[X3pilot]

It's a double celebration and a civil rights milestone: President Barack Obama tonight helps the NAACP celebrate its 100th anniversary, and the civil rights group celebrates the first African-American president of the United States.

Is this organization really needed anymore? Are they even relevant? The race issue has been prominent this week from the wise Latina to Sen. Boxxer to this.

At what point do organizations like these designed to help advance the cause of minorities become a detractor from equality issues?

And wouldn't you think blacks would be tired of and offended by the Colored People and the Negro reference in United Negro College Fund?

And as for advancing colored people, I didn't see one Indian there.

 

[sanjuro]

Is this organization really needed anymore? Are they even relevant? The race issue has been prominent this week from the wise Latina to Sen. Boxxer to this.

At what point do organizations like these designed to help advance the cause of minorities become a detractor from equality issues?

And wouldn't you think blacks would be tired of and offended by the Colored People and the Negro reference in United Negro College Fund?

And as for advancing colored people, I didn't see one Indian there.

First of all, there is still a wide discrepancy between whites and blacks in terms of income, education level, and incarceration. Why this is still the case should be discussed by everyone, but not to acknowledge this fact is foolish.

I find that my most frustrating discussions about race are with people who assume that everyone is on an equal playing level, and we are certainly not.

As for whether blacks are offended by historic names of NAACP or UNCF, instead of asking the almost entirely non-African American mountain bike community, why don't you ask some black people?

Drive down to Tilghman in Allentown for lunch, and bust out your questions and comments about race.

Because let me guess: you never been to any black neighborhood before.

 

[dan-o]

IIRC, X3's part cherokee or some other vermin.
Last time I checked, dying from small-pox was less desirable than building railroads so he wins round one of "OMG, I'm a victim".

 

[Silver]

I hope you're not claiming racism is gone...because I can show you Republican senators who are so casually racist that they don't actually realize it.

Paging Mr. Sessions to the courtesy phone...actually wait, bad example. He's a racist and proud of it.

 

[X3pilot]

First of all, there is still a wide discrepancy between whites and blacks in terms of income, education level, and incarceration. Why this is still the case should be discussed by everyone, but not to acknowledge this fact is foolish.

I find that my most frustrating discussions about race are with people who assume that everyone is on an equal playing level, and we are certainly not.

As for whether blacks are offended by historic names of NAACP or UNCF, instead of asking the almost entirely non-African American mountain bike community, why don't you ask some black people?

Drive down to Tilghman in Allentown for lunch, and bust out your questions and comments about race.

Because let me guess: you never been to any black neighborhood before.

So, let me understand this correctly, you're assuming I'm white and therefore have no right discussing race or asking any questions at all, right?

Seriously, I have had this discussion with many people, I lived in New Orleans for some time, so yeah, I know what it feels like to be the minority race per capita. I could give you the standard Democrat Liberal line like "Why, Sugar, some of my best friends are black." line, but I'll spare you. BTW, white Democrats are the biggest racist in the world, but another topic.

I never once said in my post that I thought, feel, assume, or pretend to think that there is any sort of equality among races. There are many people of all races with disadvantages and advantages. I simply ponder why it is that if minority groups truly want equality, why do we need a Congressional Black Caucus, Association of Black Engineers (race matters to a CAD program?) etc, etc.

Oh, and Tilghman is actually quite nice and the sections you are thinking of would render my question moot, since I don't speak Spanish.

You're thinking of 7th and Chew.

 

[X3pilot]

I hope you're not claiming racism is gone...because I can show you Republican senators who are so casually racist that they don't actually realize it.

Paging Mr. Sessions to the courtesy phone...actually wait, bad example. He's a racist and proud of it.

Nope, and bring Sen. Boxxer to the phone with him.

 

[ohio]

I lived in New Orleans for some time, so yeah, I know what it feels like to be the minority race per capita.

I can only imagine how hard that must have been.

 

[sanjuro]

So, let me understand this correctly, you're assuming I'm white and therefore have no right discussing race or asking any questions at all, right?

Seriously, I have had this discussion with many people, I lived in New Orleans for some time, so yeah, I know what it feels like to be the minority race per capita. I could give you the standard Democrat Liberal line like "Why, Sugar, some of my best friends are black." line, but I'll spare you. BTW, white Democrats are the biggest racist in the world, but another topic.

I never once said in my post that I thought, feel, assume, or pretend to think that there is any sort of equality among races. There are many people of all races with disadvantages and advantages. I simply ponder why it is that if minority groups truly want equality, why do we need a Congressional Black Caucus, Association of Black Engineers (race matters to a CAD program?) etc, etc.

Oh, and Tilghman is actually quite nice and the sections you are thinking of would render my question moot, since I don't speak Spanish.

