[jimmydean]

That's a whole lot of suck for a whole lot of people. I know a lot of people who volunteered to go to ANA so they could get a deployment over with in hopes to avoid Iraq.

With the decline of current headcount, I also fail to see how they are going to "grow" any active force when they fail to meet recruiting goals now. With the added pressure of unlimited deployments for Guard and Reserve, good luck!

Pentagon Abandons Active-Duty Time Limit

Jan 11, 5:34 PM (ET)

By ROBERT BURNS

WASHINGTON (AP) - For the first time since President Bush mobilized the National Guard and Reserve after the Sept. 11 attacks, the Pentagon is abandoning its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters Thursday that the change would have been made even if Bush had not ordered an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq, further straining the Army and Marine Corps.

The Pentagon also announced it is proposing to Congress that the size of the Army be increased by 65,000, to 547,000 and that the Marine Corps, the smallest of the services, grow by 27,000, to 202,000, over the next five years. No cost estimate was provided, but officials said it would be at least several billion dollars.

Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Pace said.

In other words, a citizen-soldier could be mobilized for a 24-month stretch in Iraq or Afghanistan, then demobilized and allowed to return to civilian life, only to be mobilized a second time for as much as an additional 24 months. In practice, Pace said, the Pentagon intends to limit all future mobilizations to 12 months.

Members of the Guard combat brigades that have served in Iraq in recent years spent 18 months on active duty - about six months in pre-deployment training in the United States, followed by about 12 months in Iraq. Under the old policy, they could not be sent back to Iraq because their cumulative time on active duty would exceed 24 months. Now that cumulative limit has been lifted, giving the Pentagon more flexibility.

The new approach, Pace said, is to squeeze the training, deployment and demobilization into a maximum of 12 months. He called that a "significant planning factor" for Guard and Reserve members and their families.

A senior U.S. military official who briefed reporters Thursday on Iraq-related developments said that by next January, the Pentagon "probably will be calling again" on National Guard combat brigades that previously served yearlong tours in Iraq. Under Pentagon ground rule, the official could not be further identified.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, appearing with Pace, announced several other changes in Guard and Reserve policy:

_Although the Pentagon's goal is to mobilize Guard and Reserve units no more frequently than one year out of six, the demands of wartime will require calling up some units more often than that. They provided no details on how many units would be remobilized at the faster pace or when that would begin to happen.

Army officials had been saying for some time that more frequent mobilizations were necessary because the active-duty force is being stretched too thin. Gates' announcement is the first confirmation of the change.

_Extra pay will be provided for Guard and Reserve troops who are required to mobilize more than once in six years; active-duty troops who get less than two years between overseas deployments also will get extra pay. Details were not provided.

_Military commanders will review their administration of a hardship waiver program "to ensure that they have properly taken into account exceptional circumstances facing military families of deployed service members."

As part of Bush's plan for boosting U.S. troop strength in Iraq, a brigade of National Guard soldiers from Minnesota will have its yearlong tour in Iraq extended by 125 days, to the end of July, and a Patriot missile battalion will be sent to the Persian Gulf next month, the Army said Thursday.

Maj. Randy Taylor, a spokesman for the 3rd Battalion, 43rd Air Defense Artillery Regiment, at Fort Bliss, Texas, said the Patriot unit was aware of the announced deployment. He said no formal order had been received Thursday.

The dispatching of a Patriot missile battery, capable of defending against shorter-range ballistic missile attacks, appeared linked to Bush's announcement Wednesday that he ordered an aircraft carrier strike group to the Middle East, which would be in easy reach of Iran, whose nuclear program is a U.S. concern.

Navy officials said the carrier heading to the Gulf region is the USS John C. Stennis, which previously had been in line to deploy to the Pacific. It was not clear Thursday how the Pentagon intended to compensate in the Pacific for the absence of the Stennis in that region, where a chief worry is North Korea.

The Marines announced that two infantry units - the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, and the 1st Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment - will stay in Iraq 60 to 90 days longer than scheduled. That will enable the Marines to have a total of eight infantry battalions in western Anbar province, instead of the current six, by February. Once the 60- to 90-day extension is over, an additional two battalions will be sent in early from their U.S. bases.

Also, the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, which combines infantry with a helicopter squadron and a logistics battalion, totaling about 2,200 Marines, will stay in Anbar for 45 more days.

