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Pictures of old and obscure suspension bikes

Feb 19, 2018
4
3
Calgary, AB, Canada
So monks will like it?
There's nothing more dangerous than a monk who's been been been thrown over the front by excessive brake dive!

Seriously, though, we're pretty fond of our bike and here's why we think it may finally be the one to realize the potential of a front linkage:

There are six primary performance benefits to Structure's WTF (Without Telescoping Fork ;)) suspension design, which also highlight some of the things we're doing differently from past designs. When compressed in heave (equal front and rear suspension compression), relative to a traditional, telescoping fork (and previous bicycle linkage front suspension, where noted):
  1. Stability on Demand, the combination of the following two properties:
    1. The head angle becomes slacker as the suspension compresses, maximizing handling agility in less demanding situations, such as riding uphill, and increasing stability in demanding situations. No other production bicycle suspension has done this (certainly not to any significant extent).
    2. The trail increases as the suspension compresses, again maximizing handling agility in less demanding situations, such as riding uphill, and increasing stability in demanding situations.
  2. Brake dive is reduced, minimizing load transfer, improving chassis stability, and retaining positive suspension travel when braking. The balance between anti-dive and compliance has taken a large portion of our R&D time and we offer four settings to allow riders to dial it in to their liking.
  3. The motion ratio and motion ratio curves of the front and rear suspension are matched for optimal suspension balance and increased predictability of the chassis for the rider. No other suspension system has done this.
  4. Optimized pivots:
    1. Linkage elements rotate on ball bearings, rather than sliding bushings, which reduces friction in the system and improves suspension compliance, particularly on small impacts.
    2. The WTF design does not use spherical bearings in the structural elements of the suspension, only in the steering links. Spherical bearings have been a weak point of some previous front linkage designs.
  5. The linkage elements are integrated into the chassis, rather than being a stand-alone component that mounts to the head tube in the traditional manner. This allows the linkage arms to be longer, reduces the length of highly stressed chassis elements, and distributes loads more evenly throughout the chassis.
  6. The linkage control arms, when taken together, are the longest ever used in a production bicycle application. Longer arms permit more consistent chassis dynamics throughout the range of suspension travel by reducing the change in instant centre location and motion ratio.
Four other important differences between Structure's design and that of other bikes:
  1. SSK (Size-Specific Kinematics): Each chassis size features a unique location of each pivot to ensure the suspension dynamics remain consistent for all rider and chassis sizes.
  2. Gravity Sizing: Customizable seat tube lengths to allow riders of various heights to choose a chassis size based on desired handling characteristics, rather than rider leg length.
  3. Wide Range Geometry: Bikes without variable seat tube length are forced to offer an excessive number of frame sizes with little difference between each size. By separating seat tube length from chassis length, Structure can offer meaningful differences in handling properties between each size and span a range of rider agility vs. stability preferences.
  4. The modular nature of the front-end components (steering links, upper crown, lower headstock) facilitate custom parts for geometry and handing modifications if demand arises.
If you have further questions, I'll try to monitor this thread (if anyone is still reading it), but the best way to reach me is at Ryan at Structure dot bike.

Thanks to everyone here for taking an interest in unconventional designs!


-Ryan
 
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Feb 19, 2018
4
3
Calgary, AB, Canada
Stability on demand. :think:
Giving it a name facilitates discussion. Call it whatever you like, but the concept is worth discussing: in pitch (front end compression only), a telescoping fork can steepen by over 8°, lose most of its trail, and shorten the front-centre up to two frame sizes' worth. That's the opposite of what should happen when your weight is already being pitched forward!

We designed our front end to, in the same situation (pitch compression), maintain its head angle, trail, and length - and it's less prone to dive in the first place due to the braking anti-dive property.

A linkage design gives us the freedom to manipulate these variables however we want. Some past designs have chosen to maximize compliance by aligning the axle path with an assumed bump force vector in a "J-hook" axle path; this does make for a super plush ride, but it also causes the front wheel to tuck under even worse than with a telescoping fork. The use of bearings, rather than sliding bushings, already makes such a huge difference that the J-hook design creates a far bigger problem than it solves.

At least one past design went for 100% anti-dive, which produced a sharply forward axle path; it certainly did resist dive, but the compliance was ... well, there's a reason it's not still on the market.

Unsurprisingly, the ideal balance is somewhere between these extremes. The adjustment range on our linkage spans a wide spectrum of compliance, always maintains a healthy amount of braking anti-dive, and always enhances stability as the suspension is compressed. We feel this is the way suspension should be, but it's something you simply can't do with a fork that's constrained to moving in a straight line.
 

