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Pictures to ponder

face

Monkey
Sep 14, 2005
210
0
northern utah
that actually really does make me sad. whats so bad about a 2 foot wide trail i wonder if they would do the same thing if it were hikers? who is dnr and what are they going to do with the land?
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,560
2,233
In my pants
I love it.

USFS "decomissioned" a trail here a few years ago because of about 50ft of which passed through sage grouse habitat. No reroute, just destroyed. I walked the length of the trail counting LIVE trees they downed accross the trail. I stopped counting at 100.

Total Bullsh1t.
 

FatalExposure

Monkey
Sep 2, 2005
127
0
Oh I forgot to mention that the downhill trail was located on the edge of a massive slashed up clearcut. Like Kidwoo said, the trail decommisioners had cut small saplings in a clearcut ti destroy the trail. Pathetic.

IF there are builders in that area. HIDE YOUR TRAILS BETTER. KCSD is out there patrolling.
 

FatalExposure

Monkey
Sep 2, 2005
127
0
I'm wondering if DNR has taken a recent active interest in this area because they are planning on making a timber sale in an adjacent space. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see what's up with all the recent enforcement.
 

juice

Monkey
Nov 11, 2003
189
0
Seattle
I got a call from DNR yesterday, and they told me they removed a new trail up there that had encroached onto their land. Most of this area is either on Fruit Growers (private) or Forest Service land, and this was the first trail to venture onto DNR.

DNR, like most land managers, has a policy that trails need to be officially approved, or they risk being ripped out. They don't just do this with mt. biking trails, but also with ATV, and hiker trails from time to time.

Forest Service has chosen not to rip out the trails on FS land at this time, but I'm told this might change due to ongoing trail building at 27 and 38. They do know about both trail systems, but are currently more worried about shooting, 4x4's in wetlands and ATV use. This might change this spring - we'll see. As you all know, they have rangers up patrolling the area. Their main concerns are liability and resource damage such as erosion (ruts at 38) and cutting of trees.

We're in an odd place right now. Land managers are starting to understand that freeriding is here to stay, and is a big part of mountain biking. But they're still uneasy about the structures and enhanced features that come with this kind of trail. We're all looking for a place to build this kind of trail, but there are challenges.

They also see the ruts at 38 and the huge structures at 27 and think that's what bikers want - so their perception of our desired trails is a bit skewed. Last time IMBA was here we showed all the land managers video of Fromme and Seymour, so they're starting to get the idea that this stuff can be environmentally sustainable, and you don't need to be 8' up in the trees to make folks happy.

DNR still feels like they can't absorb the risk associated with DH/freeride trails. This will change eventually, but government "think" doesn't change quickly. We're telling them all about places like Blackrock in Falls City, which is a freeride area on Oregon Dept. of Forestry land (OR version of DNR). DNR also has had their budgets slashed, and thus isn't big on any new trails - be it hilker, horse or biker. There's potential here - but as you can see it won't be an easy sell.

King County is willing to play ball. The problem is that KC lands aren't ideal. We need something accessible and with good vert. I'd like to see at least 1000 ft, but I'll take what we can get. We also need to make sure there's plenty of rock and the soils drain well. Most KC land is West of the foothills.

Forest Servie - fuggitaboutit. There is a moratorium on any new trails in Region 6. We're working on a solution to this so we can build Phase II of the Olallie/South Fork Snoqualmie trail system, which will be xc. The solution might be to have State Parks manage and fund the trails even though they're on FS land. But its been 10 years in the making for this system, and we can't wait 10 more years to get freeride trails.

State Parks - maybe, but they don't have much land that would work for us.

Private - sure, if someone wants to play ball and has good land, we'll work with them to address maintenance and liability insurance.

I'd encourage folks to call DNR and the Forest Service to tell them that we really need a legit place for freeride trails. Demand will create the solution. Be profession and respectful. Getting bent won't help our cause.

Justin
BBTC's Exec. Dir and a shore junkie
justin@bbtc.org

http://bbtc.org
 

juice

Monkey
Nov 11, 2003
189
0
Seattle
Dave_Schuldt said:
If the FS feels like doing the paperwork you could wind up in federal prison, not fun.
Come on Dave, let's not let rumors get out of hand here. The local rangers don't even like to give tickets, much less cuff you and stuff you.
 

FatalExposure

Monkey
Sep 2, 2005
127
0
There is no federal law enforcement ranger in the district since John left in 2002. KCSD can barely be counted on to respond to legitimate complaints since they can frequently be found representing Starbucks. WSP is too busy on the Hway writing tickets. The game wardens are few and far between and are often way back in the middle of the hinterland.
 
