[profro]

Word from the Park Rangers:

1. Perry is now completey ILLEGAL to ride with a bike.

2. Bennett Gap is seasonal to bikes and the only time you can ride it is from October 15th to April 15th.

If you are caught poaching either, the fine is $250. I assume if there is anymore problems additional trails in Pisgah could be lost to bikes.

Contact the ranger district office if you have any further questions.

 

[Jeremy R]

You mean the rangers do not like it when busloads of people show up and ride Perry when it is wet, and drag their brakes all the way down it, all while knowing it is a sensitive trail anyway that the rangers just did work on.
Dumb.
That trail should have never been mentioned online.
Now its closed.

 

[eio]

That trail should have never been mentioned online.
Now its closed.

Yep.

That thread those a-holes started about shuttling up there got the trail closed.

What a bunch of dycks.

 

[bizutch]

I hate being right about it. It didn't even take a full month from the time it posted to the time it got shut down.

 

[eio]

I hate being right about it. It didn't even take a full month from the time it posted to the time it got shut down.

When your right your right.
Those effin dildos that started that post should be shot.

Its all their fault. Arseholes the lot of 'em.

 

[Jeremy R]

Yep.

That thread those a-holes started about shuttling up there got the trail closed.

What a bunch of dycks.

Quit taking it personal azz clit.
It was not your thread that got it shut down, but widespread use, alot of which started on internet message boards, meaning alot more people found out about it, and alot more people rode it.
I did not blame anyone in particular in my post, it is just a crappy situation.
The trail was overused period, and people were taking busloads of people up and down it, so now it is closed.

 

[bizutch]

look at this crap...they're all proud of themselves??? a singletrack in Pisgah Forest saw THIS kind of usage on a RAINY DAY???

Good lord...I'm surprised we aren't banned from the forest for life?

 

[Taz]

Holy ****!

That was just f'king stupid if you ask me. People know not to use trails when they are wet! ESPECIALLY in a national forest!

 

[eio]

Quit taking it personal azz clit.
It was not your thread that got it shut down, but widespread use, alot of which started on internet message boards, meaning alot more people found out about it, and alot more people rode it.
I did not blame anyone in particular in my post, it is just a crappy situation.
The trail was overused period, and people were taking busloads of people up and down it, so now it is closed.

Your buddy Profroot acts like it was our thread that doomed the trail.

And when that thread posted, that's the same reaction that occurred. From you too if I recall correctly..............dipshyt.

We didn't see the kind of traffic in those pics when we were there. It was us and one maybe two other cars that day.

It's a shame that it got closed, but in reality how do you expect to limit the bike activity on those trails when they are open to everyone?

Do you think that they were going to stay some sort of regional secret forever?
Especially when they were multi-use. The horse people will always win those battles.

The only place I've ever seen little to no conflict on a multi-use trail was out West.

In the East, land use is limited and people like to cry alot.
They need to have segregated trails otherwise there will always be a conflict.

 

[profro]

You're about the coolest tool I know, eio. Its so cool how you mis-spell my name. I even bet your dad can beat mine up.

I remember a thread where some dicks came across all unbothered about the trail getting too much use and how it was everyone's right to use it, blah, blah, blah. After getting the call about the closure I thought it would be good to remind everyone what that thread was about and how some should learn from it. We never once said don't ride Perry, but we as pollitly as possible tried to say be quite about it to limit the numbers so its usage wouldn't get out of hand. Unfortunately it did and now none us will have the previledge of riding it without a $250 pricetage. We all lost.

 

[bikejunke]

on my last trip to pisgah, about three months ago, it was obvious to me that perry cove had been shredded and was going to be gone soon. such careless shredding of a national park is going to result in trail closures, there is no way around it. i personally can't imagine how this could be the result of anything but a long term overuse, by irresponsible speed freaks, like me! neaky: it really is quite a shame, that trail rocks, self control, self control, and respect. these trails are on PUBLIC property, and should be treated as such. please everyone respect what we have, so that more trails aren't closed. if you want to test your gravity boots come on over to our turf, windrock is private property no park rangers allowed! perry cove will be sadly missed, please, please, please, let this be the end, take heed, we have much more to lose!