Those extensions conform with Bush's announcement that he was ordering 4,000 more Marines to Anbar.

The military tries to avoid extending combat tours and sending forces earlier than planned because it disrupts the lives of troops and their families and makes it harder for the services to get all troops through the education and training programs they need for promotions. But in this case it was deemed unavoidable.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Wow. That is completely suck. Than the jesus I got out of there when I did.

 

[Echo]

So glad I got out of the military.

 

[JohnE]

7 years, 5 months left to retirement. I wonder what kind of BS I will put up with between now and then. If a 15 year deal comes up (And many are betting it will.) I may bite, depends on the $$. Stay tuned boys and girls...

 

[Changleen]

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters Thursday that the change would have been made even if Bush had not ordered an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq, further straining the Army and Marine Corps.

Uh huh. For real.

 

[Kihaji]

This is going to raise a hell of a crap in the House, the use of the NG already has since the start of Bush's terms.

For those of you that do not know, the National Guard is not a Federal military, it is actually run by each individual state, and the president actually is supposed to ask for permission to call those soldiers to active duty. This is why there was a lot of crap after Katrina, because the Lousiana NG was deployed to Iraq, when they should have been at home doing their real job, protecting and aiding its state.

 

[LordOpie]

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters Thursday that the change would have been made even if Bush had not ordered an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq, further straining the Army and Marine Corps.

Uh huh. For real.

sounds like you don't believe him?

Thing is, if he's telling the truth, then that means we were kind of short before, so now we're even more behind on manpower

 

[jimmydean]

This is going to raise a hell of a crap in the House, the use of the NG already has since the start of Bush's terms.

For those of you that do not know, the National Guard is not a Federal military, it is actually run by each individual state, and the president actually is supposed to ask for permission to call those soldiers to active duty. This is why there was a lot of crap after Katrina, because the Lousiana NG was deployed to Iraq, when they should have been at home doing their real job, protecting and aiding its state.

Don't I know it. I was one of the lucky bastards that got to go to New Orleans. Oh yeah, good times were had by all

 

[lovebunny]

Don't I know it. I was one of the lucky bastards that got to go to New Orleans. Oh yeah, good times were had by all

that wasnt his point

 

[Kihaji]

sounds like you don't believe him?

Thing is, if he's telling the truth, then that means we were kind of short before, so now we're even more behind on manpower

The military has been short since Clinton took office and decided to cut back while at the same time sending us on more missions than ever.

In my time in, outside of basic and ait, I spent 3 weeks not in combat, and this was at a time of peace.

 

[MMike]

In my time in, outside of basic and ait, I spent 3 weeks not in combat, and this was at a time of peace.

No wonder you're so screwed in the head.

 

[N8 v2.0]

i see there is nothing for the Air Force...


if i was wanting to enlist, that's where i'd go.

air conditioned barracks, cable TV, great dining facilities, mostly the officers who are exposed to combat...

 

[BurlyShirley]

i see there is nothing for the Air Force...


if i was wanting to enlist, that's where i'd go.

air conditioned barracks, cable TV, great dining facilities, mostly the officers who are exposed to combat...

That's because you're a big pvssy.

 

[N8 v2.0]

That's because you're a big pvssy.

you are what you eat, dick!

 

[MMike]

if i was wanting to enlist, that's where i'd go.

Like that would happen...

 

[$tinkle]

The military has been short since Clinton took office and decided to cut back while at the same time sending us on more missions than ever.

to take issue, lack of manpower wasn't the issue, rather the proper use. i can attest the AF is a giant welfare program w/ most people running around looking busy. perfect example is the project i was on was to implement a global application coded in Ada, and since this was "ground breaking", i was a de-facto "subject matter expert", which may hold weight in the real world, but is laughable in the AF. (btw, the app was scrapped & replaced by oracle forms & deployed in a 10th of the time by a few civilian contractors)

In my time in, outside of basic and ait, I spent 3 weeks not in combat, and this was at a time of peace.

i collected ribbons.

 

[MudGrrl]

i see there is nothing for the Air Force...


if i was wanting to enlist, that's where i'd go.

air conditioned barracks, cable TV, great dining facilities, mostly the officers who are exposed to combat...

yep... not like the Air Force troops are getting blown up.....



