You're misunderstanding everything, and you may as well just give up. I said that crafstmanship tends to be equal, but that we still hold things made in the western hemisphere in higher regard. The question is WHY?dirtydirtysouf said:
Parts made by White people:
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
Off the top of my head I would guess it is an ingrained cultural bias resulting from generations of propaganda and other brainwashing about American superiority, starting sometime around the industrial revolution when there was a somewhat valid basis (beyond protectionism) for the notion that we were better than everyone else.
Or maybe you're just a closeted wannabe white hood wearer.
Or maybe you're just a closeted wannabe white hood wearer.
Black People Love Us!sanjuro said:
Apparently we're not grown up enough here to have an adult conversation. I'll delete the thread. 
If there is another way to demonstrate that you like people of a particular race just as much as any other particular race, then Id be interested to know it.BuddhaRoadkill said:
Ahhh...... I figured when he said "back in the day" he was talking about 1993.kinghami3 said:
Because most people are bumbling fools who will deny reality even in the face of glaring factual information?BurlyShirley said:
i can only imagine the firestorm created if i'd posted this.
everyone goes apecrazy over where cars and such are made.
but when it gets right down to it.
we all want the most for our $$$. and if a canadian co. built a better d.h. bike at the time i was in the market for one. my hard earned dollars would be flowing north of the border real fast.
just like most of the $$$ i spent on x-c bikes back in the day went to asian co's.
and i'm as an american redneck as anyone round these parts.
thank goodness for yeti cycles !!
everyone goes apecrazy over where cars and such are made.
but when it gets right down to it.
we all want the most for our $$$. and if a canadian co. built a better d.h. bike at the time i was in the market for one. my hard earned dollars would be flowing north of the border real fast.
just like most of the $$$ i spent on x-c bikes back in the day went to asian co's.
and i'm as an american redneck as anyone round these parts.
thank goodness for yeti cycles !!
Other than a few stupid comments I don't see what's wrong with this thread. I think more people should examine why they make the decisions they make. The unexamined life is not worth living. Or something like that.
In fact, mark this day: I approve of a BS thread.
In fact, mark this day: I approve of a BS thread.
I disagree. I think that if you had two bikes with the exact same spec and quality, one made in Taiwan, one in the UK, most people would "want" the UK bike more. No?dhbuilder said:
Why Yeti? Where do you think they make their frames?dhbuilder said:
I don't care about how rich my neighborhood is. I want the best stuff for my $$$. If I take my business elsewhere, my neighborhood will get its act together.
Nothing wrong with supporting foreign business because it spurs refinements in domestic business.
Nothing wrong with supporting foreign business because it spurs refinements in domestic business.
Ugghh, this thread got horribly serious.BurlyShirley said:If there is another way to demonstrate that you like people of a particular race just as much as any other particular race, then Id be interested to know it.
There is no way BS. You can't win. We're supposed to simultaniously celebrate cultural diversity and pretend it doesn't exist. But on topic, OGRipper probably nailed it on the head. But I'd say it also has to do with degrees of familiarity. We'll always be bias toward that which we are familiar. Canada may be another country, but not really. For the most part they are seen as the 51st state. It's easy to indentity with [and therefore trust] someone who lives a lifestyle probably very similar to our own. It's not as easy to relate to the "Mysteries of the Orient".
Close but I wouldn't call the Saudis poor people.Zark said:
Oh, I prefer American made steel bikes, but it sure is hard to find a steel FS.
well as far as i know the company is still based here in the U.S.A.SkaredShtles said:Why Yeti? Where do you think they make their frames?
they may sub-out work. but the bulk of the profit stays here.
(and that's what's currently delivering my old butt to the bottom of the mt. over and over again.)
Marketing is everything. Companies are quick to put "Made in the USA" because it does sell. Some companies go so far as to say "Built in the USA" when all they did was put some fo the parts together.
I myself am a cheap bastard. I go for bang:buck ratio just about every time. If you look at the quality of my IH, you will see that it is built very well and I couldn't come close to that price for a "USA" bike.
I would say that there is a sense of "american pride" that some people can't look past that causes this.