 

[Crazy Dan]

C’mon, quit blaming the guys who posted a thread a couple months ago about riding up there. They only rode there once. Obviously hundreds of others have ridden there and some of them disrespected the land. Sounds like it is too late to approach the Rangers to make peace and see if there is a possibility of getting some downhill shuttle trails official sanctioned in Pisgah.

 

[eio]

You're about the coolest tool I know, eio. Its so cool how you mis-spell my name. I even bet your dad can beat mine up.

I remember a thread where some dicks came across all unbothered about the trail getting too much use and how it was everyone's right to use it, blah, blah, blah. After getting the call about the closure I thought it would be good to remind everyone what that thread was about and how some should learn from it. We never once said don't ride Perry, but we as pollitly as possible tried to say be quite about it to limit the numbers so its usage wouldn't get out of hand. Unfortunately it did and now none us will have the previledge of riding it without a $250 pricetage. We all lost.

What I said to Bizitch, goes for you too knucklehead:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1551856&posted=1#post1551856

I'd rather be tool than a soap-box-preaching hypocrite.

 

[los jefes]

I'll throw in my two cents. I live here. I've shuttled here. I've done quite a bit of trail maintenance here. I don't think the monkeyfest was the straw that broke the camel's back. There is absolutely NO evidence that it did. But, the amount of shuttling that has happened in the last two years on Bennet/Perry has increased immeasurably (sp?). Some of it because of internet forums, some of it do to shops that told people it was a good shuttle (including the one in Brevard that leaked the info in the first place). What it boils down to is that the trails were not cut and designed with amount of use in mind. It does not drain like Tsali and is more susceptible to damage. Rangers, volunteers and hired hands have done a tremendous amount of work out there recently (some good, some bad) and shuttling, lack of sustainability and overuse have shut this down. These are not good DH trails. They may be fun, but a 7inch bike is WAY more bike than needed on ANY trail in Pisgah. That is a crutch used to compensate for lack of skill. There are lots of locals who roast on a 4" bike and have more fun and will go bigger than most. Sorry, that is not the point. Pisgah is not a DH destination. It is a National Forest and access is fragile. Think of good DH spots that any of you guys know of. They are NOT in a National Forest. Ski slopes, Private land, bike parks, etc. Please keep this in mind. Sorry for the long post.

 

[meatboot]

look at this crap...they're all proud of themselves??? a singletrack in Pisgah Forest saw THIS kind of usage on a RAINY DAY???

Good lord...I'm surprised we aren't banned from the forest for life?

First off, Perry was (is) an awesome trail, and I'm sorry that my first ride will be my last. I'm also sorry for whatever I did to contribute to the closure and will do what I can to reverse the closure

Second, I have nothing but respect for Pisgah locals, Butch and Chris in particular. But there are some things that need to be cleared up. The pictures you posted were from Saturday, when we rode Trace Ridge. They're also from the initial headcount, after which split into 2 groups. True the day was overcast, but the trails were firm and imminently ridable, and there was no rain. You'll also notice that the group contained a healthy dose of pure XC types. We didn't shuttle Perry until the next day, when the trails were even drier, and with a much smaller group.

 

[biggins]

you know butch that picture would be so accurate if that were actually Perry Cove or Bennett Gap.

hey butch, how did your illegal shuttle go on saturday?didnt you get caught?

anyway more to the point. Trails closures happen here, it sucks but its a fact. if i had something to do with it, then that sucks to. I dont however think that and internet forum got a trail closed. Thats a little absurd.

oh well. in all honesty i dont really care. western NC will never have a place suitable for shuttling or riding big bikes and thats the way it goes. until the place is set aside then pisgah it is. pretty soon the forest service will realize that closing trails just puts more people on fewer trails and they will do something about it.

also one thing to think about, you all gripe about people dragging their brakes down the trail, i dont know too many people that shuttle that trail on big bikes and have to drag their brakes. i am sure some do but the DH bikes are meant to handle it. Maybe the issue is with xc riders because they have to ride their brakes and control their speed more to handle the given terrain.

