[kidwoo]

I knew patagonia's interest in taking mountainbiker's money after years of funding their removal from public lands, and them getting a foothold in the downieville scene would lead to stupidity, but not from this old broken british fuck

Why Wilderness Matters More Than You - Patagonia Stories

BIKE Magazine contributing editor Michael Ferrentino on our perceived right to ride wherever we want. A Note from Patagonia: Our goal at Patagonia MTB is

www.patagonia.com

I stopped riding in wilderness areas when protecting wildlife habitat, biological diversity and the simple existence of ever-disappearing natural spaces came to mean more than my perceived right to recreate.

So just to be clear, riding a mountainbike on a well established trail, screws up wildlife habitat, threatens the diversity of biology (lol, wut), and removes the existence of natural spaces, just because a bike, and not a hiker or non-native horse is on that trail.


Oh how the money and attention hungry brain evolves. He knew how this works at one time....

https://www.bikemag.com/features/e-bikes-and-the-wilderness-debate

But the reality is that much of the designated Wilderness in the lower 48 has been well picked over by humans already. And the recent Wilderness land grabs in Montana and Idaho have been more about political legacy building and rich people wanting to showcase backyards than actual preservation of a raw and untrammeled backcountry.

 

[boostindoubles]

Wait retired attorneys flexing their legal ability to fuck over the masses? You don't say...

 

[stevew]

i kicked a rock in the wilderness and mike ferrentino popped up.....

 

[kidwoo]

i kicked a rock in the wilderness and mike ferrentino popped up.....

great

now biology is less diverse

GREAT JOB STEVE!!


nah just kidding. When hikers do it, it's fine. If that were a bike tire.......hooboy! Total ecological collapse, and loss of open space!

 

[eric strt6]

i kicked a rock in the wilderness and mike ferrentino popped up.....

Hey I know that guy. Back when he was a wrench at Bicycle trip Santa Cruz then at Yuba Adventures Downiville. I think I'm older than him though

 

[kidwoo]

Hey I know that guy.

wait till you read the first post of this thread

It's all about him!

 

[eric strt6]

wait till you read the first post of this thread

It's all about him!

Funny I poached the same places, I probably still would, still going solo and trying not to fuck shit up.

on a side note On a technical rescue of a fallen and massively injured rock climber we had a state parks ranger (Castle Rock State Park)go ballistic on us (Cal Fire) for having a hand crew widen a game trail to we could carry the person out and they cut down a 1" redwood sapling. It was a 4 hour rescue. He shut up when the captain turned to him and asked if he wanted to explain to the TV crews why he let the woman die over a few small trees.

This was and is a no bikes park but they are fine with climbers drilling bolts and scrubbing lichen off of rock faces and horse people ride the trails in muddy conditions and fucking it up for everyone. But bikes are the spawn of Satan

 

[kidwoo]

Funny I poached the same places, I probably still would, still going solo and trying not to fuck shit up.

on a side note On a technical rescue of a fallen and massively injured rock climber we had a state parks ranger (Castle Rock State Park)go ballistic on us (Cal Fire) for having a hand crew widen a game trail to we could carry the person out and they cut down a 1" redwood sapling. It was a 4 hour rescue. He shut up when the captain turned to him and asked if he wanted to explain to the TV crews why he let the woman die over a few small trees.

This was and is a no bikes park but they are fine with climbers drilling bolts and scrubbing lichen off of rock faces and horse people ride the trails in muddy conditions and fucking it up for everyone. But bikes are the spawn of Satan

you live in the epicenter of the desireables making laws to control the undesireables

Your captain is right. rock climbing must be banned to save the redwoods!

 

[rideit]

Ya know, I really would have no personal qualms about poaching the adjacent Wilderness to us on either e ebike or regular bike after dark. But there are two good reasons that I don’t. If I were caught for some reason (mechanical, injury), it would be all over the news. Not a good look.
Two is the big, bad animales, that’s when they are partying down.

 

[kidwoo]

Ya know, I really would have no personal qualms about poaching the adjacent Wilderness to us on either e ebike or regular bike after dark. But there are two good reasons that I don’t. If I were caught for some reason (mechanical, injury), it would be all over the news. Not a good look.
Two is the big, bad animales, that’s when they are partying down.

