clearly you're talking past everyone ....or everyone is talking past you...
you decide.
Pelosi sure knows musicians....
- Thread starter manimal
- Start date
you decide.
ya like how you always talk about how easy your job is to just ride a bike around all day long. I'll have to yank your chain on here now that you decided to block me off your facebook
pussy
I propose we put together a little social experiment. Manimal seems to have experience both as a police officer and a musician. We know he can make a living as a cop. Let's see if he can do so as a minstrel. I'll throw in a few bucks to support him if the minstrel thing doesn't work out so his family doesn't have to suffer. If enough people also donate a few bucks it sounds like a fair experiment to me.
I was arguing on the premise that economic contribution is fairly obvious. What seems to get often over looked is the way " creative types " enrich their communities culturally. Of course if musicians and artists didn't have time for their craft because they were too busy working their day job to buy health insurance, then people would start complaining about how boring life is.
The truth is that anyone who is serious about a life in the arts will let nothing stand in their way. And that means, unfortunately for many, they will not have health insurance. When younger emerging artists or future art students want to talk to me about a career in the arts, I ask them a very simple question. " Is this something you like to do and enjoy or is it something you have to do ? " Knowing the difference is key for surviving and flourishing in what lies ahead.
I got a better idea ( ok, maybe not better ), why don't I go on a ride along bike patrol through the hood with Manimal and he can come to the studio and deal with happy couples and make their wedding bands. Or sit in front of my computer and post on RM. ( don't judge my work ethic man )
Who exactly said "quit working"? "Quitting your job" and "quitting working" are two COMPLETELY different things. One is a 50+ hour/week job that you are locked in to just for the sole benefit of health care. Work is something that you do to pay the bills, including a part time job with flexible hours that can meet food and rent expenses while you start your own business, whether that's a music career *or* an entrepreneurial enterprise that may some day make you rich (in the purely capitalistic sense). You did catch the "entrepreneurial" aspect of Pelosi's statement, right?
This thread is dumb.
To the self-employed working 2 jobs solely for health insurance:
As a self employed/insured person ($1400/mo family of 4) who tried that route, my advice is devoting 100% of your efforts on your business and quitting the day job (assuming the new biz makes any money. if it doesn't then **** can it). You'll grow the biz and be able to afford health care faster when you're not working 120hrs a week.$0.02
To the self-employed working 2 jobs solely for health insurance:
As a self employed/insured person ($1400/mo family of 4) who tried that route, my advice is devoting 100% of your efforts on your business and quitting the day job (assuming the new biz makes any money. if it doesn't then **** can it). You'll grow the biz and be able to afford health care faster when you're not working 120hrs a week.$0.02
hey manimal, since you have such a disdain for musicians, turn your radio off and don't turn it on again. Ever. Throw all your cd's, records, mp3 players, etc in the garbage. Every time you hear someone singing just for fun, punch them in the face and tell them to get a job.
apparently no one is catching my point here. i have no disdain for musicians, (although i do get jealous at people who can pick up piano better in 1 month than i did in 7 years of lessons). if a few things were different for me as a late teen i'd probably be a music teacher right now. MY POINT IS THIS: WHY HAS PELOSI SINGLED OUT MUSICIANS AND "CREATIVE TYPES" AS BENEFICIARIES OF THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN. Shouldn't EVERYONE have the same opportunity to quit the "job" to "work" on their passion? yes, they should but, realistically, that will never happen because someone has to have a "job" and "work" to pay for said healthcare. you guys are demonizing me into some kind of art and culture hater because i jest about the fact that a lot of musicians are out of work in the first place and that the tone of the speech was one of, "just quit, and we'll take care of you." For the record, if i offended any musicians or artsy types, i'm sorry. my intent was to shed light on pelosi's bad choice of words and do a little stereotyping in jest.
i guess you enlightened types are the only ones who can stereotype to fortify a point?
..and for the record, the po-po bikes and equipment are paid for from seized drug money, ie..getting some good out of dollars earned from criminals who are NOT paying taxes at their "job".
and dhracer1067....i blocked you because you're a drug dealing douchebag who has a terrible reputation on this, and other websites, for scamming people in the classifieds. http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211205&highlight=dhracer1067 i just didn't feel it was prudent for a cop to have a well known pusher on my friends list trying to explain the merits of drug use in the comments section of my photos.
oh yea...and everyone i've met at the trails laughs when your name comes up and comments like, "what a dumbass" or "wasted idiot" seem to fly out of nowhere when people are talking about you. i think the last conversation i had that day at regency went something like this: "jason eaton...oh yeah, he's a good rider, but the dude is always wasted..or on probation for something drug related, probably selling shrooms this time."
grow a sack and save the tough kid comments for when we're face to face.
She specifically said "this is an entrepreneurial bill". Was she talking to a group of artists in the video? That might have had something to do with singling out artists specifically. There is no language in the bill that says ONLY artists and creative types are to benefit from it.
Stop being such a partisan whiner. N8 is back in case you haven't noticed.
Some people get to pursue their passions and some people have kids Manimal. We just have to deal.....and quit being such a grumpy old sod, there's not one society on earth that doesn't place a premium on nurturing creativity. In a formal educational setting arts and music are one of the first things we learn, ignoring that reality is just being obtuse.
but that's half the fun of arguing for the sake of arguing!