 

[biggins]

Nothing other than the people who operate and patronize the horse stables have commented to the rangers about the the increased bike and vehicluar traffic related to the shuttling of Perry. I can only assume that the rangers felt it best to make them illegal to bikes. Everyone thought that we were being dicks to just be elitist, but we have been around long enough to know that this kind of stuff happens. So learn your lessons and move on.

this statement is very true. i think that in lioght of situations like this one, maybe we should try something new. Maybe getting together to get an area set aside for us to use. i mean instead of slamming each other all day we could harness this energy into something positive. it would take a lot of work, but it may actually work out.

 

[biggins]

I'll throw in my two cents. I live here. I've shuttled here. I've done quite a bit of trail maintenance here. I don't think the monkeyfest was the straw that broke the camel's back. There is absolutely NO evidence that it did. But, the amount of shuttling that has happened in the last two years on Bennet/Perry has increased immeasurably (sp?). Some of it because of internet forums, some of it do to shops that told people it was a good shuttle (including the one in Brevard that leaked the info in the first place). What it boils down to is that the trails were not cut and designed with amount of use in mind. It does not drain like Tsali and is more susceptible to damage. Rangers, volunteers and hired hands have done a tremendous amount of work out there recently (some good, some bad) and shuttling, lack of sustainability and overuse have shut this down. These are not good DH trails. They may be fun, but a 7inch bike is WAY more bike than needed on ANY trail in Pisgah. That is a crutch used to compensate for lack of skill. There are lots of locals who roast on a 4" bike and have more fun and will go bigger than most. Sorry, that is not the point. Pisgah is not a DH destination. It is a National Forest and access is fragile. Think of good DH spots that any of you guys know of. They are NOT in a National Forest. Ski slopes, Private land, bike parks, etc. Please keep this in mind. Sorry for the long post.

so who could we talk to to try and get some land set aside for the use of dh?do you have any names?

 

[los jefes]

Unfortunately, I don't have the answer. I know that Woody has been entertaining the idea of building a freeride park at Alexander. Nobody wants to help much do to the poison ivy, ticks and rednecks with guns. There is a lot of potential out there and we have free reign over the joint. The current trend is to build your own DH trail and keep it to yourself. I can think of several examples of this. I am more concerned with stopping the closures than anything else right now. At this rate, trace ridge will be closed as well. Lots of shuttling there and lots of horses and hikers as well = conflict.

 

[biggins]

Unfortunately, I don't have the answer. I know that Woody has been entertaining the idea of building a freeride park at Alexander. Nobody wants to help much do to the poison ivy, ticks and rednecks with guns. There is a lot of potential out there and we have free reign over the joint. The current trend is to build your own DH trail and keep it to yourself. I can think of several examples of this. I am more concerned with stopping the closures than anything else right now. At this rate, trace ridge will be closed as well. Lots of shuttling there and lots of horses and hikers as well = conflict.

stopping the closure would be ideal i agree completely. Alexander would not be ideal due to logistical reasons and safety issues (rednecks with guns)as well as the idea that there is no open access to the top and the trails get destroyed by four wheelers and dirtbikes. thats just my 2 cents.

everyone blames the shuttling aspect of the use of trails does anyone think it would be different if the same amount of riders used it but pedaled up the hill?i dont think it would so lets think more along the lines of trail impact in general due to sheer numbers of users. There is only one way to cut back the number of users on any trail and that is to make more trails.

 

[biggins]

also, ihave tried to organize groups to go start doing some renegade bilding at alexander but ended up out there by myself because no one here wants to do any work.

sidenote:when are you gonna be downtown today?is the comp in the same location?call me if ya want i am at work and it is raining so i will have lots of down time.

 

[LOOnatic]

Just to clarify a point.
The pic on the 1st page of cars and bikes was at another LEGAL trail.
When the monkeyfest crew rode Bennet/perry we did so only one time .
Yes, one time.
Our leader quickly ushered us up the hill out of site and burly's girl drove one truck down so we only left 1 vehicle.
It was done as incognito as possible.

And for out of towners like myself: i'm one of those litter freaks who actually picks up random trash on the trail and stuff it into my cargo short pockets out of habit so not everyone is a total a$$ that rides their from out of town.

Great trails there, sorry to see the situation escalate.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I dont get the blaming the shuttling aspect either? Except for one instance on the single track (I do not remember where) during that entire weekend the only place we encountered other users was while climbing the fire roads (which shuttling eliminates).

Ok these are questions, not flames...