So do it in the day time and don't get hurt and make sure your bike works. If you haven't done much backpacking you'd get a kick out of all the trail braiding and horse destruction......you know, all the stuff they use to justify bike bans.

To me it's not even about poaching wilderness. Do it or don't, doesn't really matter. It's the complete sellout of someone who knew/knows damn well that wilderness designations are, and always have been about setting aside private playgrounds, accessible only to those wealthy enough to see them (IE people with enough money to blow off multiple days of work, if they work at all, and people with functional orthepedics, which is people with good medical care). Keep in mind, rich horsey lover Ronald Regan signed one of the first large scale wilderness designation bills as gov in CA. The more I look up names of his counterparts in other states, the backgrounds are always the same....wealthy.

All the way back to john muir, it's about removing the ugly dirty locals so that wealthy white people can purify themselves in nature, at least in their own brains.

It's always been about exclusion, enacted by the people that benefit the most from it via property values etc... Ecosystem arguments are just a means to an end, usually based in fantasy. And ferrentino damn well knows it. But now he has some patagonia hookup so he adopts the propaganda buzz words.

 

[mykel]

So do it in the day time and don't get hurt and make sure your bike works. If you haven't done much backpacking you'd get a kick out of all the trail braiding and horse destruction......you know, all the stuff they use to justify bike bans.

To me it's not even about poaching wilderness. Do it or don't, doesn't really matter. It's the complete sellout of someone who knew/knows damn well that wilderness designations are, and always have been about setting aside private playgrounds, accessible only to those wealthy enough to see them (IE people with enough money to blow off multiple days of work, if they work at all, and people with functional orthepedics, which is people with good medical care). Keep in mind, rich horsey lover Ronald Regan signed one of the first large scale wilderness designation bills as gov in CA. The more I look up names of his counterparts in other states, the backgrounds are always the same....wealthy.

All the way back to john muir, it's about removing the ugly dirty locals so that wealthy white people can purify themselves in nature, at least in their own brains.

It's always been about exclusion, enacted by the people that benefit the most from it via property values etc... Ecosystem arguments are just a means to an end, usually based in fantasy. And ferrentino damn well knows it. But now he has some patagonia hookup so he adopts the propaganda buzz words.

I know of two areas in the last 10 years that we built a couple of trails using just a bit of sculpting on natural landscape features and then kicked out of due to ecological reasons. We were lucky in one instance that we didn't get charged by the Environment Ministry blah blah blah... Strange how the hikers still used our trails though.

Guess what? They are now both subdivisions.

It is always about the dollars.

 

[jdcamb]

It is always about the dollars.

 

[JohnE]

So much meh.

I have lived and pedaled in so many cool places, and many not so cool. As far as I Know, none of them have combusted or been over polpulated or otherwise destroyed because of my pedal strokes. Writer needs to get over himself and his self righteousosity. It not like we are ripping our monster trucks through Maroon Bells...

 

[slyfink]

I know of two areas in the last 10 years that we built a couple of trails using just a bit of sculpting on natural landscape features and then kicked out of due to ecological reasons. We were lucky in one instance that we didn't get charged by the Environment Ministry blah blah blah... Strange how the hikers still used our trails though.

Guess what? They are now both subdivisions.

It is always about the dollars.

That happens so much here it's disheartening. The funniest is an area I'd been riding on since my youth that would periodically get closed down for ecological reasons. Then they built a fucking 6 lane highway through there.

 

[jonKranked]

It is always about the dollars.

money and greed fucks everything up

 

[canadmos]

money and greed fucks everything up

And politicians representing areas that they could not give two shits about. IE, they don't live where they "work".

 

[kidwoo]

So much meh.

I have lived and pedaled in so many cool places, and many not so cool. As far as I Know, none of them have combusted or been over polpulated or otherwise destroyed because of my pedal strokes. Writer needs to get over himself and his self righteousosity. It not like we are ripping our monster trucks through Maroon Bells...

Oh come on man, you can't use probably one of the biggest examples of exactly what I'm talking about. Maroon Bells wilderness exists because of the wealth in aspen, not because the rocks are in 'danger' of anything.

It's to show off the pretty cul de sac next to the 10,000 sq ft 'family cabin' and to keep the filth from gunnison on their side

 

[kidwoo]

And politicians representing areas that they could not give two shits about. IE, they don't live where they "work".