Elizabeth Jacobson

10/14/2005 - PATRICK AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. (AFPN) -- Many of you have probably heard of the death of Airman 1st Class Elizabeth Jacobson. She was the first female Airman to die in the line of fire duty supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the first Air Force security forces member to perish. She was only 21 years old.
Airman Jacobson died while providing convoy security near Camp Bucca, Iraq. An improvised explosive hit the vehicle in which she was riding Sept. 28. She was assigned to the 17th Security Forces Squadron at Goodfellow Air Force Base, Texas

It is a smaller percentage... and, I do agree.... I would join the Air Force if I had to right now.

 

[jimmydean]

that wasnt his point

My point was had the LA National Guard been home where they are supposed to be, I would not had to go to LA.

I joined the National Guard to do "old Guard" stuff. In Oregon, that wild fires, floods, riot gear, that type of stuff. My unit was never trained to be an offensive force and 3-6 months isn't enough time to learn what you need before going into combat.

 

[N8 v2.0]

yep... not like the Air Force troops are getting blown up.....



Elizabeth Jacobson




It is a smaller percentage... and, I do agree.... I would join the Air Force if I had to right now.

lost 3 more CE (EOD) troopers last weekend, not from here tho.

 

[jimmydean]

i see there is nothing for the Air Force...


if i was wanting to enlist, that's where i'd go.

air conditioned barracks, cable TV, great dining facilities, mostly the officers who are exposed to combat...

What about the Coast Guard? They are under "Homeland Security" now, so you KNOW they do nothing.

As if they could do a whole lot less than they did before. irate2: <-puddle pirate

 

[JohnE]

Yeah, the AF never goes anywhere or does anything. Sure...
And this is a perefct time for you N8, what with dont ask, dont tell as a policy and all.
(And I alway paid for my cable. Sheesh...)

 

[BurlyShirley]

Yeah, the AF never goes anywhere or does anything. Sure...
And this is a perefct time for you N8, what with dont ask, dont tell as a policy and all.
(And I alway paid for my cable. Sheesh...)

Well, I know that when I lived in a barracks with a bunch of AF guys, they actually got extra pay because it was "below their standard of living" whereas I, as a Marine, got nothing...so there's something to it all.

 

[JohnE]

Just remember that it is your tax $$ paying for our super high standard of living! Thanks guys!

 

[manimal]

i'm all for increasing the size of the military but THEY BETTER HAVE PROPER EQUIPMENT!!! i am so pissed off w/ the current admin, not because of the how or why that the war started but because the retards in the current admin can't seem to fathom why our troops would need body/vehicle armor so badly

 

[manimal]

Yeah, the AF never goes anywhere or does anything. Sure...
And this is a perefct time for you N8, what with dont ask, dont tell as a policy and all.
(And I alway paid for my cable. Sheesh...)

man, i remember sitting on a hill in kuwait, mixing the cherry-flavored drink powder from my MRE with a canteen of water, and watching a PEPSI truck pull into the AF camp about 5 clicks away. We could see the glow of tv's from our happy little tents irate2:

 

[Kihaji]

Yeah, the AF never goes anywhere or does anything.

Without first pouring concrete for their palace, err barraks.

The only Air Force people that knew about suck were combat controllers and pararescue. The rest are glorified office workers.

 

[JohnE]

Dont get carried away, PJs and CCts are whiny prima donnas...
Cops know the suck, as do others. And just because you walked into the wrong recruiting office, dont hate!
And I would be willing to bet I have more time in a GP or two man shelter than you have in service...

 

[Changleen]

to take issue, lack of manpower wasn't the issue, rather the proper use. i can attest the AF is a giant welfare program w/ most people running around looking busy.