You're thinking of 7th and Chew.

New Orleans is a place where I met the most openly racist people in America, but I usually didn't have a problem with that. Why? Because the bad neighborhood wasn't in the other part of town, but on the block over. There was no insulation, and I respected that.

The reason why there are still Black professional organizations is that there are still experiences which blacks go through (I almost wrote suffer) which whites do not. If nothing at all, at least they can commiserate together socially.

There are a handful of black congresspeople and probably less than 5% black engineers. If this was representative of our population, it would be 13% black.

Seriously, though. No one with a lot of black friends would dare to ask that kind of question.

 

[sanjuro]

I can only imagine how hard that must have been.

Being a Chinese guy in a white, black, and mulatto environment, you have no idea.

P.S. Being in the white minority means you go to bars that mostly white people go to, like F & M, Molly's, R Bar, The Boot, Saturn, Buddha Belly, Fat Harrys....

 

[X3pilot]

I was being sarcastic about the "have a lot of black friends" remark. All my black friends are mainly from being in the Navy and serving alongside them and becoming friends with them and their families.


Doesn't matter what I think because everyone else automatically jumps on the "white cracker dudes can't ask questions or question anything about another race." because every other race assumes that all white people are born into the lap of success. Doesn't always happen that way. More often than with any other race group for sure but just asking the question and being white gets you labeled some kind of racist.

That attitude alone will mean that we will never, ever have a serious discussion amongst ourselves as people about race. Any other race other than white (which if there are any true, strictly caucasians in the country, I'd be surprised) automatically bristles with an attitude when you try to ask questions, but then bitch that no one wants to understand their culture and issues.

fwiw, btw, I'm partially indian, Cherokee, and have always said that if someone really wants to understand how a culture and race can be pissed on, just ask anyone living on a reservation.

 

[ohio]

Doesn't matter what I think because everyone else automatically jumps on the "white cracker dudes can't ask questions or question anything about another race."

Nobody "automatically" jumped on you. We rationally jumped on you because you immediately demonstrated a blatant bias and lack of understanding.

There has absolutely been progress towards racial equality, and that should be celebrated and repeated. There have also been many recent setbacks. One black president doesn't erase all of the challenges millions of people face because of their race or ethnicity or socio-economic status. You dismissed that reality in your first sentence. What did you expect?

 

[stinkyboy]

I saw some commercial the other day where some black guy was supporting the advancement of his race. Fine, whatever you want to do. I forget the organization.

If a white guy on TV speaks those words, all hell breaks loose...

 

[sanjuro]

I was being sarcastic about the "have a lot of black friends" remark. All my black friends are mainly from being in the Navy and serving alongside them and becoming friends with them and their families.


Doesn't matter what I think because everyone else automatically jumps on the "white cracker dudes can't ask questions or question anything about another race." because every other race assumes that all white people are born into the lap of success. Doesn't always happen that way. More often than with any other race group for sure but just asking the question and being white gets you labeled some kind of racist.

That attitude alone will mean that we will never, ever have a serious discussion amongst ourselves as people about race. Any other race other than white (which if there are any true, strictly caucasians in the country, I'd be surprised) automatically bristles with an attitude when you try to ask questions, but then bitch that no one wants to understand their culture and issues.

fwiw, btw, I'm partially indian, Cherokee, and have always said that if someone really wants to understand how a culture and race can be pissed on, just ask anyone living on a reservation.

I'm not bothered by discussing race with anyone of any color (I'm discussing it right now), but your initial post did not say why you felt that black organizations are obsolete, but you questioned their need by hinting that they were racist by discriminating against whites.

The way I read when a white person talks about equality without a very specific instance is someone who doesn't deal with minorities very much.

There is a line from Chris Rock about how he says a white person wouldn't want to walk in his shoes, and he says "And I'm rich!"

But there are specific instances where whites are discriminated against, specifically the New Haven firefighter case, which is relevant to racial equality. My opinion is that for leadership positions for experienced candidates who have worked in the same environment, then race and affirmative action should play no part in it.

The only place I think AA should take place is entry level positions or educational opportunities, where minorities should get a chance to prove themselves, but then should be on equal footing with everyone else.

 

[ohio]

I saw some commercial the other day where some black guy was supporting the advancement of his race. Fine, whatever you want to do. I forget the organization.

If a white guy on TV speaks those words, all hell breaks loose...

Because advancement with the goal of equality is the implicit statement. It is by definition impossible for that to be the implicit statement when white folks talk about advancement of their race. Unless they mean actually bringing themselves down. Which isn't advancement.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp. I don't get why white people are trying so hard to find ways to become victims. You really want to be a victim, but are stuck in that damn white skin? Turn gay.