The story of boulder/white clouds wilderness areas. Once I saw the empty mansions around there, I knew it was about a congressional rep's 'legacy' and nothing to do with conservation of anything (because it already was protected by several other laws and provisions)

At least here it's land managers as well.


Part of a lawsuit I'm involved in right now includes our complaint about a biological opinion on an endangered frog. They hibernate in winter, well underground (usually in rodent burrows or undercut stream banks, sometimes under water deep enough to be below the ice).

So called biologists in the bay area think snowmobiles are going to run over them. Like they really believe this because they've never been in heavy snow areas at 10k elevation in their lives.

 

[MonkeyGut]

^^^ Is it related to the USFS OSV analysis, etc?

 

[kidwoo]

^^^ Is it related to the USFS OSV analysis, etc?

you know it!

just another phase in the great white gentrification of our public lands!

 

[MonkeyGut]

I've worked on parts of it in the past. Did some noise analysis...fukkin noise....

 

[kidwoo]

I've worked on parts of it in the past. Did some noise analysis...fukkin noise....

Where?

This is pretty new (at least the specific subpart C component of the travel management rule being implemented), and in that specific context, we're suing over the very first one signed on USFS land. A few other forests have picked it up willingly or under pressure from the group that won a lawsuit making a thing but at least to my knowledge no other forest has finalized anything.

Regarding noise: If I ever get a chance to throat punch all the midwestern exhaust companies that make 'mountain cans' I will not waste the opportunity.

Every one of those companies is nowhere near anything that could be considered mountains but we have to deal the consequences of assholes using them, a large part of which are minnesotans on vacation.

 

[MonkeyGut]

Through the FS awhile ago. Yeah, there have been a few iterations due to of course...lawsuits. They are critical. Horses and walkers/aren't analyzed as things/actions and the impacts of those. FuctUp. The funny thing is adding the word mechanized should eliminate the AT binding...but

 

[kidwoo]

Through the FS awhile ago. Yeah, there have been a few iterations due to of course...lawsuits. They are critical. Horses and walkers/aren't analyzed as things/actions and the impacts of those. FuctUp. The funny thing is adding the word mechanized should eliminate the AT binding...but

what forest specifically?


If had enough money, I'd absolutely sue the forest service over AT bindings in wilderness. Just for fun. And to get skiers to pay attention to the assholes that claim to speak for them.

 

[MonkeyGut]

Lassen originally, about a decade ago and then it was picked up by someone else. An AT binding is mechanical, no doubt....do it! The trammelled zones around outfitter camps and basically the entire trails that lead to them are some of the most hammered zones I have seen anywhere, not just the W. The shit in the Bob is worse than some of the ATV THs and stream crossing zones. So much shit. Anyway, how's the moto digging Salida zonal situations?

 

[kidwoo]

Lassen originally, about a decade ago and then it was picked up by someone else. An AT binding is mechanical, no doubt....do it! The trammelled zones around outfitter camps and basically the entire trails that lead to them are some of the most hammered zones I have seen anywhere, not just the W. The shit in the Bob is worse than some of the ATV THs and stream crossing zones. So much shit. Anyway, how's the moto digging Salida zonal situations?

The lassen is the only one in ca I wasnt deeply involved with 5 forests doing them at once. We didnt have legal standing on that so its the only one thats been signed since we filed in the stanislaus. You know the high lakes area east of magalia? They closed it all because of the pct running through there up from the nf feather river canyon 4k below. They also created a legal jeapordy situation by lake almanor where you cant park on the same side of the highway as the area they left open....so stupid

The AT binding thing is tough. I would do if there really was fuck off money but I also dont like acting like the hate groups

Havent left for salida yet. Theres a heatwave moving over us right now and Im not driving across nv in 110 degrees. Seems like asking for trouble

 

[MonkeyGut]

I don't know about that magalia zone but can imagine some inexplicable shitaqua re: the pct, it's associated buffers and the 'rules' to follow when within the sacred zone. Rules for Recreation...the old me would say oxymoronic.
Well, if there's anywhere trouble is plentiful, it's Tonopah. Good call!

 

[kidwoo]

I don't know about that magalia zone but can imagine some inexplicable shitaqua re: the pct, it's associated buffers and the 'rules' to follow when within the sacred zone. Rules for Recreation...the old me would say oxymoronic.
Well, if there's anywhere trouble is plentiful, it's Tonopah. Good call!

