[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by JOhnG
i don't get all this stuff about a master plan. you mean that the god you worship had a young girl get assulted by a stranger so that a software industrie tycoon could be born? i don't buy it. if there was a god and he was really in control how do things like the holocaust start, hmmm.... mabye he had millions of jews get killed so they could have thier own state?

I do not mean to be mean, but WHY do people continually blame GOD for things like this? It is no secret that people sin...it's no secret that people get worse and worse as time goes by, and do worse things. Isn't it possible that these bad things that happen are simply a result of our own actions coming back on us? How is it that people can kill and rape and steal, and ONE MAN's crazed vision for the world, can be blamed on God? People continually think that IF there was a God (and there is) then He should run after each of us, clean up after us, keep us from harm, not let anything bad happen in life, etc. I do understand why you say what you said above, but it just gets to me after a while how people place no responsibility for things like that on the shoulders of the billions of people who, throughout history, CHOSE to walk away from and ignore God, and do things exactly opposite to his will.

Originally posted by JOhnG
as for the death penalty, it should be abolished, there is no way that the system could be right every time and taking an innocent persons life would lower you to the same level as criminals

So in other words, we should stuff every criminal who has ever killed anyone into a prison and let them sit there for life (or, worse yet, let them out early)? That would not help one bit.

Originally posted by JOhnG
and on abortion, if you don't like the idea of killing a fetus don't do it but please don't push your morals onto a 12 year old who got raped and impregnated. oh and if you ever took sex ed (my favorite class ever ) you would know that there is not a single contraceptive out there that is full proff.

Abstinence is 100% foolproof. I have not pushed my morals upon anyone, and I don't think anyone here has. We have simply responded to people, and there is nothing wrong with incorporating what we believe into those responses. I would sincerely hope that every single person here would do this. I don't think you're specifically responding to me, but to the board in general, so please don't take anything I say too personally, and if I offend I apologize.

Originally posted by JOhnG
and lastly could somebody tell me what happened w/ this girl who is up for perole.

Parole was denied.

 

[mikec918]

Originally posted by Damn True


Yes I have. Eleven years.

Gee, no kidding. Thanks for straightening me out on the chain of command and lawfull orders.

Since you knew why then did you tell Leather Face thats only Calley should be held responsible for what happened. Just wonder?

 

[Damn True]

Calley was in command. He is ultimately responsible for the actions of his men. That's the way it works.

If the officer of the deck makes a mistake and gives a conning command to a helmsman that runs a ship aground the Captain of the ship is held liable even if he isn't on the bridge when the command is given. He is responsible for the conduct of his crew.

Calley's 1st Sgt. was also sentanced to life in prison. They were both parolled in 1974 after many parole hearings. Which is wrong. He should have remained in prison, just as Van Houten should.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Damn True

If the officer of the deck makes a mistake and gives a conning command to a helmsman that runs a ship aground the Captain of the ship is held liable even if he isn't on the bridge when the command is given. He is responsible for the conduct of his crew.

Calley's 1st Sgt. was also sentanced to life in prison. They were both parolled in 1974 after many parole hearings. Which is wrong. He should have remained in prison, just as Van Houten should.

Parolled? Hmmmm, interesting...

 

[Damn True]

Van Houten spoke quietly and directly as she once again recounted the horrifying facts of the murders that Manson directed in the summer of 1969, when she was 19 years old.

Van Houten recalled that Watson was in the living room killing Leno La Bianca and she was in the bedroom with Rosemary La Bianca.

Asked if she had stabbed the woman, Van Houten said, "Yes, I did, in the lower torso approximately 14 to 16 times."

She apologized for her acts.

Well isn't that nice?

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


Parolled? Hmmmm, interesting...

Yes. I thought that would make you happy.

He should not have been parolled.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by dg806
LF, let me ask this.....All the murderes, rapists, and such....do you think we should just let them go hoping they will do better? Well you know that is just not going to happen! I am a police officer so I see this everyday! There has to be some type of punishment for crime in society as a deterrant. If not what is going to stop people from killing and commiting crimes?? And what if one of these brutal crimes happened to one of your loved ones? Would you still have the same opinion? And speaking of Susan Smith......She drove her kids in a lake and let them drown. Can you just imagine their faces, screams and horror?? I have kids and I can't imagine any crime more heinous than that!! She deserved to be killed! God put parents in charge of caring for their children, not killing them! I really respect your opinions, but I have to disagree totally with this type of liberal, bleeding heart way of thinking!

