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BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Ordering my new frame got me thinking (always dangerous).

Normally I think to myself, I like things made in America. I trust the quality. I like that it helps the economy, supports the American worker, all that good stuff.

Well, in the search for my new bike, I couldnt find exactly what I wanted in an American company, but a Canadian company had just the thing I was after. I didnt hesitate for a second, and wouldnt question any canadian manufacturer because I know that there's tons of good quality canadian bikes out there. One of my best friends is a welder from canada who was educated there, and he said that canadian welding standards are international, unlike american, so canadians typically are better educated, etc...

Anyway, what Im getting at is that there are tons of great bikes out there too made in Taiwan, China, whatever with no greater history of breaking than american or canadian brands, and given that buying canadian does nothing really for the american economy that buying from a tawianese manufacturer, why is it that Im more satisfied buying from places like canada or the uk?

Is there some underlying racism Im not aware of? Is it that I share a culture with my North American or European counterparts, and the way we percieve things from the east as cheap is because we sort of view their culture as something exploited for OUR use, so I veiw it only as a product for use, and NOT as a product of someone's hard work?

Anyone know what Im talking about? I like Asians just fine. Have and have had many asian friends and they are some of the smartest and nices people I know. Loyal to a fault at times.

?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
SkaredShtles said:
What if an Asian made your frame in Canada? How do you know it would be a white person making it there? :confused:
That's what I mean. I would like it just the same as if made by a white person, as long as it was made here. Title was misleading.
 

robdamanii

OMG! <3 Tom Brady!
May 2, 2005
10,677
0
Out of my mind, back in a moment.
I think a lot of it stems from how we perceive things from China/Taiwan as being "cheap" because the labor and materials costs over there are much cheaper than here. We tend to associate clothes, electronics and things of that nature with the 3rd world (or maybe lower class, I don't know if China/Taiwan is 3rd world) country they are from, and judge that if the country is crappy, obviously their products must be as well.

American pride is another thing I think becomes a factor. The sort of "I'm an American and damned proud of American craftsmanship so I don't buy foreign crap" attitude we have over here only contributes to the stereotype of "overseas made=sh!t".

I think both of those are starting to change, however.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
robdamanii said:
I think a lot of it stems from how we perceive things from China/Taiwan as being "cheap" because the labor and materials costs over there are much cheaper than here. We tend to associate clothes, electronics and things of that nature with the 3rd world (or maybe lower class, I don't know if China/Taiwan is 3rd world) country they are from, and judge that if the country is crappy, obviously their products must be as well.

American pride is another thing I think becomes a factor. The sort of "I'm an American and damned proud of American craftsmanship so I don't buy foreign crap" attitude we have over here only contributes to the stereotype of "overseas made=sh!t".

I think both of those are starting to change, however.
I agree w/ the first part, but Im not so sure it's really beginning to change. Perhaps something made in Japan I would feel pretty good about, but not Thailand, Laos, China... maybe that says something. Taiwan bugs me too. Maybe I confuse that with Thailand (horrible place BTW)
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
Because a lot of items that we see on a daily basis are made for ease of manufacturing and cost; not durability.

Since these items are often made in Taiwan or China, we associate the lower quality with it being made there.

In reality, the process and specification/requirements are probably determined by some American corporate goon that is more concerned about making money than creating a solid part.

It&#8217;s not where it&#8217;s made that makes it lower quality, it&#8217;s what the company specs out.
 

jvp108

king of the road
Mar 21, 2006
153
0
filthadelphia
I agree. Back in the day, made in japan used to mean crap. Companies such as Nike, Coca Cola, Etc. who manufacture overseas do so in high-tech factories where labor is cheap. Doesn't mean the product is. Why do you think toyotas, BMWs, and hondas are made in low labor cost areas of the US such as South Carolina, Ohio, and TN?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
narlus said:
what countries comprise a '2nd world' country? or did we skip a classification?
Ive never heard of a 2nd world country. Maybe Belarus or something.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
jvp108 said:
I agree. Back in the day, made in japan used to mean crap. Companies such as Nike, Coca Cola, Etc. who manufacture overseas do so in high-tech factories where labor is cheap. Doesn't mean the product is. Why do you think toyotas, BMWs, and hondas are made in low labor cost areas of the US such as South Carolina, Ohio, and TN?
Well, in TN they do it because its a non-union state and they get away with whatever they want, however, they still pay well compared to other industries. But I suppose you're correct in that the bottom line is that its cheaper.
 