DJF

Chimp
Mar 16, 2018
8
4
Ok obscure... just out of the rafters, who would of thought 2000 would be so long ago.
In 2000 I was riding in KS on flint hills and river drop offs and this was mine. I can't find a single pic online to tell me what it is. I remember I had to buy it directly from the manufacturer as it was a "team" bike new, but I don't remember who's, I even remember getting a sweet deal as it wasn't out in stores at the time so there was no MSRP, so they just agreed on a price and shipping.
It has a Norco / Saracen style frame from that time period but the rear swing arm is completely different. I changed the forks to Hanebrinks 8" LT and brakes to Mangura to fit the forks, a couple other small addons like MRP but the rest is how it arrived. The rear swing arm is factory and as delivered to be clear, just crud painted after tearing up the finish in gravel and mud. That is the hiccup as I cant find a single bike made with this swing arm and you would think it would be the item to help id it, but alas no others found.
Yeah I could strip the frame of the decals but so much of my adolescent college history and I fear what is under would just be ruined as well.
If you can help me ID what this was really sold as please let me know, I would like to know what this POS is that I had so much fun tearing up.
my dh mountain bike 1.jpg
my dh mountain bike 2 swingarm rt.jpg
my dh mountain bike 4 swingarm top.jpg
my dh mountain bike 3 frame left.jpg
 
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DJF

Chimp
Mar 16, 2018
8
4
/threadover

Thats it. That has won the thread
Thanks, it is a beat down beast and absolutely nothing stops it. It has the swing arm joint sealed so river crossings and water after a 15 meter vertical are fun.

Not pretty, but a piece of real life not some prissy show bike.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,007
730
The rear looks like a SC Super 8 or a Mountain Cycles San Andreas. The front looks like a Norco cause of the way its rounded on the downtube. Made in china of others parts? Lol!
 
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DJF

Chimp
Mar 16, 2018
8
4
The rear end is very orange.
The only clue I have, from staying with my college sweetheart who rode with me is she said it was a "Monster" brand or model I had seen in a mag and traced the builder and got one. I can't find anything about any Monster DH but I do remember the article now.

I did not add or change the swing arm and as you can see it is pivoting inside the body not on a welded mount.
It never had any other mounts that were for some other rear suspension it was built/ designed for this rear from the beginning and the rear is over kill I will tell you that. It has NO side movement and tracks unbelievably on tech courses.

It had come with 8" boxxers up front that I scrapped and lx/xts gear set if that helps ID it. I remember the picture from way back showed it with disc in the back on that strange little mount but when I got it, it didn't have disc in the back and I found nothing in this world to fit that mount.

Yes it is ORANGE I was also in the military and safety orange was a requirement to ride on base, flag on the back and such, and orange belt on the rider. I actually got them to let me ride without a flag after shooting it with some safety orange paint, but still had to wear the sash, lol. It doesnt hurt it is my favorite color.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,007
730
Yes it is ORANGE I was also in the military and safety orange was a requirement to ride on base, flag on the back and such, and orange belt on the rider. I actually got them to let me ride without a flag after shooting it with some safety orange paint, but still had to wear the sash, lol. It doesnt hurt it is my favorite color.
LOL! Hahahaha!

p3pb2578614.jpg
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
That's a Kinesis-built frame. It's a mashup between what was known as a Vairo Durango down here and a single pivot/high stays rear end:



EDIT: The rear dropouts of your frame seem to ring a bell for me, but I can't recall the brand...
which was kind of an M1 knock-off
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
DH bike with a triple crankset?
In the "olden days", that's all there was. There WEREN'T any DH bikes, you had to make one and all cranks were triple. My FIRST DH bike was also my xc race bike...'92-93.

Later, a 55 tooth Kamakazi ring went on there with the mandatory mrp chain guide clamped under the bb shell. I even put wheels and brakes on it.
 