I don't really know much about the details of what you spend so much money on, but:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_dol_fig-military-expenditures-dollar-figure

Military Expenditure:

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 United States: $276,700,000,000.00
#2 China: $55,910,000,000.00
#3 France: $46,500,000,000.00
#4 Japan: $39,520,000,000.00
#5 Germany: $38,800,000,000.00
#6 United Kingdom: $31,700,000,000.00
#7 Italy: $20,200,000,000.00
#8 Saudi Arabia: $18,300,000,000.00
#9 Brazil: $13,408,000,000.00
#10 Korea, South: $13,094,300,000.00
#11 India: $11,520,000,000.00
#12 Australia: $11,390,000,000.00
#13 Iran: $9,700,000,000.00
#14 Israel: $8,970,000,000.00
#15 Spain: $8,600,000,000.00
#16 Turkey: $8,100,000,000.00
#17 Canada: $7,861,000,000.00
#18 Taiwan: $7,574,000,000.00
#19 Netherlands: $6,500,000,000.00
#20 Greece: $6,120,000,000.00
#21 Korea, North: $5,217,400,000.00
#22 Singapore: $4,470,000,000.00
#23 Sweden: $4,395,000,000.00
#24 Argentina: $4,300,000,000.00
#25 Egypt: $4,040,000,000.00
#26 Mexico: $4,000,000,000.00
#27 Poland: $3,500,000,000.00
#28 Colombia: $3,300,000,000.00
#29 Norway: $3,113,000,000.00
#30 Belgium: $3,077,000,000.00
#31 Pakistan: $2,964,000,000.00
#32 Switzerland: $2,548,000,000.00
#33 Chile: $2,500,000,000.00
#34 Denmark: $2,470,000,000.00
#35 Oman: $2,424,000,000.00
#36 Kuwait: $1,967,300,000.00
#37 Algeria: $1,870,000,000.00
#38 Finland: $1,800,000,000.00
#39 Thailand: $1,775,000,000.00
#40 South Africa: $1,746,000,000.00
#41 Malaysia: $1,690,000,000.00
#42 United Arab Emirates: $1,600,000,000.00
#43 Austria: $1,497,000,000.00
#44 Morocco: $1,400,000,000.00
#45 Iraq: $1,300,000,000.00

Seriously, what are you doing with all that Cash?

 

[LordOpie]

Seriously, what are you doing with all that Cash?

Owning the planet.

 

[Changleen]

Owning the planet.

You can't even own Iraq.

 

[LordOpie]

You can't even own Iraq.

Which is sad considering their #45

 

[Silver]

Owning the planet.

No kidding. How else do you think 300 million people get to piss all over 6 billion others without getting lynched?

 

[Kihaji]

Seriously, what are you doing with all that Cash?

We clean up Europe's messes, because they don't want to.
We clean up Africa's messes, because they can't.
We clean up Asia's messes, because they don't want to.
We clean up NATO's messes, because they can't.
We clean up the UN's messes, because they are absolutely worthless.
And we start a mess or two of our own, because we can.

 

[LordOpie]

We clean what?


hahahahaahaha, you're dumb.

 

[rapp]

Well, I know that when I lived in a barracks with a bunch of AF guys, they actually got extra pay because it was "below their standard of living" whereas I, as a Marine, got nothing...so there's something to it all.

The AF guys I went to MOS school with got that, and could have cars with them too. We were stuck walking or taking cabs to go out in town. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[JohnE]

Again, jealousy is an ugly thing! Dont hate, because you made the wrong choice at the recruiting office!

 

[jimmydean]

I tried to join the AF before the Navy, but I only had a GED at the time. I scored a 92 on the Asvab, but they couldn't waive the lack of diploma.

The Navy was the next best thing as far as active duty.

 

[Kihaji]

Dont get carried away, PJs and CCts are whiny prima donnas...
Cops know the suck, as do others. And just because you walked into the wrong recruiting office, dont hate!
And I would be willing to bet I have more time in a GP or two man shelter than you have in service...

Yeah, I'm sure the SP's know what the suck is, I mean those cute little scarves they wear are terribly chafing.

And every MOS has their prima donnas, it's just the PJ's CCT's, and you can throw in TACP's have a reason, they work with the Army.

(Also, if you can't tell, I'm just joking with you. Army, Navy, Air Force, it doesn't matter. As long as you aren't a human sandbag, err Marine.)

 

[JohnE]

Hey, do you know how hard it is to keep a proper crease in the ascot? And the skin lotion to prevent the chafing? Man, the horrors...
(AND...AF Cop in Playboy next month...)

 

[JohnE]

I tried to join the AF before the Navy, but I only had a GED at the time. I scored a 92 on the Asvab, but they couldn't waive the lack of diploma.

The Navy was the next best thing as far as active duty.

Thats the crappiest policy we ever had. Do you know how many people we lost to other services because of it? (I dont, but it is a sh*tload...)