rooftest

Monkey
Jul 10, 2005
611
0
OC, CA
narlus said:
what countries comprise a '2nd world' country? or did we skip a classification?
(I'm trying to remember this from 20 years ago.)
Back in the day, "1st world" meant the U.S. and countries like England, Germany, etc. "2nd world" was everything in between that wasn't "3rd world" (Italy, Belgium, etc.)

Not sure if this has been changed or made more "P.C."
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
narlus said:
so the tennessee state legislation prohibits unions?
No but, there are certain classifications being that it is a "Right to work State" vs. whatever the heck the other thing is. Or maybe I have it backward.

There ARE unions, but there doesnt HAVE TO BE unions, or something to that effect.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
narlus said:
what countries comprise a '2nd world' country? or did we skip a classification?
These terms originated from cold war era definitions, which no longer fit.
1st world were the developed, capitalist nations
2nd world were the developed communist bloc nations
3rd world were poor people
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Zark said:
These terms originated from cold war era definitions, which no longer fit.
1st world were the developed, capitalist nations
2nd world were the developed communist bloc nations
3rd world were poor people
Hell yeah! Score one for Shirly. Belarus. I actually knew something.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
BurlyShirley said:
Ordering my new frame got me thinking (always dangerous).

Normally I think to myself, I like things made in America. I trust the quality. I like that it helps the economy, supports the American worker, all that good stuff.

Well, in the search for my new bike, I couldnt find exactly what I wanted in an American company, but a Canadian company had just the thing I was after. I didnt hesitate for a second, and wouldnt question any canadian manufacturer because I know that there's tons of good quality canadian bikes out there. One of my best friends is a welder from canada who was educated there, and he said that canadian welding standards are international, unlike american, so canadians typically are better educated, etc...

Anyway, what Im getting at is that there are tons of great bikes out there too made in Taiwan, China, whatever with no greater history of breaking than american or canadian brands, and given that buying canadian does nothing really for the american economy that buying from a tawianese manufacturer, why is it that Im more satisfied buying from places like canada or the uk?

Is there some underlying racism Im not aware of? Is it that I share a culture with my North American or European counterparts, and the way we percieve things from the east as cheap is because we sort of view their culture as something exploited for OUR use, so I veiw it only as a product for use, and NOT as a product of someone's hard work?

Anyone know what Im talking about? I like Asians just fine. Have and have had many asian friends and they are some of the smartest and nices people I know. Loyal to a fault at times.

?
You got to fcking kidding.

So if an Asian, African, or Latino American (or Canadian) touched your bike, it would be defective?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,827
27,043
media blackout
sanjuro said:
You got to fcking kidding.

So if an Asian, African, or Latino American (or Canadian) touched your bike, it would be defective?
did you bother reading his next post?


BurlyShirley said:
That's what I mean. I would like it just the same as if made by a white person, as long as it was made here. Title was misleading.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,016
22,047
Sleazattle
The idea is you buy something from your neibhbor and if he buys something from you your money stays in the neihborhood. If your neighborhood is the worlds best neighborhood people from other neighborhoods will buy from yours. Your neighborhood gets wealthier. Once you start buying from other neighborhoods those neighborhoods can become more competetive and everyone else will buy from them. That doesn't mean jack chit anymore as high standards and cost of living is driving manufacturing to areas with lower costs. In the long run it will all balance out but by then here will be no more resources left and we will all be dressed like dirty mall punks fighting over oil and pig chit.
 

dirtydirtysouf

Deletated
May 23, 2006
1,019
0
the ghetto of winston-salem, nc
BurlyShirley said:
Ordering my new frame got me thinking (always dangerous).