On a side note: A friend of mine was fired from a Dodge dealership (parts department) when he told a customer the truck part he had ordered had not come in from overseas. Customer reaction: "Overseas? Are you telling me that my truck isn't 100% American?"
I myself am a cheap bastard. I go for bang:buck ratio just about every time. If you look at the quality of my IH, you will see that it is built very well and I couldn't come close to that price for a "USA" bike.
I would say that there is a sense of "american pride" that some people can't look past that causes this.
On a side note: A friend of mine was fired from a Dodge dealership (parts department) when he told a customer the truck part he had ordered had not come in from overseas. Customer reaction: "Overseas? Are you telling me that my truck isn't 100% American?"
Being from the UK I have the following general opinion of bike manufacturing quality:
1) Euro made Boutique Bikes
2) Canadian made Boutique Bikes
3) US made Boutique Bikes
4) Euro/US/Canadian designed, Asian manufactured bikes
5) Euro/US/Canadian designed, locally mass produced bikes
I personally don't hold American mass manufacture to be any good. I mean look at your automotive industry. Frankly it produces crap.
1) Euro made Boutique Bikes
2) Canadian made Boutique Bikes
3) US made Boutique Bikes
4) Euro/US/Canadian designed, Asian manufactured bikes
5) Euro/US/Canadian designed, locally mass produced bikes
I personally don't hold American mass manufacture to be any good. I mean look at your automotive industry. Frankly it produces crap.
I think that list is pretty subjective. I dont think you get any difference in quality from Orange vs. Foes vs. Rocy Mtn. personally. Its all good gear, and you're just playing favorites from that point on.Changleen said:
I thought that was the point of the thread.BurlyShirley said:
I have read of an experiment in which someone took a monkey from an established tribe and changed its color to green, then returned it to the tribe, which tore it apart. May or may not be true.
I think the tendency to buy local is to by from one's own tribe, which means approximately people that look like/think like/smell like me.
So, I hold that the decision's probably tribal, criteria for which can include color.
So yeah, in a sense it's a racist decision.
Does that address the original point?
J
I think the tendency to buy local is to by from one's own tribe, which means approximately people that look like/think like/smell like me.
So, I hold that the decision's probably tribal, criteria for which can include color.
So yeah, in a sense it's a racist decision.
Does that address the original point?
J
I think the simplest explanations tend to be right. So yeah.johnbryanpeters said:
Just to chime in here, being that I've been working for a company who uses Asian factories. (actually this is my last week)
A great deal of quality issues from Asian factories vs USA factories comes from the disconnect between the people designing the stuff, quality control, management, spec changes, etc.
If the company on this end is on top of it, there are alot of Asian factories that can produce extremely high quality goods. It's all in the sourcing, design and communication.
Where domestic quality tends to shine is that the communication is instant and the manufacturing is very responsive to changes. If a factory is to survive in the USA they have to be able to turn on a dime, this is one of the only advantages left in most US industries.
Some factory worker in Taiwan is just as capable of producing a high quality product as in the USA. It all comes down to management.
That said, the CONDITIONS at Asian factories run from excellent to extremely bad. (never mind the pay) Some companies enforce standards or they drop the vendor. Some comapanies, (like the one I work for) have a small army of people dedicated to enforcing these standards. Factories get audited and inspected on short notice. Those that don't comply get dropped.
Unfortunately this is not common enough. You want to have a clean concience? Look into the company you are buying from. Those that enforce standards usually say so.
BTW: I've seen some welding on USA made frames that really sucked.
A great deal of quality issues from Asian factories vs USA factories comes from the disconnect between the people designing the stuff, quality control, management, spec changes, etc.
If the company on this end is on top of it, there are alot of Asian factories that can produce extremely high quality goods. It's all in the sourcing, design and communication.
Where domestic quality tends to shine is that the communication is instant and the manufacturing is very responsive to changes. If a factory is to survive in the USA they have to be able to turn on a dime, this is one of the only advantages left in most US industries.
Some factory worker in Taiwan is just as capable of producing a high quality product as in the USA. It all comes down to management.
That said, the CONDITIONS at Asian factories run from excellent to extremely bad. (never mind the pay) Some companies enforce standards or they drop the vendor. Some comapanies, (like the one I work for) have a small army of people dedicated to enforcing these standards. Factories get audited and inspected on short notice. Those that don't comply get dropped.
