size that translates into not super fast compared to skinny guys. I’d like to get to a point where I could hold ~300w average (3.3w/kg) for like 5 minutes but I’m not there yet. Also I have no idea what being able to do that on a trainer would translate to in real life, in a ride. So maybe I need to figure out what I want the “real world” effects to be, and go from there? Though mostly I’m just doing the indoor thing to “be less fat” and not have as large of a riding fitness deficit to overcome in the spring.

Anycrap...

Find Dee Hubs on Zwift and follow him, then either post in the Zwift thread or shoot him a PM and let him know and he’ll put you on the list to invite you to the meetup rides.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
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Exit, CO
I’d shoot him a PM on TGR and just let him know you followed him because your a maggot that’s interested in joining the group ride. He invites you, and that’ll show up either on the web interface or in your companion app.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
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Exit, CO
So I did an indoor sesh on the KICKR Snap tonight, and before I did I checked the tire pressure on the rear tire. It was down around 70-80 psi instead of the 100+ it probably ought to have. So, I pumped it up, and got it to ~100-105 or so, which is currently the most psi I can get out of my floor pump. And I swear, it felt "easier" to keep the watts up than it has the last couple of rides. I wanted to know if I am crazy or what, so I asked Teh Googles. And I found this article:


TL;DR -- if your tire pressure drops then your watts will drop. Obviously this matters if you're riding/racing virtually against other people, but also if you're actually trying to train for something having consistent metrics would probably be clutch. So, there you have it. Check your tire pressure. You can also choose to not care about it, whatever. I'm not your mom, you can do what you want.

Also, if you're using some other method of capturing power, or you're using a speed/cadence sensor on a dumb trainer, it don't matter.




Also, in an attempt to keep this thread about smart trainers, dumb trainers, spin bikes, and other indoor riding setups I'm gonna start a thread about Zwift specifically. It might die, and that's okay.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,084
5,934
Hey @rideit what's your at home altitude? Just trying to work out my excuses on power output versus others on here and you're probably higher than those below me in western Kansas.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,384
4,041
Exit, CO
Hey @rideit what's your at home altitude? Just trying to work out my excuses on power output versus others on here and you're probably higher than those below me in western Kansas.
Hey now... I'm not making excuses. I'm just making sure there's some air in my tire is all. Sheesh. And really, I just wanna be at the top of the dang mountain with a couple minutes less than a half hour of your wife... you know, so we're not all of us making her wait at the top for our slow asses.

;)
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
18,709
7,842
directly above the center of the earth
I just have my road bike set up on a fluid resistance trainer pointed out the window to the street next to the Hoist 210 weight machine and the Precor EFX 5.23 elliptical with a adjustable in motion incline.

I just follow the routine that my old Triathlon Coach set up. We called his 90 minute spin class, Muddy's house of pain
Lots of one legged spins, Ladders, grinds sprints and recovery. You can't walk very well when
IMG_20210125_193143379~2.jpg
done. Then go kill myself on the weights and do some light intervals on the elliptical
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,084
5,934
Hey now... I'm not making excuses. I'm just making sure there's some air in my tire is all. Sheesh. And really, I just wanna be at the top of the dang mountain with a couple minutes less than a half hour of your wife... you know, so we're not all of us making her wait at the top for our slow asses.

;)
I'm looking for excuses for me though!!

Yeah, still don't know what happened in the thought process on that one...
 

amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,221
362
Lancaster, PA
Did a little cleaning/reorganizing over the last couple of weekends. Also decided to turn the heat on for the last few weeks of winter. It's been really nice not having to wear shoe covers on the fucking trainer. Anyway, this is my setup:

IMG-6139.jpg
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,084
5,934
I find the perfect temp for indoor trainer/rollers/Zwift is ~58 degrees....
That's the exact temp I have the thermostat set to in our trainer room. By the time we've finished a ride it can be high 60's in there.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
18,038
2,201
01776
hi frens
now that the covfefid conspiracy is over, I'm looking to pick up a disused trainer from an ex-lockdown paincave. Are there any trainers we love or hate? DC rainmaker seems to love virtually all trainers. I haven't seen one that he hates yet, honestly.

I'm in a bit of a pickle as I have XDR and SRAM's matching cassette, so a direct drive trainer will be the most expensive AND I'll have to spend $75 on a freehub AND $100 on SRAM's bottom end cassette. Not the end of the world if that truly is the best case. The alternative is wheel on with a thru-axle adapter and probably replacing rear tires once a year.

I'd like to ditch the spin bike, as the wide Q factor and cleat wedges I had ended up being the source of my knee pain. Ditching them seems to have improved things dramatically, but now my feet hurt again on the road bike. I think I want to get a good trainer and pay for a professional fit and be done with it.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,084
5,934
hi frens
now that the covfefid conspiracy is over, I'm looking to pick up a disused trainer from an ex-lockdown paincave. Are there any trainers we love or hate? DC rainmaker seems to love virtually all trainers. I haven't seen one that he hates yet, honestly.

I'm in a bit of a pickle as I have XDR and SRAM's matching cassette, so a direct drive trainer will be the most expensive AND I'll have to spend $75 on a freehub AND $100 on SRAM's bottom end cassette. Not the end of the world if that truly is the best case. The alternative is wheel on with a thru-axle adapter and probably replacing rear tires once a year.