What reasons has the Forest Service given for trail closures?

Condition of the trails? ie... erosion either from water shed or too much use. For example Trace is a very well built trail that does not have any glaring issues (maybe Lower Trace where those waterbars are). From what everyone is saying Perry/Bennet was pretty torn up?

User Conflicts?

Umm I dont know what else?

It seems you do have an Ace in the hole(ok maybe not an Ace but a high card). Woody Keen is a very respected person in the community, if the Forest svc is already contracting him to put on clinics/workshops I would imagine he is close to the inner loop. Wether you like him or his trailbuilding techniques or not I would imagine he would be forth coming with information regarding bicycle access in the forest.

 

[wooglin]

does anyone think it would be different if the same amount of riders used it but pedaled up the hill?i dont think it would so lets think more along the lines of trail impact in general due to sheer numbers of users.

I don't think it would be different either, but the fact seems to be that there are fewer people willing to pedal up stuff like that than there are willing to ride down it. Last weekend was a case in point.

Hard to drag a tire when you're climbing, too.

 

[profro]

this statement is very true. i think that in lioght of situations like this one, maybe we should try something new. Maybe getting together to get an area set aside for us to use. i mean instead of slamming each other all day we could harness this energy into something positive. it would take a lot of work, but it may actually work out.

It may not be as far fetched as it seems. Look at Windrock, the "dhers" got kicked out of a few placed before they found a home at Windrock. Another example is the Bigfoot Mtn Bike park in Knoxville. That property was set aside by the county for us to build and maintain a 4x track as well as trails that we build. Organize and good things can heppen.

 

[biggins]

iwish it could happen Doug, and i dont want to come off as a dci klike that especially towards you. I have tried on numerous occasions to get people out to alexander to build but alas every time i go i end up there by myself and wind up spending half the day carrying tools in to do the work.

alexander is there for us to use and it seems almost as if we can build whtever we want to there as long as it is built properly.

 

[biggins]

doug, it seems everyone is blaming monkeyfest for the shutdown of the trail. i am curious about this because all we did was ride it once and that was it. do you know when they actually closed the trail to bikes?was it monday?

 

[Jeremy R]

iwish it could happen Doug, and i dont want to come off as a dci klike that especially towards you. I have tried on numerous occasions to get people out to alexander to build but alas every time i go i end up there by myself and wind up spending half the day carrying tools in to do the work.

alexander is there for us to use and it seems almost as if we can build whtever we want to there as long as it is built properly.

Yep, Biggins is right here. Organizing trail work around that area is like trying to take a Twinkie from Kirstie Alley. I guess people have so many trails, they just don't want to build, but either way it sucks.

And to clear up my earlier comments, I was not blaming anybody or group in particular. If that is the case, I would have to point the finger at myself as well for riding the trail. My point was that the trail got shut down from lots of overuse and damage which comes from too many riders using the trail.
Like Biggins said, Pisgah is just not cut out for shuttling, and luckily all the best trails have to be climbed to anyway.
This closure should give locals more incentive to protect what you have though. This sucks for everybody.

 

[profro]

Ben I know you, I know nothing has been directed towards me and I haven't taken anything personal. I was contacted by someone and asked to put this information up on Ridemonkey because he doesn't post here. I'm not going to say who told me, because I don't know if he wants his name out there to take the heat. But I suppose you could guess.

I didn't ask the reason, however he mentioned that the people at the horse stables complained to the rangers, so I assume its related to the vehicluar traffic and the presense of people hanging out at the bottom of Perry. It may be coencidence that it got shut down right after Monkeyfest, but it also may have been the last straw. I don't know, but you guys might try calling the ranger office and asking.

 

[profro]

iwish it could happen Doug, and i dont want to come off as a dci klike that especially towards you. I have tried on numerous occasions to get people out to alexander to build but alas every time i go i end up there by myself and wind up spending half the day carrying tools in to do the work.

alexander is there for us to use and it seems almost as if we can build whtever we want to there as long as it is built properly.

I know. I'm out at Bigfoot twice a week digging, raking, and clearing trails. Trying to get people to help is completely useless. I just know that if I want to ride it, then I must work on it.

 

[bizutch]

.....

alexander is there for us to use and it seems almost as if we can build whtever we want to there as long as it is built properly....