 

[stinkyboy]

This isn't a hard concept to grasp. I don't get why white people are trying so hard to find ways to become victims. You really want to be a victim, but are stuck in that damn white skin? Turn gay.

So gay is a choice?

I'm saying that some people are fans of keeping the white race white, but if they mention it they get persecuted for being racist. Being proud to be white is not something white people are allowed, so it's masked with being proud to be Irish, English, etc.

Everyone else can be proud of their race.

 

[sanjuro]

So gay is a choice?

I'm saying that some people are fans of keeping the white race white, but if they mention it they get persecuted for being racist. Being proud to be white is not something white people are allowed, so it's masked with being proud to be Irish, English, etc.

Everyone else can be proud of their race.

African-Americans might be proud of their race, but in reality, they have nothing in common except skin color.

Sold into slavery removed their previous identity.

I'm a Chinese American and if you are Irish/French/Italian/German/etc, you know your origin. Even Latinos are broken down to PR/Mexico/Honduras, etc.

 

[Silver]

So gay is a choice?

I'm saying that some people are fans of keeping the white race white, but if they mention it they get persecuted for being racist. Being proud to be white is not something white people are allowed, so it's masked with being proud to be Irish, English, etc.

Everyone else can be proud of their race.

Being proud to be white in America is like being proud of being a Nazi in Germany circa 1938.

 

[stinkyboy]

Even Latinos are broken down to PR/Mexico/Honduras, etc.

Yet Paisas (Mexico born Mexicans) hate Chicanos (American born Mexicans) and Paisas especially hate white people yet want nothing more than to live in America.

Being proud to be white in America is like being proud of being a Nazi in Germany circa 1938.

That's the stupidest line ever posted on RM. Congrats!

 

[Silver]

That's the stupidest line ever posted on RM. Congrats!

That's either hyperbole from you (I can cite a million* posts from RR, TheMontashu, etc.) or you're as dumb as your e-personality makes you seem. Shall I post what I was saying at a fourth grade level so that you don't need to read between the lines to get at the actual meaning?

*See, that's hyperbole at work. I can't actually cite a MILLION posts. The actual number is somewhat less, although still quite numerous.

 

[kidwoo]

I can only imagine how hard that must have been.

You ever been a white dude in new orleans?


Fvcking


Gnarly




Even as an adult, I had to run from other adults while being told "we gonna get yo motha ****in wallet whitey"

It was pretty rad. Once I got back to tahoe we beat up both the token black people that lived here though............just to even things out.


Either way though x3 is a whiner.

 

[kidwoo]

I'm saying that some people are fans of keeping the white race white, but if they mention it they get persecuted for being racist.

That's because 99.99999% of the shaved head dumbfvcks actually saying this just want to kill niggers.


Seriously. You have to doubt the sanity or intelligence of anyone not wanting to mix it up with this.

 

[stinkyboy]

That's because 99.99999% of the shaved head dumbfvcks actually saying this just want to kill niggers.

Quoted for fail.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Stink, X3... I've tried to have this conversation before.

Basically to these guys, being born white is a shameful act in and of itself, whether or not your ancestors in particular ever subjugated anyone. By virtue of the color of your skin, you are to bear responsibility for all of society's ills. To question this = racist.

Also Jewish =/= white. They're excluded for some reason I've yet to identify.

And being poor and white = "white trash/redneck" but being poor of any other race = "underprivileged".

So no, "white guilt" isn't just the republican talking point I always thought it was.

 

[sanjuro]

Stink, X3... I've tried to have this conversation before.

Basically to these guys, being born white is a shameful act in and of itself, whether or not your ancestors in particular ever subjugated anyone. By virtue of the color of your skin, you are to bear responsibility for all of society's ills. To question this = racist.

Also Jewish =/= white. They're excluded for some reason I've yet to identify.

And being poor and white = "white trash/redneck" but being poor of any other race = "underprivileged".

So no, "white guilt" isn't just the republican talking point I always thought it was.

I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning racial politics. Just what's the point of talking about blacks with other white people?

 

[BurlyShirley]

I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning racial politics. Just what's the point of talking about blacks with other white people?

So now it's to the point you cant even talk about it amongst the varied backgrounds here on RM?

We seem to do just fine in talking about other groups in absentia. Im not aware of any openly gay, Al Queda, Palestinian, Wall Street CEO, tazer victim or death row inmate members here on RM.

 

[BurlyShirley]

There are a handful of black congresspeople and probably less than 5% black engineers. If this was representative of our population, it would be 13% black.

...so the ultimate manifestation of "equality" will be that each career choice, income bracket, level of government, and even social club or group reflects a proportionally racially diverse microcosm of society?