See? Even you picked it up. Nothing in the national scenic trails act or the PCT management plan has jack shit about a buffer. That's something the PCTA made up and the USFS lapped it up. That was never part of any establishment, nor management plan of the trail. The PCTA just thought by taking it on, it would give them a battle to fight. Nevermind no one is hiking up a muddy 3k elevation to get to a trail you can't find once you get to the snow line. There is no pct buffer. They tried to create the concept in the sled plans because they figured that was the easiest group to beat. Then use that as a precedent for everything else from mountainbikes to whatever else they deemed tainted their beautiful white privileged asses.

Tonapah? Love it. But don't love meth enough to live there.

 

[rideit]

There’s always Tehachape, as the songs goes.

 

[6thElement]

Resistance grows against the Bureau of Land Management’s conservation-centric public land rule

EDITORIAL Opposition is escalating to the Bureau of Land Management’s plan to impose a sweeping new public lands management rule that undermines long-establi

www.rvtravel.com

 

[kidwoo]

Resistance grows against the Bureau of Land Management’s conservation-centric public land rule

EDITORIAL Opposition is escalating to the Bureau of Land Management’s plan to impose a sweeping new public lands management rule that undermines long-establi

www.rvtravel.com

That's pretty good for a brief summary.

Have you read the actual rule?

It's insane. Say I'm a multimillion dollar non-profit or a mulitmillion dollar asshole with a house up against, or overlookng BLM land, I can literally just pay money to keep everyone out of it so as to 'preserve the view'. Just got a call it a conservation lease. Public land available for a price.

Lot's of people, including myself have some congress people raising hell over it. You can't completely change the way a gigantic agency like that manages its land, overruling it's own charters, without congressional action.

You'll notice where the praise comes from.

BLM’s new ‘Public Lands Rule’ could increase access to outdoor recreation

The Bureau of Land Management will host a meeting on Thursday in Golden for members of the public to learn more about its proposed “Public Lands Rule,” a new effort to recognize conservation as a...

www.vaildaily.com

Chandler-Henry: BLM needs conservation rule

I recently testified at a U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Natural Resources hearing in Washington, D.C., to express my support for the Bureau of Land Management’s proposed Public Lands Rule. Growing up in Eagle,...

www.aspentimes.com

They held a meeting in reno back when it was announced and it was the most 'shut up, this is what we're doing, your input doesn't matter' format I've ever seen. Considering NV is like 70% or more BLM land, it's a fundraising dream come true for wilderness freaks. That's decades worth of justifying their existence, endless fundraising, and paying those fancy salaries.

 

[kidwoo]

There’s always Tehachape, as the songs goes.

It think the song spells it correctly

I helped build some ginormous jumps for a christian cult in tehachapi

 

[rideit]

Yeah, welll….you smell of elderberries

 

[MonkeyGut]

WSAs are essentially W without congressional approval.
Some of our best summer riding is/was in a couple WSAs.
Tehachapi, Bako's mountain paradise! The first time I saw the San Joaquin Soup was coming down the 58 back to the bakes.

 

[kidwoo]

WSAs are essentially W without congressional approval.

As is recommended wilderness with the forest service.

One forest in montana came up with a rule to manage them the same as wilderness and the rest of the country started doing the same. The abuse with this stuff is insane.

 

[jstuhlman]

WSAs are essentially W without congressional approval.
Some of our best summer riding is/was in a couple WSAs.
Tehachapi, Bako's mountain paradise! The first time I saw the San Joaquin Soup was coming down the 58 back to the bakes.

a lot of the goods in the other pisgah are in wsa's. hikers are ok in them. ain't never seen none though. in many years riding in em. did see one dude trail running once. never seen anyone studying the wilderness either. i've studied the soil pretty closely on a few occasions though

@kidwoo i wish my kiddo hadn't racked up the medical bills earlier this summer because some of my crew are holing up in your neck of the woods in early august and if things were otherwise i'd have been with em.

 

[kidwoo]

@kidwoo i wish my kiddo hadn't racked up the medical bills earlier this summer because some of my crew are holing up in your neck of the woods in early august and if things were otherwise i'd have been with em.

nobody goes to tahoe anymore

too crowded



god bless american healthcare. take care of the speared kid, that looked gnarly