Jul 19, 2002
234
0
Vancouver Washington
I think we need a freerider/mountain biker to run for Commissioner of Public lands and get old Dougey and his clear cut ways out of there! While were there we will clean house only Mountain bikers, freerider,and downhillers will hold poistions in the DNR. Trail building will be top of the list more the better with runs for all riders and since the DNR is all about protecting the land of endanger plant, species etc. ( yeh right what a line on bulls**t ) there will be no clear cutting! Oh yeh wouldn't that we awesome.
I'm sure we could give old Dougey a run for his money. :D :D :D :D :D
 

juice

Monkey
Nov 11, 2003
189
0
Seattle
FatalExposure said:
There is no federal law enforcement ranger in the district since John left in 2002. KCSD can barely be counted on to respond to legitimate complaints since they can frequently be found representing Starbucks. WSP is too busy on the Hway writing tickets. The game wardens are few and far between and are often way back in the middle of the hinterland.
Actually both DNR and the Forest Service got grants to pay for enforcement and education rangers this year. Each agency has approx. 4 full time rangers on staff right now. From what I understand meth labs and ATV use were becoming quite a problem for them.
 

downhillracer

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2005
1,231
0
Sammamish, WA
sadly enough i can confirm that the top section of the downhill trail is gone i was up there last saturday to ride, but the lower half of the downhill trail is still intacted.
........... by the way that pic was taken at the bottom of the top section of the downhill (where it crosses the road)
I believe the story on the freeride trail is different, there were no signs up there, from what i have heard the land which the freeride trail is on is private land.
PS- while i was up there a guy with an AR-15 (semi-auto version of the M-16) was firing off rounds up by the freeride trail:eek: scary!
 

Attachments

cove rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 8, 2004
1,331
0
no where important
man this is lame ya lets go cut down a ton of trees cause people enjoy riding here and we dont like people being happy we just like to destroy the enviroment for the fun of it to no benefit of others
 

How

Monkey
Sep 10, 2001
195
0
Area 51
damn, that deadfall is such a fire hazard, whoever runs the DNR really has no idea what is up... all that will cause runoff and such too, horrible... i've had to deal with this stuff way too much
 

carbuncle

Monkey
Dec 2, 2004
364
0
Edmonds, WA
juice said:
I got a call from DNR yesterday, and they told me they removed a new trail up there that had encroached onto their land. Most of this area is either on Fruit Growers (private) or Forest Service land, and this was the first trail to venture onto DNR.

DNR, like most land managers, has a policy that trails need to be officially approved, or they risk being ripped out. They don't just do this with mt. biking trails, but also with ATV, and hiker trails from time to time.

Forest Service has chosen not to rip out the trails on FS land at this time, but I'm told this might change due to ongoing trail building at 27 and 38. They do know about both trail systems, but are currently more worried about shooting, 4x4's in wetlands and ATV use. This might change this spring - we'll see. As you all know, they have rangers up patrolling the area. Their main concerns are liability and resource damage such as erosion (ruts at 38) and cutting of trees.

We're in an odd place right now. Land managers are starting to understand that freeriding is here to stay, and is a big part of mountain biking. But they're still uneasy about the structures and enhanced features that come with this kind of trail. We're all looking for a place to build this kind of trail, but there are challenges.

They also see the ruts at 38 and the huge structures at 27 and think that's what bikers want - so their perception of our desired trails is a bit skewed. Last time IMBA was here we showed all the land managers video of Fromme and Seymour, so they're starting to get the idea that this stuff can be environmentally sustainable, and you don't need to be 8' up in the trees to make folks happy.

DNR still feels like they can't absorb the risk associated with DH/freeride trails. This will change eventually, but government "think" doesn't change quickly. We're telling them all about places like Blackrock in Falls City, which is a freeride area on Oregon Dept. of Forestry land (OR version of DNR). DNR also has had their budgets slashed, and thus isn't big on any new trails - be it hilker, horse or biker. There's potential here - but as you can see it won't be an easy sell.

King County is willing to play ball. The problem is that KC lands aren't ideal. We need something accessible and with good vert. I'd like to see at least 1000 ft, but I'll take what we can get. We also need to make sure there's plenty of rock and the soils drain well. Most KC land is West of the foothills.

Forest Servie - fuggitaboutit. There is a moratorium on any new trails in Region 6. We're working on a solution to this so we can build Phase II of the Olallie/South Fork Snoqualmie trail system, which will be xc. The solution might be to have State Parks manage and fund the trails even though they're on FS land. But its been 10 years in the making for this system, and we can't wait 10 more years to get freeride trails.

State Parks - maybe, but they don't have much land that would work for us.

Private - sure, if someone wants to play ball and has good land, we'll work with them to address maintenance and liability insurance.

I'd encourage folks to call DNR and the Forest Service to tell them that we really need a legit place for freeride trails. Demand will create the solution. Be profession and respectful. Getting bent won't help our cause.

Justin
BBTC's Exec. Dir and a shore junkie
justin@bbtc.org

http://bbtc.org

Dammit, Justin, now I'm going to have to re-up my BBTC membership. Good to know you are actually working on this stuff, I will admit that my early impression of the organization's attitude toward freeriding was either incorrect or you have changed it enough to make my impression irrelevant now. Good work.

-Trace