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Pelosi sure knows musicians....

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
:rofl:
http://www.huckpac.com/?Fuseaction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=3086

..if you're a musician, or whatever..you can leave your work, focus on your talent, your skill, your passions, your aspirations...because you will have healthcare, you don't have to be job-locked
she assumes that "musicians" had jobs in the first place.


screw work, i'm an "artistic type" so i'm gonna live off of you guys for a while :thumb: ;)

yay..the transition from a society that once prided itself on hard work and sacrifice


has officially gone a full 180 to the celebration of this guy
 
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ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
yay..the transition from a society that once prided itself on hard work and sacrifice
If you can stop your chicken littling and waving your cane at the damn hippies for a minute, you'd realize she actually has a good point. Availability of affordable healthcare is one of the primary challenges that prevents entrepreneurs from pursuing their ventures. In this case her audience was music students, so she was specific, but it applies to everyone who is job locked.

I'm starting a company right now. I'm continuing to hold onto my day job because even though I'm young, active, healthy, non-smoking my health insurance would be $1000/mo on my own. That means working 80-100 weeks and starting the company much more slowly than I otherwise could.

50 years ago, health insurance wasn't 20% of a middle class income and more than most pay in rent. People could more easily take risks on ventures that are the engine of our growth economy. Much harder to do these days thanks to the cancerous system private healthcare has morphed into.

edit: also, if you're all about priding yourself on hard work and sacrifice, you should try making it as a pro musician. Have you seen the way they live?
 
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manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
If you can stop your chicken littling and waving your cane at the damn hippies for a minute, you'd realize she actually has a good point. Availability of affordable healthcare is one of the primary challenges that prevents entrepreneurs from pursuing their ventures. In this case her audience was music students, so she was specific, but it applies to everyone who is job locked.

I'm starting a company right now. I'm continuing to hold onto my day job because even though I'm young, active, healthy, non-smoking my health insurance would be $1000/mo on my own. That means working 80-100 weeks and starting the company much more slowly than I otherwise could.

50 years ago, health insurance wasn't 20% of a middle class income and more than most pay in rent. People could more easily take risks on ventures that are the engine of our growth economy. Much harder to do these days thanks to the cancerous system private healthcare has morphed into.

edit: also, if you're all about priding yourself on hard work and sacrifice, you should try making it as a pro musician. Have you seen the way they live?
that's all fine and dandy...but sell the "no longer job-locked" bit to those, like yourself, who are doing something beneficial for the economy by opening a business, not pandering to those who are, stereotypically, not much for working in the first place. i just thought she could have chosen a more suitable audience to sell the redistribution message.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
Yeah, Jimi Hendrix to Beck would be better people if they had jobs to support themselves.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
those who are, stereotypically, not much for working in the first place.
I think you're confusing musicians with deadbeat trustafarian street kids. They are not one and the same.

The musicians I know:
- 1 writer/composer/performer, lives 10 months of the year on the road, sharing a van with 5 other dudes. Is in recording studio the other 2 months. Is one of the best in his field (bluegrass), and lives a decent middle class existence, at least until he and his fiance have kids.
- 1 film scorer/composer, works 80 hours weeks. lives decent middle class existence in LA, because his wife also works.
- 1 singer/songwriter, 10 months of the year on the road, solo (sometimes with manager, sometimes with wife). Would live, but in poverty, if not for wife's income.
- 1 guitarist, hung up his musician hat after touring and recording for 8 or so years to go back to school for industrial design. Works 60-70 hour weeks as a designer. Does weddings and other events when possible.

All folks that work some of the longest hours for the least reward of anyone I can think of. All pay taxes and contribute to society. All bring joy to the country through their art. Get over the stereotype. It's not a cush life. The only lazy musicians I know are the ones supported by family money, and guess what? That's not just musicians, it's every profession or lack thereof.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
32,267
3,089
i did...back in the 80's.

so tell me again how musicians help the economy?
you seemed to imply that musicians were lazy in your original post.

i'd say some work harder to do what they do then you ever have.

that simple.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,146
2,978
Portland, OR
you seemed to imply that musicians were lazy in your original post.

i'd say some work harder to do what they do then you ever have.

that simple.
When a friend of mine was trying to launch his production company, he was pulling 60+ hour weeks at his day job, then spending his nights trying to support local talent downtown.

A light week was 3 shows. He did that for 2 years until he could finally quit the day job, he is crazy.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
0
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
has officially gone a full 180 to the celebration of this guy
You're confused. Go to the nearest professional orchestra. Talk to the concertmaster (He/she will be the violin player sitting closest to the audience & conductor). Ask them about how much they practice a day. How many private lessons they taught per day before "hitting it big". Ask them about the schooling involved and why a 4 credit music course takes at least 2x the work outside of the classroom that every other 4 credit "real" course takes.

You do that. Come back with an informed opinion and not some bs pic of some random stoner that you think represents the "musical community" at large.


kthxbai.



P.S. Toshi to the white courtesy phone plz.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
Tell me about musicians. You know.....work habits and all that.