I'd like to ditch the spin bike, as the wide Q factor and cleat wedges I had ended up being the source of my knee pain. Ditching them seems to have improved things dramatically, but now my feet hurt again on the road bike. I think I want to get a good trainer and pay for a professional fit and be done with it.
What's the cassette you've got on the bike?

Perhaps there's a random brand with an HG compatible cassette with the same cog range that you could use to start with?

No complaints with the Kickr Core's wife and I both picked up from REI 20% off sales during lockdown last year.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
18,038
2,201
01776
What's the cassette you've got on the bike?

Perhaps there's a random brand with an HG compatible cassette with the same cog range that you could use to start with?

No complaints with the Kickr Core's wife and I both picked up from REI 20% off sales during lockdown last year.
The road bike is a 10-33 XDR cassette. I can get an XDR freehub for around $60, and the SRAM Rival cassette in 10-30 for $125. That's pretty expensive on top of the $575 I've already spent on it.

I am currently debating whether to keep the bar bike on the trainer and buy a cassette for it or do it right with the road bike. Would be nice to have a completely different setup that I don't have to fuck with when I want to ride on the road, but it's also nice to ride the bike you're going to be riding/racing. I'm also debating buying a trash bike and keeping it fixed to the trainer with spare parts to build it up.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
18,038
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01776
okay, aside from all my setup nonsense above- what are the favorite apps for training? I'm not sure I have the free time to commit to a full trainerroad setup. It sounds like zwift offers both virtual races as well as workouts...is that true?

I just did a workout through Fulgaz climbing mount olive and it kicked my ass. Not going to lie, that was pretty entertaining and really hard work. Was supposed to be a 5mi ride but it was at a 7.6% average grade, so I died.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,084
5,934
I think Fulgaz is like Rouvy, videos synched to the gpx of the terrain?

Wife and I still like Rouvy, pretty cheap versus Strava and we've liked the recent rides we've done of the big climbs in Le Tour - Tourmalet, Alpe d'Huez etc.

We don't use it for any structured training, just purely riding when we can't ride outdoors.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
44,810
10,458
Sleazattle
I like Zwift as it allows me to mess with strangers. It is fun to tag onto a group, start stepping up the pace and see what happens. Sometimes you blow up a group, sometimes someone drops the hammer back at you and puts you into your place.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
18,038
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Back again.

Tried fulgaz, really like the realistic feel of the climbs and the video to pace sync is pretty cool, when it works right. Grinding up a 12% grade that feels like a 12% grade is pretty neat. Unfortunately, the structured workouts were really lacking, and there didn't seem to be a ton of variety...a lot of climbs which are awesome, but not much else.

Tried out the zwift free trial, and got hooked. It's pretty decent as most of you have figured out, plus they have structured workouts. I need something to look at aside from charts and graphs, so trainerroad was out for the time being. I haven't done group rides or anything competitive, mostly just freeballing around watopia or structured workouts. I'm planning a second FTP test in the next couple of days and will try the FTP booster to see if I can "get it up". Will probably do more dicking around in the winter, same with group rides. I do think the general "ride around and see what's up" is a bit less appealing...I feel like it doesn't take a lot of energy/there isn't much resistance unless there's a 2-3% grade in front of you....and for most of the terrain it's pretty flat.
 

amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,221
362
Lancaster, PA
Just do the KOM route in Watopia if you're not doing structured workouts. I can kick my ass pretty good if I hit that hard. There's also Ven Top in France for sustained climbing, and the Alp, once you level up and unlock that area of the map.

And related to one of your posts above about a trainer bike, gear range, etc., once you start doing structured workouts, your cassette means fuck all. Might as well be on a SS. Even on group rides I rarely use more than two or three gears, so having a slightly different cassette on the trainer is NBD. I definitely prefer to be on my daily driver even on the trainer though. I have the fit dialed, and that's really important for spending real time on the trainer.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
18,038
2,201
01776
Just do the KOM route in Watopia if you're not doing structured workouts. I can kick my ass pretty good if I hit that hard. There's also Ven Top in France for sustained climbing, and the Alp, once you level up and unlock that area of the map.

And related to one of your posts above about a trainer bike, gear range, etc., once you start doing structured workouts, your cassette means fuck all. Might as well be on a SS. Even on group rides I rarely use more than two or three gears, so having a slightly different cassette on the trainer is NBD. I definitely prefer to be on my daily driver even on the trainer though. I have the fit dialed, and that's really important for spending real time on the trainer.
I'll keep that route in mind. Locations seem kind of limited, but I don't really care at this time. Everything is pretty new to me.

As for the cassette, you are 100% correct. Honestly my shifting was all goofed up until the start of this week. All I needed was one cog that wasn't skipping, so that's what I had. Now it's tuned up better, but still I'm on an 11-42 and 34-50 up front, so pretty weird road gears. I have my "difficulty" set to 90 or 100% to make it a bit more realistic. I'm working on fit, what I really need to do is pay for a professional fit on the road bike then copy it to the trainer, but if I compare measurements between the two as they are now (my road fit is pretty comfy) then they are super close. It's mostly just hand position to reduce numbness or slipping. Center grip position on the flat bars is exactly 42cm, like my road bars...leg extension is the same, saddle to bars is similar. The crank length is 2.5mm different, but I'm not sure that means too much.