Well, there it is...calling me a liberal bleeding heart. God I love it. No, I'm not saying that we should let all of the murderers and rapists walk out of prison walls. I was merely bringing up the issue that I felt Leslie Van Houten should be parolled because if let out, she's not going to go on a murder spree. But the fact that these were such highly publicized crimes (particularly because the victims were famous) and the murders were so brutal, there is no way in hell they would let her out. Now Lt. Calley who helped kill 300 innocent civilians at My Lai...that's ok to let him go for some reason.

I am not from the draconian school, and I find that I get in numerous arguments with police officers at work because they feel "if a crime has been committed, the juvenile must be punished." I don't think prison is a deterrant, just like I don't think the death penalty is a deterrant. Criminals act thinking they will never get caught--they aren't weighing the thought of prison at the commission of a crime.

And these highly publicized crimes---they are just that, and this contributes negatively to our perseption of crime. Yes, what Susan Smith did was horrible, as what Andrea Yates did, but fathers kill their children at the same rate as mothers...but I couldn't tell you the name of a "famous case" of child killing that involved a father...can you? Think about the media as social control...showing "bad mothers" as an example for the rest of American women not to follow.

 

[Damn True]

"Criminals act thinking they will never get caught--they aren't weighing the thought of prison at the commission of a crime. "

Which is why, once they are caught, they should stay.

 

[Damn True]

A little history on Calley for those who don't know the story.

http://www.courttv.com/greatesttrials/mylai/background.html

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Damn True
"Criminals act thinking they will never get caught--they aren't weighing the thought of prison at the commission of a crime. "

Which is why, once they are caught, they should stay.

Which is why prison should not be looked at as a "deterrant" as stated before. If they are caught and are in prison, you think they should never be let out? I mean, that is what parole is for, right? I bet Lt. Calley is thanking his lucky stars for parole...



BTW DT--clean out your PM box

 

[Damn True]

I don't think Calley should have been parolled.

I don't think we ought to keep a guy who steals a car in jail forever. Though I think a long wait in a small room is an effective deterrant to a future crime. I do however think that murderers, rapists, and child molesters should never be released.

cleaned

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by Damn True


But what about the people that just kill the sons or daughters of Joe Nobody folks like: Jesse Timmendequas? Larry Singleton? (look this guy up, parole is neat) Herbert James Coddington? Dorothea Puente? Cary Stayner? Or Robert Spedding? Look that guy up too. I knew him. He is of no use to society.

Look them up?
Where?

 

[Damn True]

google

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Damn True


I don't think we ought to keep a guy who steals a car in jail forever. Though I think a long wait in a small room is an effective deterrant to a future crime. I do however think that murderers, rapists, and child molesters should never be released.

It could be a deterrant if the person is let out and doesn't return to the same environment that he/she came from, because that could cause them to steal or whatever again.

And as for child molesters...they have to be separated from the rest of the prison population or the other prisoners will kill them. I say...don't separate them. Child molesters/perps are the one poplulation of people that I would not mind eliminated from the planet...:angry:

 

[Damn True]

And as for child molesters...they have to be separated from the rest of the prison population or the other prisoners will kill them. I say...don't separate them. Child molesters/perps are the one poplulation of people that I would not mind eliminated from the planet...

I agree 100%

 

[fourgivn1]

I agree as well. As bad as the criminals are in the prison population today, there aren't loads of people in there that look kindly upon child molesters. Matter of fact, a guy in a prison near where I live was just severely hurt because he was one.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Damn True


I agree 100%

WHAT? You mean we have agreed on something?

 

[fourgivn1]

*suffers coronary*

Holy smokes! I'm going to mark this day on my calendar.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by fourgivn1
*suffers coronary*

Holy smokes! I'm going to mark this day on my calendar.

 

[dg806]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


I was merely bringing up the issue that I felt Leslie Van Houten should be parolled because if let out, she's not going to go on a murder spree.
I don't think prison is a deterrant, just like I don't think the death penalty is a deterrant. Criminals act thinking they will never get caught--they aren't weighing the thought of prison at the commission of a crime.

#1...How do you know she won't kill again??? Will you take responsibility for it if she does?
#2 And you mean to tell me that if would be criminals would see someone hang or be electrocuted or gassed, they wouldn't think twice about commiting a crime?? I know I would! That is definately a deterrant! Problem is we slap too many on the wrist and return them to society to wreak more havic and crime and they know this!

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by dg806


#2 And you mean to tell me that if would be criminals would see someone hang or be electrocuted or gassed, they wouldn't think twice about commiting a crime?? I know I would!

Um, that would be the difference between you and most criminals...

 

[fourgivn1]

I don't know...maybe a lot of criminals WOULD stop and say

"Gee...look how many people I've hurt.....what have I done? I believe I'll now change my ways and somehow contribute to society in a positive way."