Do your best to sound original and minimze overused phrases.
Highly driven and creative toward their music/art. Often socially eclectic with peripheral world views but a distaste for "traditional" employment.

I suppose you never pegged me as a musician but, alas, my original plan after high school was to use the scholarship I had earned from a vocal competition sponsored by Disney's Voices of Liberty, to pursue a career in vocal performance as a music teacher. Unfortunately, my love for hardcore music, particularly as a vocalist/rhythm guitarist, overpowered my desire to go to college after high school. it took the structure/work ethic of the Marine Corps to snap me into shape and make me into the right-minded individual i am today :D

so back to the point. Pelosi knows musicians...am I wrong? who wouldn't want to quit work and play music all day? the problem is the attitude and image that is portrayed by this proclamation. "The Type A's will work harder at their menial jobs so that you, the special ones, the creative and artistic, can ignore this thing called responsibility to pursue your special dream."

where is the speech where pelosi tells engineers that they can quit work to build cool stuff in their garages w/out a boss nagging them about deadlines and budget constraints?

and at the risk of intense ridicule...i offer you proof of my musical background.
1994 Madrigal Dinner (ie: where all the chorus geeks have to dress up in Renaissance era clothing and entertain dinner guest with songs and jests)
(top right)
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
You're confused. Go to the nearest professional orchestra. Talk to the concertmaster (He/she will be the violin player sitting closest to the audience & conductor). Ask them about how much they practice a day. How many private lessons they taught per day before "hitting it big". Ask them about the schooling involved and why a 4 credit music course takes at least 2x the work outside of the classroom that every other 4 credit "real" course takes.

You do that. Come back with an informed opinion and not some bs pic of some random stoner that you think represents the "musical community" at large.


kthxbai.



P.S. Toshi to the white courtesy phone plz.
nice try SS...see above.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
0
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
Highly driven and creative toward their music/art. Often socially eclectic with peripheral world views but a distaste for "traditional" employment.

I suppose you never pegged me as a musician but, alas, my original plan after high school was to use the scholarship I had earned from a vocal competition sponsored by Disney's Voices of Liberty, to pursue a career in vocal performance as a music teacher. Unfortunately, my love for hardcore music, particularly as a vocalist/rhythm guitarist, overpowered my desire to go to college after high school. it took the structure/work ethic of the Marine Corps to snap me into shape and make me into the right-minded individual i am today :D

so back to the point. Pelosi knows musicians...am I wrong? who wouldn't want to quit work and play music all day? the problem is the attitude and image that is portrayed by this proclamation. "The Type A's will work harder at their menial jobs so that you, the special ones, the creative and artistic, can ignore this thing called responsibility to pursue your special dream."

where is the speech where pelosi tells engineers that they can quit work to build cool stuff in their garages w/out a boss nagging them about deadlines and budget constraints?

and at the risk of intense ridicule...i offer you proof of my musical background.
1994 Madrigal Dinner (ie: where all the chorus geeks have to dress up in Renaissance era clothing and entertain dinner guest with songs and jests)
(top right)
Manimal said:
nice try SS...see above.
If that's how you see it with your high school music background then there is no helping you.

That's not even close.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
0
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
Oh...and it's not that musicians just want to up and quit and play music all day, it's that with health insurance being what it is, for the majority of musicians it's just not realistic.

I'm sure that there are some engineers that want to up and quit and start building stuff in their garages. But there's that pesky insurance problem again.

A lot of professional musicians HAVE to work a day job to just make ends meet (and have insurance) and BE RESPONSIBLE. Quite the opposite of your portrayal.

But what do I know.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
If that's how you see it with your high school music background then there is no helping you.

That's not even close.
well i suppose i'll just take your word for it Johanne. :rolleyes:

the question still stands:

who's going to pay for this?
why should the non-musicians/artists pay for the "creative ones" to hone their trade devoid of the basic responsibilities and realities of life. 'man, that pianist has the potential to be amazing..too bad he has to work like the rest of us, he should be able to live off of us for a while so that he can perfect his art form"
i thought that's what college was for?
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,635
26
behind the viewfinder
Highly driven and creative toward their music/art. Often socially eclectic with peripheral world views but a distaste for "traditional" employment.
have you ever tried to put together tours and still hang on to 'traditional employment'?

and get health insurance at the same time?




alex chilton recently died because of no health insurance. there are countless others.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Narlus, excellent choice for the new avatar, and appropriate for this thread. RIP, RJD.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
0
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
well i suppose i'll just take your word for it Johanne. :rolleyes:

the question still stands:

who's going to pay for this?
why should the non-musicians/artists pay for the "creative ones" to hone their trade devoid of the basic responsibilities and realities of life. 'man, that pianist has the potential to be amazing..too bad he has to work like the rest of us, he should be able to live off of us for a while so that he can perfect his art form"
i thought that's what college was for?
Yeah...because a universal healthcare plan would automatically pay musicians rent, buy their food, and put gas in their cars. Sure...basic realities of life. All covered.

I see now. You were only feigning being up in arms about shirking responsibility, you're really trying to justify your indignation about universal healthcare.