Unfortunately this is not common enough. You want to have a clean concience? Look into the company you are buying from. Those that enforce standards usually say so.
BTW: I've seen some welding on USA made frames that really sucked.
*cough*cannondale*cough*H8R said:BTW: I've seen some welding on USA made frames that really sucked.
I personaly just like bikes that perform well, no matter what the cost. I oen a Foes(USA) a Yeti(USA+Taiwan) Mountain cycle(it's a rumble so Taiwan) a Marin(China) and a Litespeed(USA). I bought all of them based on quality.
But having worked in a shop and sold quite a few bikes in the past I do know for a fact that people prefer USA frames and secondly Canada/ UK. I don't know why this is either. The same people who will want a "full USA" bike will often drive a foreign car. It may be subtle racism, or just really good marketing by the American manufacturers. Also people don't often seen to care where it is actually made, just that it has a "Made in USA" sticker and doesn't say China/Malaysia/Taiwan ect anywhere else.
But having worked in a shop and sold quite a few bikes in the past I do know for a fact that people prefer USA frames and secondly Canada/ UK. I don't know why this is either. The same people who will want a "full USA" bike will often drive a foreign car. It may be subtle racism, or just really good marketing by the American manufacturers. Also people don't often seen to care where it is actually made, just that it has a "Made in USA" sticker and doesn't say China/Malaysia/Taiwan ect anywhere else.
Unions.
There's your problem right there.
There's your problem right there.
Country of origin has little to do with quality of an item any more. Just look at Toyota, they make most of their cars for the US in the US. You would be hard pressed to tell the differenct. Now for smaller items when shipping and tarrifs are not as big of a concern that similar quality is going to cost you much more to make domestically. Domestic bike makers have had to go after the higher end market, if not they would have gone out of business. The "lower" end builders have to build over seas where labour is cheaper out of necessity, the skill of the labor is just as good if not better than in the US as the cost of highly skilled labor in the US has been skyrocketing.
I suspect that you are daft.Greyhound said:
Excluding raw materials, it's unlikely that there's any piece on a bicycle being manufactured today that has been produced by union labor.
The company is based in Golden, CO. Frame mfg from their FAQ:dhbuilder said:
"Frames made in Colorado: 303 DH, AS-Rsl, Special Projects, and all race bikes and prototypes.
Frames made in Taiwan: ARC, AS-X, DJ, 575"
So the vast majority of their frames are Taiwanese.
NTTAWWT.
'guilty of being white'
All of my frames are custom built by a one-legged Eskimo in the basment of an underground parking garage in a savings and loan on a mountain on an island off the coast of Cambodia.
Yes - but since he's the only one, the picket line is pretty easy to cross when there is a strike.
Second World countries were formerly considered to be the Soviet Bloc, but since the fall of the Wall, the term has sort of fallen out of popularity. I believe it defines (d) any nation with a GDP per cap of between currently 10k-20k.BurlyShirley said:
The definition is still used on many Eastern European nations (I believe Portugal is still considered to be "Second World"), Russia, and a pair of developing Asian nations (Taiwan and S. Korea).
Since the end of the Cold War, the income gap between the First and the Third worlds has more commonly been referred to as the "North-South" divide.
Edit: I really should read the whole thread.
I recently read an interview with a German guy who was saying that they could get things manufactured to a higher standard (as well as cheaper) in China than they cousd in Germany but people would not buy them as they wanted the perceived higher quality of German-made goods.
My brother-in-law imports musical instruments from China and they are really nice items, today I'd have no qualms about buying Chinese, from a quality point of view anyway. However, until recently I would also have perceived Chinese goods as inferior. It's strange how we almost always assume that if we're paying more we're getting more, it's a marketeers* dream.
*Of course I meant to type pondlife.
My brother-in-law imports musical instruments from China and they are really nice items, today I'd have no qualms about buying Chinese, from a quality point of view anyway. However, until recently I would also have perceived Chinese goods as inferior. It's strange how we almost always assume that if we're paying more we're getting more, it's a marketeers* dream.
*Of course I meant to type pondlife.
American made is great quality! I've never seen an illegal mexican guest worker slack on the job.