[johnbryanpeters]

No mountain bikers at planning meeting...

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2018/03/29/panel-talks-mountain-biking-timber-trails-future-wncs-national-forests/465844002/

 

[StiHacka]

a great way to minimize erosion is to convert trails to modern sustainability standards ... The key is you don’t want to build a “biking” trail, you should be building a multiuse trail – this is the highest level of trail

And Pisgah is fucked.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Yeah, I have two cuts on that, and I'm conflicted.

Some of the trails that I have ridden really are fall line obscenely eroded open sores - challenging beyond what I can ride and not in any way sustainable, but I wouldn't want to see it transition to wide machine built endless berms...

 

[canadmos]

Some of the trails that I have ridden really are fall line obscenely eroded open sores

This is one thing our group collectively enjoyed about the trails, in particular Black Mountain (at the top). But I can see how that it is a little eroded beyond what most people would enjoy. Then again, it is rated as a black diamond trail..maybe it should be changed to double black?

I don't understand how building multi-use trails will help either, other than making them accessible to more people, which will only introduce more problems and conflicts. This is one huge difference between trails around Toronto and down there; up here it is a literal free-for-all on the trails, majority of trails are "shared" between all user groups and you betcha there are tons of conflicts. It was awesome in Pisgah knowing that we were riding on bike only trails.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

This is one thing our group collectively enjoyed about the trails, in particular Black Mountain (at the top). But I can see how that it is a little eroded beyond what most people would enjoy. Then again, it is rated as a black diamond trail..maybe it should be changed to double black?

I don't understand how building multi-use trails will help either, other than making them accessible to more people, which will only introduce more problems and conflicts. This is one huge difference between trails around Toronto and down there; up here it is a literal free-for-all on the trails, majority of trails are "shared" between all user groups and you betcha there are tons of conflicts. It was awesome in Pisgah knowing that we were riding on bike only trails.

I have done Black Mountain twice, both ways the second time; it's very challenging and it's also not anything like sustainable.

If Black Mountain's bikes only, that's news to me - I think it's multi-user.

 

[canadmos]

I have done Black Mountain twice, both ways the second time; it's very challenging and it's also not anything like sustainable.

If Black Mountain's bikes only, that's news to me - I think it's multi-user.

So it just needs MOAR water bars..lol.

I just checked my map and its labeled as a mountain biking trail, which allows foot traffic. Specifically says no equestrian use. No roller blading either.

I've ridden it 3 times didn't encounter any hikers. Black Mountain is the one trail that sticks out in my mind as being severely eroded, but only parts of trail at the top, after the hike-a-bike section.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

So it just needs MOAR water bars..lol.

I just checked my map and its labeled as a mountain biking trail, which allows foot traffic. Specifically says no equestrian use. No roller blading either.

I've ridden it 3 times didn't encounter any hikers. Black Mountain is the one trail that sticks out in my mind as being severely eroded, but only parts of trail at the top, after the hike-a-bike section.

We're seeing the same thing.

One of the things evident on this and many multi-use trails built to classical standards is that many water control structures just don't work. A log or a square timber is installed crossways to the tread, maybe with a dip behind in hopes that water will run to the side where usually there's no place for the water to go. Hikers start to bypass it immediately, it silts up in six months or so, and becomes a small waterfall that proceeds to undermine its own footings.

 

[canadmos]

Maybe we just need to make it rain less?

 

[roflbox]

"North Carolina Horse Council"
SHEIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

 

[KenW449]

Maybe we just need to make it rain less?

Move it to Southern Az, Cali, South Africa?

 

[canadmos]

NO

 

[6thElement]

We're seeing the same thing.

One of the things evident on this and many multi-use trails built to classical standards is that many water control structures just don't work. A log or a square timber is installed crossways to the tread, maybe with a dip behind in hopes that water will run to the side where usually there's no place for the water to go. Hikers start to bypass it immediately, it silts up in six months or so, and becomes a small waterfall that proceeds to undermine its own footings.

Plenty of bikers like riding around the side of water bars too.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

There's a discussion about Pisgah on that other site.

But here's the goods:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/108562_FSPLT3_4278332.pdf

https://cara.ecosystem-management.org/public/commentinput?project=53329

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Erosion is a huge problem up there. And it seems to to be more so than when I lived there 11 years ago. I can tell a major difference in some sections of trail in only a year or less. Not sure if it's because of increased usage or climate change.

One of the guys I rode Farlow last summer with said that a massive storm had come through and washed away a lot of dirt and moved boulders. When I lived there, we trained for DH on Farlow, often. It was fairly the same for the 6 years I was there. Last summer, it was almost unrecognizable and severely eroded. It looks more like a natural disaster than a trail that humans travel. So by all accounts it's gnarly as it gets and way harder than 11 years ago. And I hope it stays that way. Back in the day you could drive up to the end of the road and pedal a mile or so to the trailhead on your big bike. Now it's gated and you have to climb. And by climb I mean two hours of slogging up gravel roads and throwing your bike down, screaming, "this fucking road is never going to end, dammit !!". You have to be in shape just to get to the trail, period. That is going to weed out a lot of lesser skilled riders by default. I'd hate to see the Pisgah classics get neutered to make them more "sustainable" and "accessible".

Got to earn your gnar.

 

[jstuhlman]

nature changes things. sometimes making them more “gnar”, sometimes making them tamer. i’ve ridden enough of both pisgahs here to see both happen. (and i’ve seen plenty of hikers on black). if it was up to me i’d say let it be and deal with it. from what i can tell, it’s less about trail sustainability and more about what gets sent down into the water sources because of the trail erosion, and what that does to the ecosystem.

i will say, after having ridden a lot of backcountry trails for a while, i was a bit disappointed by the “mighty” farlow the first time i rode it a few years back. if it’s more rugged than it used to be, i’d say that’s a good thing. “middle” black is just as challenging, imo - roots and erosion versus rocks.

tl;dr - leave it the fuck alone and spend the $ cutting more trails on all of that amazing terrain.

 

[StiHacka]

That is going to weed out a lot of lesser skilled riders by default.

Nah, ebikes.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

i will say, after having ridden a lot of backcountry trails for a while, i was a bit disappointed by the “mighty” farlow the first time i rode it a few years back.

Oh, so you cleaned it then ?

Theriously, you are the first person I've ever heard say that.

As they say, if it is too easy for ya, just ride faster.

 

[jstuhlman]

the rock garden and rough steeps at the beginning, sure-any of the guys i ride with do as well...some of the quick tech-y climbs and the two trials-y creek crossings afterwards-now that’s where i need some work!