Has it ever occurred to you that such a thing is completely unattainable for a vast variety of reasons? And how do you reconcile something like that with your own heritage? Do you think we should start to phase out Asians and Indians from medical and engineering schools if enough whites aren't being admitted to the point that they're not being represented, within those career fields, in proportion to their overall make up of society?

I would think it obvious that cultural upbringing, as evidenced by the high level of asian success in this country, is far more important in determining a person's career choice and ultimately, overall success, than what race they happened to be born into.

So at what point are you simply beating down a particular group's culture, in order to have them assimilate into a white-designed and driven society? That's not "equality" it's cultural tyranny. Homogenization. Doesn't it destroy the so called "diversity" ?

 

[stinkyboy]

So now it's to the point you cant even talk about it amongst the varied backgrounds here on RM?

Now it's the "B" word...

We seem to do just fine in talking about other groups in absentia. Im not aware of any openly gay, Al Queda, Palestinian, Wall Street CEO, tazer victim or death row inmate members here on RM.

I got tazed once in a bar.

 

[ohio]

Basically to these guys, being born white is a shameful act in and of itself, whether or not your ancestors in particular ever subjugated anyone. By virtue of the color of your skin, you are to bear responsibility for all of society's ills. To question this = racist.

Nope. There are a dozen different ways the topic could have been raised that wouldn't have gotten X3 labeled a racist. But playing the victim when you're not is only going to get you laughed at.

Also Jewish =/= white. They're excluded for some reason I've yet to identify.

Please, Jews get plenty. Did you miss all the Israel threads?

And being poor and white = "white trash/redneck" but being poor of any other race = "underprivileged".

I specifically remember Silver agreeing with you that affirmative action should be socio-economic, not racial. That was your exchange. Did you forget?

So no, "white guilt" isn't just the republican talking point I always thought it was.

Not being a fan of white pride =/= white guilt.

 

[valve bouncer]

It ain't easy bein' white, stuck in the gated community, the security-man keeping you down. And you know cheeseburgers were deliberately introduced into the white community as a plot to destroy us.

 

[kidwoo]

Quoted for fail.

At least speak english. You and I both predate interweb speak as some form of legitimate communication.

It ain't easy bein' white, stuck in the gated community, the security-man keeping you down. And you know cheeseburgers were deliberately introduced into the white community as a plot to destroy us.

Word

Wait that's not it. I mean *fist bump*

Wait that's not it either.

Hey anybody know any gestures invented by white people? Besides genocidal ones I mean.

 

[stinkyboy]

At least speak english. You and I both predate interweb speak as some form of legitimate communication.

Really?

 

[kidwoo]

Often times an example of the dialog one wishes to lambast is used in the actual statement being made about it.

True story.


You gonna say something or just fling tweets?



Honestly though. Who SANE do you know takes the preservation of the white race as some sort of serious cause? People with feet on the ground of any race really don't seem to give two ****s who falls in love and reproduces with one another in my experience.

 

[stevew]

Hey anybody know any gestures invented by white people? Besides genocidal ones I mean.

Sieg heil?

forearm bump?

awkward man hug?

 

[sanjuro]

...so the ultimate manifestation of "equality" will be that each career choice, income bracket, level of government, and even social club or group reflects a proportionally racially diverse microcosm of society?

Has it ever occurred to you that such a thing is completely unattainable for a vast variety of reasons? And how do you reconcile something like that with your own heritage? Do you think we should start to phase out Asians and Indians from medical and engineering schools if enough whites aren't being admitted to the point that they're not being represented, within those career fields, in proportion to their overall make up of society?

I would think it obvious that cultural upbringing, as evidenced by the high level of asian success in this country, is far more important in determining a person's career choice and ultimately, overall success, than what race they happened to be born into.

So at what point are you simply beating down a particular group's culture, in order to have them assimilate into a white-designed and driven society? That's not "equality" it's cultural tyranny. Homogenization. Doesn't it destroy the so called "diversity" ?

I'm never said anything about equality or diversity except that affirmative action is necessary but should applied in a more limited fashion.

Mostly, I find that racial discussions about other races tend to be out of ignorance. I usually respond by clarifying exactly what the other person's background is.

FYI, this is how it started. When I was in college, we were having a racial discussion, and I repeated an observation made by my friend from my old neighborhood in the Bronx, verbatim. It was a pointed statement with racist language which I agreed with then and still now, and my college friends, who are very liberal, objected.

I struggled defending my friend because he did use very racist language but in a way which I considered descriptive but not offensive, until I realized something about my friends: I asked them what was the racial makeup of their towns. All of them grew up in areas which were 95% white.

While my friend might have been racist in their eyes, we grew up in an area which is economically lower and middle class with a wide mix of blacks, Latinos, Italians, and Irish.