[joeg]

I used to use a throttle power electric V10 to pull a trailer with my offspring, but its got its limitations (wifey has trouble fitting and driving an electric DH bike, and some image concerns).

So we got this thing the other day.

Interesting its the same motor, battery and UI as an electric Haibike or any other e-mtb I've tried.

In my mind, the bolting of the same shit to a 100+lb cargo/kid carrier vehicle (I can't call that thing a bike) and then putting it on an alleged "performance" mountain bike makes a statement about where this "technology" is right now.

 

[joeg]

Lots of references to "just ride a moto" as well, which I think is interesting, because it becomes a gas vs. not-gas discussion then. And electric motocross/trail bike is in its infancy.

I've been on the early depositor list for a Redshift for FIVE YEARS! (the founders and engineers all ride MTB, met them in downieville), and deliver of the bike in 2016 is anticipated. This would be first legit e-moto: http://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmx#redshiftmxpage1

Not that I would ever poach the trails near my house with it, but if I did, I think I would feel less shame than riding a pedelec MTB.

 

[Flo33]

Lots of references to "just ride a moto" as well, which I think is interesting, because it becomes a gas vs. not-gas discussion then. And electric motocross/trail bike is in its infancy.

I've been on the early depositor list for a Redshift for FIVE YEARS! (the founders and engineers all ride MTB, met them in downieville), and deliver of the bike in 2016 is anticipated. This would be first legit e-moto: http://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmx#redshiftmxpage1

Not that I would ever poach the trails near my house with it, but if I did, I think I would feel less shame than riding a pedelec MTB.

Why would you consider the KTM Freeride E-SX not a legit e-moto?

 

[joeg]

Why would you consider the KTM Freeride E-SX not a legit e-moto?

is it for sale currently? I was under the belief that KTM had sidelined their E project, and the local dealer has no insights (or bikes) so maybe its just local lack of knowledge.

 

[Flo33]

is it for sale currently? I was under the belief that KTM had sidelined their E project, and the local dealer has no insights (or bikes) so maybe its just local lack of knowledge.

In Austria it definitely is, http://www.ktm.com/at/e-ride/freeride-e-sx-2016/

 

[StiHacka]

So we got this thing the other day. View attachment 123504

Interesting its the same motor, battery and UI as an electric Haibike or any other e-mtb I've tried.

Do you plan to take that thing off some sweet jumps?

 

[Lelandjt]

In Austria it definitely is, http://www.ktm.com/at/e-ride/freeride-e-sx-2016/

In Austria it definitely is, http://www.ktm.com/at/e-ride/freeride-e-sx-2016/

The weird thing is I can't find any owners' forums of reviews. I haven't found any evidence that someone has actually bought one. I've had the 2stroke Freeride for a year and have been keeping an eye on the E but no word on when it's coming to the US. Too bad both it and the Redshift weight 250ish pounds. The 194lb stock weight of the Freeride 250 is one of its best traits.

 

[jonKranked]

In the last two or three weeks the shop I'm at had 4 *Rambo bikes in boxes get dropped to be build. Then we had two motobecane bikes with *Luna cycle; it's an add-a-motor style. All the bikes mentioned were fat bikes, all the bikes are pedal assisted but all have a thumb throttle that can be 100% motor. All with in the last month, and this is something we have tryed to adamantly stay away from,but allas the plague has found us.

*Rambo is camo https://rambobikes.com/
*Luna is china add a motor to what ever
http://lunacycle.com

kill list

 

[jonKranked]

actually, i take that back. e-fat-bikes for hunting are actually, IMO, a decent use for them. very niche, but still good. when you consider a hunter will be carrying bow/rifle, likely a treestand, that's a good way to go. esp when you consider the extra 75-100lbs or more you will be hauling if you bag a deer. my dad has been using a mountain bike to hunt for probably 10+ years now. takes closed access former logging roads to remote areas in a nat'l forest. no ATV's allowed kind of area, although some people do it. he made some modifications to a bike rack to carry a tree stand.

 

[kidwoo]

I've been on the early depositor list for a Redshift for FIVE YEARS! (the founders and engineers all ride MTB, met them in downieville), and deliver of the bike in 2016 is anticipated. This would be first legit e-moto: http://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmx#redshiftmxpage1

Heh. This is the CEO.

http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/members/ohio.1031/

We used to be friends before he embarked on this life-sucking endeavor of his.