Thank you.
I agree that ohio addressed manimal's "point" in the first post. However, there does seem to be a recurrent theme in the next bunch of posts, about how some think that musicians don't add value to society, whatever that means. That's actually an interesting question.
One way to look at it is just on how much one is paid, assuming the market is a fair arbiter of value (a false assumption, I think!). Going with S.S.'s point, my brother-in-law is the principal flautist at the symphony in the 85th largest metro area in the US and makes all of $17k per year for his efforts.
Is this a fair way to judge one's occupation's "worth", however? Teachers would surely disagree
One way to look at it is just on how much one is paid, assuming the market is a fair arbiter of value (a false assumption, I think!). Going with S.S.'s point, my brother-in-law is the principal flautist at the symphony in the 85th largest metro area in the US and makes all of $17k per year for his efforts.
Is this a fair way to judge one's occupation's "worth", however? Teachers would surely disagree
so "lack of health ins" can now be a checkbox on a coroner's report?
"it's fun to be at the..."
so he can still listen to rap, then.
so can this also apply for any non-traditional job; specifically thinly sponsored DH racer? if you're not in teh top 5, you're making dick, right?
Shouldn't one take earnings potential into consideration when choosing a professional career? I understand why a burger flipper who cant afford birth control or childcare would be a bit depressed by their paycheck and lack of benefits. I'm not so sympathetic towards those who's educational advantages provide them with a wide variety of options - its not societies fault that they chose a low paying profession.
I'm sure he hears plenty of it while on duty riding through the pj's. I doubt he considers it a job perk
If my wife and I were to start a business (the capitalist, American dream), our health care costs would be ~35% of our ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD EXPENSES (mortgage, taxes, food, car insurance, internet, etc). That's a pretty big disincentive to starting your own business and working for yourself, wouldn't you think?
Yes. The market is, of course, infallible.
Dick Fuld earned every penny every penny he ever made, working like a slave, and you don't think he deserved to be royally compensated? What are you, some kind of communist?
You never answered my question, by the way.but that's half the fun of arguing for the sake of arguing!
NC is an at-will state? Can you be fired at will, for no specific reason, with no notice? If not, why not?
No one can explain that because it is NOT what our leaders are saying. It is the way you are choosing to interpret what they are saying because you have a presupposed idea of liberal values.
What she is saying is universal healthcare will give ALL Americans MORE freedom to pursue their dream JOBS (be it entrepreneur or musician) without fear of death from lack of healthcare. Not everyone will take her up on that offer because there is still a ton of risk and pain and most folks are risk averse. They don't get a free room and board. They don't get free clothes. They get to be free from the fear of surprise lifelong debt or death.
No one does this permanently because it is still a miserable existence. Folks put in a decade at most (usually much less) of pain and suffering and they either make it or don't. If they don't, they take the desk job. Not because it's their responsible civic duty, but because they need to live.
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That kind of thinking has given us two generations of unemployed engineers.
I'm currently running around looking for money for my business, talking to lots of outrageously wealthy folks. You know what college majors I typically see on their resumes? The Humanities. You know, that field that makes every grandfather groan that their grand-kid is unemployable. English Lit, History, Philosophy, Anthropology. A few Econ majors.
Learning how to be a thinker, gaining life experience, struggling and trying to pursue the things that you love and care about... all things that build good contributing members of society. Being "responsible" and learning how be nothing but a doer makes you replaceable by software or low-cost-country labor. And ironically needing the protection of a union or a lobby to keep your job.
have you found that upper class are rather aloof wrt timelines? the few anecdotes i have seem to suggest they have *no idea* the need to didi mau & strike when the iron's hot.
how upper class people can stay there w/ their under-appreciation for the supporting middle class is baffling.
You have to be good at what you do in order to succeed in a performance based economy. Those with proven skills will always get the best jobs.
The 2 most valuable lessons I've learned in life are very simple:
Adapt or die.
Not everyone is a winner.
Exactly - who doesn't appreciate a delicious, artfully prepared french fry?
a good visual explanation of the above comment:
more research on the arts may be in order: How the Internet Porn Business Works
Had to look up "di di mau." Honestly, I haven't found any of them unreasonable. Maybe the culture in SF gets it a little better than most. It's a little software biased, and there's ego to deal with, but generally people get my urgency, and if they have different priorities can at least understand the gap. I did have a call with some other wealth (Florida agency, representing old/oil money in TX, FL, and Saudi), and no, they don't get it.
Adapting, huh? That kind of takes some creativity, wouldn't you say? Or perhaps some experience in life where the path wasn't perfectly defined and you had to figure it out for yourself?
What are the chances that what you trained for at 19 is applicable to a job that is available 30 years later? I'd say zero.
war is a great industry for just this reason
so is the oldest profession, but who waits until they're 19? ok, maybe the occasional under grad student
How does this apply to musicians?
Is Justin Bieber a better musician than Toshi's brother because he makes way more money and has millions more fans?
Music and art are not evaluated by $$$ or statistics.
I stand by my statement that the training from your teens won't prepare you for what you have to do in your 50s.
I suspect things I learned when I was 19 like physics, chemistry, and mathematics will still be applicable for a few more years.
But then again.... what are the chances?