DJF

Chimp
Mar 16, 2018
8
4
Ok obscure... just out of the rafters, who would of thought 2000 would be so long ago.
In 2000 I was riding in KS on flint hills and river drop offs and this was mine. I can't find a single pic online to tell me what it is. I remember I had to buy it directly from the manufacturer as it was a "team" bike new, but I don't remember who's, I even remember getting a sweet deal as it wasn't out in stores at the time so there was no MSRP, so they just agreed on a price and shipping.
It has a Norco / Saracen style frame from that time period but the rear swing arm is completely different. I changed the forks to Hanebrinks 8" LT and brakes to Mangura to fit the forks, a couple other small addons like MRP but the rest is how it arrived. The rear swing arm is factory and as delivered to be clear, just crud painted after tearing up the finish in gravel and mud. That is the hiccup as I cant find a single bike made with this swing arm and you would think it would be the item to help id it, but alas no others found.
Yeah I could strip the frame of the decals but so much of my adolescent college history and I fear what is under would just be ruined as well.
If you can help me ID what this was really sold as please let me know, I would like to know what this POS is that I had so much fun tearing up.
View attachment 128181 View attachment 128182 View attachment 128183 View attachment 128184
looks a lot like a GSR Hooligan mated with SC Super 8 swingarm...
looks a lot like a GSR Hooligan mated with SC Super 8 swingarm...
Matching the body is kinda easy since at least 5 companies were using it, All of them are 4-link suspension or a hard tail BUT find the one piece beast swing arm on this one and then were know the correct company... That is what I am hoping to do.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,794
5,708
UK
In the "olden days", that's all there was. There WEREN'T any DH bikes, you had to make one and all cranks were triple. My FIRST DH bike was also my xc race bike...'92-93.
Me too. A Muddy Fox Alu XC hardtail with rigid fork and a riser bar. It had a suspension fork fitted in 94 and went single* ring in '95 (when I gave up XC) and it stayed that way until the BB threads failed. Bought my first proper DH bike later that same year.

*just removed 2 rings from the tripple and used the slightly modified front mech to hold the chain on.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,108
9,763
AK
4" travel "DH" bikes were just starting to show up when I took my hardtail to Northstar for the first time.
 

DJF

Chimp
Mar 16, 2018
8
4
4" travel "DH" bikes were just starting to show up when I took my hardtail to Northstar for the first time.
So lets narrow it down,
it is Not a Norco
It is Not a Saracen
it is Not a Vairo
it is Not a GSR Hooligan

None of the above makers used this single piece swing arm as far as I can tell or find. They used 4-point or hardtail configs.

A devil for a cookie for the person that finds the swing arm maker. It is Not a custom built swing arm, it was shipped to me in a box.
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
So lets narrow it down,
it is Not a Norco
It is Not a Saracen
it is Not a Vairo
it is Not a GSR Hooligan

None of the above makers used this single piece swing arm as far as I can tell or find. They used 4-point or hardtail configs.

A devil for a cookie for the person that finds the swing arm maker. It is Not a custom built swing arm, it was shipped to me in a box.
Dammit. And I know that peace sign swingarm junction from somewhere.....whothefuck.....Ross Schafer??? ok, I'm reaching and he would never do something that......um ostentatious...
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
So lets narrow it down,
it is Not a Norco
It is Not a Saracen
it is Not a Vairo
it is Not a GSR Hooligan

None of the above makers used this single piece swing arm as far as I can tell or find. They used 4-point or hardtail configs.

A devil for a cookie for the person that finds the swing arm maker. It is Not a custom built swing arm, it was shipped to me in a box.
Just throwing this out there, but could it have been a Barracuda? I know they used that same front end, but I can't for the life of me remember what the rear suspension looked like. We still had a brand new one in the rafters at the shop I wrenched at in 04-05ish, the general challenge was to try to sell it to any idiot from Floriduh looking for a sick downhill bike. I finally did, got the customer hooked up with a DNM inverted fork, an Azonic love seat, Grimeca brakes, and all the other shit we had laying around in inventory we knew nobody was ever going to buy.
 

DJF

Chimp
Mar 16, 2018
8
4
Just throwing this out there, but could it have been a Barracuda? I know they used that same front end, but I can't for the life of me remember what the rear suspension looked like. We still had a brand new one in the rafters at the shop I wrenched at in 04-05ish, the general challenge was to try to sell it to any idiot from Floriduh looking for a sick downhill bike. I finally did, got the customer hooked up with a DNM inverted fork, an Azonic love seat, Grimeca brakes, and all the other shit we had laying around in inventory we knew nobody was ever going to buy.
Great guess so far.... but

Barracuda unknown model?
The only picture I have found of the same frame uses a 4 link rear.
http://www.barracudabicycles.com/comparison.html

Barracuda Oblivion
The one to use a single piece swing arm is a smaller swing arm and specialized style frame.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/barracuda-oblivion-mountain-bike-race-spec./1195751965

Not saying they aren't the company as Any of these companies could be as they all use the same frame, just need to find which one that made this ridicules overkill rear I have on mine.

Well my bike I guess meets the terms as obscure and unknown.
 
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