Stoked to see those things finally in the real world of production. Have you seen one in person? They did a good job.

 

[kidwoo]

ha ha... over reaction. Much?

There is no SHITSTORM here. I very much doubt there is wherever it is you live either.

You're wrong. The UK doesn't have the sierra club (and more importantly the self-interested mindset that supports a lot of what they do), the wilderness society etc......

You honestly have no idea.

 

[Gary]

Dude. John Muir was born and grew up 500metres from where I did.
You really think we don't have equivalent organisations to your "Sierra Club" over here?

 

[kidwoo]

Dude. John Muir was born and grew up 500metres from where I did.
You really think we don't have equivalent organisations to your "Sierra Club" over here?

"Similar to" sure. But the legislative and lobbying power of........ I doubt it. It's a matter of scale. And this place is a lot newer that's still kind of filling out, us idiots haven't figured out some things yet. But the fact that you honestly think that ebikes aren't causing any sort of shit storm for access just tells me that there really isn't an equivalent over there.

But yes, the ebike thing is now constantly being brought up here by those groups. Largely in response to a bill that seeks to at least open the possibility of consideration of American Wilderness areas to bikes. Ebikes are hurting that cause. In more crowded areas already open to bikes run by local governments, land managers are catching hell about them. Given, I'm in a little bit of a hotbed, being just up the hill in a bunch of entitled rich fuck's playground where every pretty vista must be turned into a protected wilderness area, but trust me, the struggle is real.

 

[Gary]

Fair doos.

Thanks for explaining the definition of "Shitstorm" betterer from your perspective.

We are very lucky in Scotland when it comes to access laws compared to most of the richer parts of the world I know. Kinda partly why I had a problem with RC blowing it out of proportion (seemingly) on a worldwide scale. E-bike hate is pretty strong on these shores too... but as you've noted it's really not the problem you have over there. and on the whole fairly unfounded hate/gripes.

 

[jonKranked]

"Similar to" sure. But the legislative and lobbying power of........ I doubt it. It's a matter of scale. And this place is a lot newer that's still kind of filling out, us idiots haven't figured out some things yet. But the fact that you honestly think that ebikes aren't causing any sort of shit storm for access just tells me that there really isn't an equivalent over there.

But yes, the ebike thing is now constantly being brought up here by those groups. Largely in response to a bill that seeks to at least open the possibility of consideration of American Wilderness areas to bikes. Ebikes are hurting that cause. In more crowded areas already open to bikes run by local governments, land managers are catching hell about them. Given, I'm in a little bit of a hotbed, being just up the hill in a bunch of entitled rich fuck's playground where every pretty vista must be turned into a protected wilderness area, but trust me, the struggle is real.

they're too busy leaving the EU to worry about trail access. now THAT'S gonna be a shitstorm.

 

[StiHacka]

Fair doos.

Thanks for explaining the definition of "Shitstorm" betterer from your perspective.

We are very lucky in Scotland when it comes to access laws compared to most of the richer parts of the world I know. Kinda partly why I had a problem with RC blowing it out of proportion (seemingly) on a worldwide scale. E-bike hate is pretty strong on these shores too... but as you've noted it's really not the problem you have over there. and on the whole fairly unfounded hate/gripes.

You probably have not seen a park ranger with a radar gun handing out speed tickets either. Or tickets for bike access violation worth several hundred quid. Or whole trail systems shut down because nature (even if 10 just miles from city centers). The fight for access is just bizarre in the land of the free.

 

[jonKranked]

You probably have not seen a park ranger with a radar gun handing out speed tickets either. Or tickets for bike access violation worth several hundred quid. Or whole trail systems shut down because nature (even if 10 just miles from city centers). The fight for access is just bizarre in the land of the free.

i once personally witnessed, at a town council meeting, a woman claim she saw mountain bike tire tread marks on a dead rabbit while on the verge of tears.

 

[kidwoo]

i once personally witnessed, at a town council meeting, a woman claim she saw mountain bike tire tread marks on a dead rabbit while on the verge of tears.

I'd actually be a little bummed on that too......if it happened.

Similarly, I sat in a USFS meeting regarding future forest plans and watched a lady in her 300s shake her fist at one of the FS employees discussing trail improvements for mountainbiking and screaming "yooo destroying motha earf!!!"