Normally I think to myself, I like things made in America. I trust the quality. I like that it helps the economy, supports the American worker, all that good stuff.

Well, in the search for my new bike, I couldnt find exactly what I wanted in an American company, but a Canadian company had just the thing I was after. I didnt hesitate for a second, and wouldnt question any canadian manufacturer because I know that there's tons of good quality canadian bikes out there. One of my best friends is a welder from canada who was educated there, and he said that canadian welding standards are international, unlike american, so canadians typically are better educated, etc...

Anyway, what Im getting at is that there are tons of great bikes out there too made in Taiwan, China, whatever with no greater history of breaking than american or canadian brands, and given that buying canadian does nothing really for the american economy that buying from a tawianese manufacturer, why is it that Im more satisfied buying from places like canada or the uk?

Is there some underlying racism Im not aware of? Is it that I share a culture with my North American or European counterparts, and the way we percieve things from the east as cheap is because we sort of view their culture as something exploited for OUR use, so I veiw it only as a product for use, and NOT as a product of someone's hard work?

Anyone know what Im talking about? I like Asians just fine. Have and have had many asian friends and they are some of the smartest and nices people I know. Loyal to a fault at times.

?
are you a KKK member or just slow?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
splat said:
The question I have you BS is this. is it because you are looking more for a Botique type frame ( hand made low quantity attention to detail) vs a Mass produced frame ( Push as many out as fast as you can )?
I would say that has something to do w/ it as well. There arent too many boutique frames made overseas like that I guess. So the quality would be better regardless.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Also, what Im getting at is that this is how WE as a collective tend to feel about things. Not that this is just my show. Its a known phenomenon.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
My advice is to delete this thread. I know he meant to say American not white people but BS is talking about "Asians are my friends" crap.

You know how many racist statements I have heard that start like this:

"You know, I have a lot of friends who are _________, but...."
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
sanjuro said:
My advice is to delete this thread. I know he meant to say American not white people but BS is talking about "Asians are my friends" crap.

You know how many racist statements I have heard that start like this:

"You know, I have a lot of friends who are _________, but...."
Dont be a jerk. If this offends you, you've got other things going on. Change the title if you like but the thread and question are valid. Please read before being prejudice.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,150
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
I know that every frame that I have ridden from Taiwan (3 Giants, 2 Brodies) has broken on me...however, I have not ridden a frame from those manufacturers in several years, nor have I ridden any of the "higher end" frames (can't for the life of me remember which other manufacturers use the east for production....damn...I know they're there too....).

So I switched to a Cove G-spot and a couple of Rotecs with absolutely no frame problems (components are a completely different issue in my mind....).

What does that say to me....same thing that Shirley is expressing....I have no ill will towards the east manufacturing combine cause they put out bikes that are quality, they just don't stand up to me....so I personally feel more comfortable with the boutique stuff....*shrug*
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
dirtydirtysouf said:
you just need to make sure you say a forign land, not non-white people:rofl:
That wouldnt make sense. Canada and England are both "foreign" lands, whose majority population is white. The title was sort of half-joking for attention's sake, but to generalize the majority of the population in these countries are in fact white. What Im asking is if race plays a role, or if its a cultural misunderstanding.
 

dirtydirtysouf

Deletated
May 23, 2006
1,019
0
the ghetto of winston-salem, nc
BurlyShirley said:
Im asking is if race plays a role, or if its a cultural misunderstanding.
now thats how you should have said it.........its not race but education that has to deal mostly with workmanship.........
we get tons of equipment (pumps, tanks, heat exchangers) from asia, india and most of it is crap (bad welds, un-finished, ect.) .....countries that we get the best finished equipment seems to have a better education system in place (england, france, canaDUH, ect.)
 

kinghami3

Future Turbo Monkey
Jun 1, 2004
2,239
0
Ballard 4 life.
SkaredShtles said:
Back in *what* day? This must be from a long time ago, because in the electronics arena Japan has been viewed as the leader for decades. :think:
Post WWII era to about the 1970s. Took some time to rebuild, but if there's one thing Japan is good at, it's industrialization.