Tossing it on Pelosi (D) is just the easiest way for you to do it. Got it.

Back to your regularly scheduled blah-blah.
 
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manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
suckle at the teat of the American taxpayer

i suppose i'm self employed then? considering my paycheck comes from the same money pot of which i pay my city taxes. i paid fed taxes when i was in the military as well...so.....
but yeah, i've tried my hand at "producing" stuff, used to build high-end swimming pools. but then i realized that my talents are better suited to protecting the lives and property of others. although, i never did just quit my current job at the time to perfect my "art". i assumed that the responsible thing for me to do was to continue to provide for my family, continue my education, and pay taxes WHILE i worked....but then again, i guess that whole "work-ethic" thing doesn't apply anymore as long as uncle lib hands us what we need?

AGAIN...will someone please explain why our leaders are telling some people that they can quit working because they're "creative"?

you guys can bag on my career choice all you like, doesn't bother me, i'm used to it. but no one has offered a decent reason as to why it's ok for some to take a hiatus and not others? are we all not equally responsible for our own welfare? or, perhaps is that the main issue here..... whether the government is responsible for our welfare or the individual. i guess, at the core, i'm just pissed that we are becoming increasingly more dependent on the government to provide.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
14
Blindly running into cactus
have you ever tried to put together tours and still hang on to 'traditional employment'?

and get health insurance at the same time?

alex chilton recently died because of no health insurance. there are countless others.
well yes...but not on the grand scale of which you are referring. I used to promote shows/venues for hardcore bands when i lived in san diego. i know how strenuous it is for both the event promoters and the musicians. a few of the bands did well enough to tour and not have to hold down regular jobs but most of them still had to work, even after being signed to a decent label.
i don't mind the idea of basic universal healthcare for people who are WORKING toward a better life but i do have a problem with politicians telling people to quit working. you gotta pay your dues.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
I know a lot of musicians, and almost none of them were financially successful.

Some of them "failed" because of personality defects. Others had families and other obligations. Sometimes their music wasn't popular. Some of them were just bad musicians.

But I never thought they were lazy or worthless, or needed to get a "real job".

One thing about sitting in my cubicle at work with my office mates is that none of them have joie de vivre that my artist and musician friends have.

Do I want my friends and the musicians who are successful to give it all up to conform? No.

They live tough enough lives already but they deserve healthcare.
 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,549
2,222
In my pants
you guys can bag on my career choice all you like,
It's funny that you think that's what's happening.


Because it's certainly not. Literally no one is bagging on your career choice. See if you can figure out what they're actually bagging on.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
Of all the people I know, it's musicians who are the most ambitious, hard working and responsible. Truth.

When I was touring constantly, it was a 18 hour work day, every day. If I wasn't loading in, sound checking, playing, loading out or driving, I would get a few hours sleep a day. This would go on for weeks on end. Real musicians in real touring bands do this relentlessly. They pull in the patrons, give people something to do at night, feed the bars with cash, generate culture and night life in a city (which is a HUGE part of any city's economy). Are musicians important? Fvck yes they are, and most get paid almost nothing do do what they do.

I worked my ass off for years for little to no pay and I had no health insurance or any other benefits unless I was at home working for a few months at a time.

Now that I am more settled and don't tour heavily, I have a small business. I tried getting insurance for my family, I would be paying well over $1000 a month for crap coverage. So I hold down a 40 hour a week desk job, a 30-40 hour a week printing shop, try to be a good dad and a husband, AND I find time to rehearse, record, write music, etc. I'm in two bands right now.

Walk in my shoes for one fvcking week and you'd throw in the towel.

And you know what? I am typical of many hard working musicians in this country. Some dreadlocked dumbass with a bong has nothing to do with real musicians.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
you guys can bag on my career choice all you like, doesn't bother me, i'm used to it. but no one has offered a decent reason as to why it's ok for some to take a hiatus and not others? are we all not equally responsible for our own welfare? or, perhaps is that the main issue here..... whether the government is responsible for our welfare or the individual. i guess, at the core, i'm just pissed that we are becoming increasingly more dependent on the government to provide.
It's bad analogy time!

Think of a safety net. Now think of some douche bag taking a nap on it. Sooner or later someone will land on them boots first and they will realize you need to keep off the net if you aren't swinging on the trapeeze.

Once the system is in place and hard working creative people and entrepreneurs can pursue their passions without fear of bankruptcy from medical emergencies then the will pump more back into they economy then they take out. The loafers will get some free meds and check ups and the occasional appendectomy. Maybe the bong kid in the first post can go to the doctor for scabies medicine. It'll all work itself out I think. Have a beer dude.
 
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H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
^^Finally someone said it, " culture ". Quality of life can be measured in terms other than numbers.
It can be measured in numbers too. Example the union stage hands in most cities make a SH!T load of money from big concerts. So do all the other industries that support the creation and performance of music.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
do you homework silver. NC= no unions. no union connections here..just plain 'ole hard work and competition.
Really, no "professional assocations" either, I assume? You can be fired at will, for no cause? No pension, 401k only?

You should move and join a union...you're getting screwed.