She was in there with a whole group of people literally arriving by bus and asking everyone in the room where good food was (as in obviously not familiar with the area). I never believed the sierra club busing people in stuff, but I've seen it multiple times now. Crazy bitch just kept saying 'more wilderness' every time one of the FS people tried to address everything in a forest plan from fuels management to parking lot pit toilets.

Ain't no crazy like rich retired crazy. Defending e mountain bikes as anything other than a motorized means of transportation is like "Merry Christmas! Here ya go nutjobs!"

 

[jonKranked]

I'd actually be a little bummed on that too......if it happened.

Similarly, I sat in a USFS meeting regarding future forest plans and watched a lady in her 300s shake her fist at one of the FS employees discussing trail improvements for mountainbiking and screaming "yooo destroying motha earf!!!"

She was in there with a whole group of people literally arriving by bus and asking everyone in the room where good food was (as in obviously not familiar with the area). I never believed the sierra club busing people in stuff, but I've seen it multiple times now. Crazy bitch just kept saying 'more wilderness' every time one of the FS people tried to address everything in a forest plan from fuels management to parking lot pit toilets.

Ain't no crazy like rich retired crazy. Defending e mountain bikes as anything other than a motorized means of transportation is like "Merry Christmas! Here ya go nutjobs!"

it's a big "if". the best part was that it later came to light the rabbits she was crying about were an invasive species to the area.

 

[Gary]

mountain bike tire tread marks on a dead rabbit while on the verge of tears.

On a local night ride a couple of years back my mate (riding infront) hit and rode over a badger... It just pinged up in the air. Landed. kinda did a little breakdance infront of me before diving back into the undergrowth just before I'd probably have hit it too.

Pretty sure it didn't cry. Our badgers are tough fuckers!

 

[weedkilla]

I'm going to buy an e bike.

None of the uses I have for it are fun. I would use a moto if I could, petrol or electric.

I want to set up a miniature spray rig on a bob trailer and spray the sides of singletrack where my current atv setup won't fit.
I want to use it for event set up, mostly for enduros, they are a total pain in the neck to setup. I do this as a vollie, but if I've got one, why not.

I had no intention of getting one, until I met someone with one on a ride. Super fit guy on a mtb, girlfriend on an e-bike. She was enjoying a ride with him instead of suffering while he got bored. We got talking about its capabilities and I was impressed. Shortly after a customer came to me with a problem that would result in a job for an e bike. I suggested a moto and they wouldn't come at it. There are certain "green" government departments that see an e bike as more acceptable than a moto, even when it's a totally legitimate work scenario.

Trail audits, towing trailers with tools, there are several "work" applications where they will serve as a second rate moto. I fundamentally don't care why they exist, but if it's a tool that will make me money I'll have one.

 

[Electric_City]

I like the "Trail tuned 250w motor". What the fuck does that mean?

 

[jonKranked]

I want to set up a miniature spray rig on a bob trailer and spray the sides of singletrack where my current atv setup won't fit.
I want to use it for event set up, mostly for enduros, they are a total pain in the neck to setup. I do this as a vollie, but if I've got one, why not.

what the hell are you spraying trail side for an enduro event? EPO?

 

[kickstand]

what the hell are you spraying trail side for an enduro event? EPO?

Perhaps weedkilla?

 

[kidwoo]

I'm going to buy an e bike.

None of the uses I have for it are fun. I would use a moto if I could, petrol or electric.

I want to set up a miniature spray rig on a bob trailer and spray the sides of singletrack where my current atv setup won't fit.
I want to use it for event set up, mostly for enduros, they are a total pain in the neck to setup. I do this as a vollie, but if I've got one, why not.

I had no intention of getting one, until I met someone with one on a ride. Super fit guy on a mtb, girlfriend on an e-bike. She was enjoying a ride with him instead of suffering while he got bored. We got talking about its capabilities and I was impressed. Shortly after a customer came to me with a problem that would result in a job for an e bike. I suggested a moto and they wouldn't come at it. There are certain "green" government departments that see an e bike as more acceptable than a moto, even when it's a totally legitimate work scenario.

Trail audits, towing trailers with tools, there are several "work" applications where they will serve as a second rate moto. I fundamentally don't care why they exist, but if it's a tool that will make me money I'll have one.

Buy an alta redshift.

 

[Toshi]

Buy an alta redshift.

That's what, $15k? $20k? And the usual 37" seat height MX business.

I think there's a market for a cheap, tame 5-10 kW electric motorcycle that is as of yet untapped. There are goofy things designed to skirt moped laws [1] but nothing that isn't stupid.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/09/technology/bolt-electric-bike/

 

[jonKranked]

Perhaps weedkilla?

that won't give you the Spirit of Enduro™

 

[kidwoo]

That's what, $15k? $20k? And the usual 37" seat height MX business.

I think there's a market for a cheap, tame 5-10 kW electric motorcycle that is as of yet untapped. There are goofy things designed to skirt moped laws [1] but nothing that isn't stupid.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/09/technology/bolt-electric-bike/

You can get one for 14k. And then what you have is actually functional and fun to ride, vs. a strictly utilitarian half bike.

It'll last a hell of a lot longer too.


I just checked specialized and you can get a 4k e-hardtail or a 4500 low end FSR. That's actually not too bad.

 

[Toshi]

You can get one for 14k. And then what you have is actually functional and fun to ride, vs. a strictly utilitarian half bike.

It'll last a hell of a lot longer too.


I just checked specialized and you can get a 4k e-hardtail or a 4500 low end FSR. That's actually not too bad.

That's what I'm saying: Don't make it a half bike. Don't pretend to be a bike. Make it a light, relatively low powered electric motorcycle. No pedals, none of that bullshit: own it.

 

[kidwoo]

. No pedals, none of that bullshit: own it.

Yeah that's what I said

 

[jonKranked]

That's what, $15k? $20k? And the usual 37" seat height MX business.

I think there's a market for a cheap, tame 5-10 kW electric motorcycle that is as of yet untapped. There are goofy things designed to skirt moped laws [1] but nothing that isn't stupid.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/09/technology/bolt-electric-bike/

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Perhaps weedkilla?

Remind me to stay way the hell away from trails he "maintains".

 

[ianjenn]

 

[weedkilla]

what the hell are you spraying trail side for an enduro event? EPO?

I see how you read it that way. Enduro setup and weed control are two different things. I have been involved in the local club and running races for a long time, my work is mostly environmental weed control.

I doubt this is the place to discuss the ways herbicide can be used correctly and how it can be used incorrectly in trail maintenance, but the short version is I have customers who want it. Done correctly I can select out various annual weeds, promote native grass growth and do what a brushcutter would do at less than 1/3 the cost.
Like anything, herbicide use has a bad reputation from poor use, poor chemical choice and a tobacco industry style manipulation of data by some of the big companies.

The point I was trying to make is there are work based applications for these e-bikes, you would choose something else if you could, but land managers are weird.

 

[kidwoo]

Truly

A killa of weedz


so my massive roundup fogging cloud approach to keeping underbrush back is no Bueno?

 

[weedkilla]

Truly

A killa of weedz


so my massive roundup fogging cloud approach to keeping underbrush back is no Bueno?

Roundup makes weeds. I wouldn't have half my work if someone didn't choose roundup in the wrong place, at the wrong time and apply it poorly.

 

[kidwoo]

Soft, girly stalked weeds are fine, it's the gnarly tobacco brush and manzanita I'm trying to kill



I've taken out some poison oak vines as thick as my arm with it before....... Worked pretty well there.

 

[dump]

Roundup makes weeds. I wouldn't have half my work if someone didn't choose roundup in the wrong place, at the wrong time and apply it poorly.

interest piqued. Mind expanding on that a bit? Thanks.

 

[weedkilla]

interest piqued. Mind expanding on that a bit? Thanks.

Real quick version - Mother Nature doesn't do empty spaces. Roundup is non selective, it takes out what you want to keep as well as what you want to remove. The following season that empty space will grow something (99% of the time), usually that is a fast growing, invasive species. You end up with a bigger problem than you started with. Add that to the fact that it's been the most used chemical for 40 years and we are seeing resistance issues and you can easily create a clusterfrick.
It has its place - but it's over used, and too frequently used poorly.

 

[kidwoo]

I fill garbage bags with it, then throw that in another garbage bag with butane, then run a fuse to it.

Is that bad?