Ben, if you want to push the issue at Alexander, followup with MIKE NIX and attend a BRBC meeting. They got a grant for $50,000.00 and are going to expand the trails out there this summer.

When you do, send me an email of the minutes and work days you have planned for Alexander and I'll fire it out on the MADRHA mailing list. The MADHRA mailing list can accomplish a tremendous amount if everyone in the Southeast will take advantage of it. People don't have tiem to browse all the different websites to findout what's happening this week, next week, this month.

Riders, if you want an event broadcast to several hundred mountaincross and DH enthusiasts, give me a write up and I will forward it on. Also, I highly suggest that you attend the seminar at the Cradle of Forestry May 7th. It's going to be VERY useful. You can learn how to effectively build a trail that is better than anything in existence and that you can use for years to come

 

[bizutch]

BIG UPDATE:
The rangers were LIVID after this past weekend because when they arrived at the trails, they found DH bikes and freaked over the "MASSIVE" tires on them and said they were "Motorcycles with pedals" and not what should be on Forest Service land. They handed out fines TOO They even interrogated one local mountain bike trail builder to see if he knew about them. They were talking of wanting to ban big bikes from Pisgah. Apparently whoever was out there this last weekend either left a bad impression...or caught the Forest Service on a bad day.

Now THAT is a worst case scenario!

Not pointing blame here...just letting people know the seriousness of the situation.

 

[spoke80]

BIG UPDATE:
The rangers were LIVID after this past weekend because when they arrived at the trails, they found DH bikes and freaked over the "MASSIVE" tires on them and said they were "Motorcycles with pedals" and not what should be on Forest Service land. They handed out fines TOO They even interrogated one local mountain bike trail builder to see if he knew about them. They were talking of wanting to ban big bikes from Pisgah. Apparently whoever was out there this last weekend either left a bad impression...or caught the Forest Service on a bad day.

Now THAT is a worst case scenario!

Not pointing blame here...just letting people know the seriousness of the situation.

Thanks for the heads up Butch.
I was just talking to a good buddy of mine (bikejunke) and he mentioned that shuting down the trails to bikers would eliminate a large stream of revenue to the area.

I totally agree and that point could be the savior of our potential loss of access. But I do see a possible sanctioning on access to shuttle vehicles and Dh bikes. The only other issue will be determining who gets access on what type of bike;a very gray area. One senerio could be an equipment check to secure a permit.(I'm just brainstorming)

 

[biggins]

BIG UPDATE:
The rangers were LIVID after this past weekend because when they arrived at the trails, they found DH bikes and freaked over the "MASSIVE" tires on them and said they were "Motorcycles with pedals" and not what should be on Forest Service land. They handed out fines TOO They even interrogated one local mountain bike trail builder to see if he knew about them. They were talking of wanting to ban big bikes from Pisgah. Apparently whoever was out there this last weekend either left a bad impression...or caught the Forest Service on a bad day.

Now THAT is a worst case scenario!

Not pointing blame here...just letting people know the seriousness of the situation.

thats funny cause when we were there we didnt encounter a single ranger, not one, not even a forest service vehicle on the road. not a single one. it must not have been us that they saw.

 

[Jeremy R]

Yeah, that does sound strange.
Unless that was the rangers first day on the job, he would have seen DH bikes in Pisgah before.
That whole which bike to let in thing would really suck, and would be a huge headache for everybody. especially considering how many people trail ride on "bullit" type bikes.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

BIG UPDATE:
The rangers were LIVID after this past weekend because when they arrived at the trails, they found DH bikes and freaked over the "MASSIVE" tires on them and said they were "Motorcycles with pedals" and not what should be on Forest Service land. They handed out fines TOO

So it sounds like they caught the people causing the issue?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

thats funny cause when we were there we didnt encounter a single ranger, not one, not even a forest service vehicle on the road. not a single one. it must not have been us that they saw.

haha.. We even tried to flag one down when we were walking back to our Trucks (we had NO BIKES WITH US at the time) on the Parkway. He whizzed through the Tunnel at 70mph+ so he could go sit at the gate at 191 blocking traffic with his Coffee

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

One senerio could be an equipment check to secure a permit.(I'm just brainstorming)

Not a bad idea at all. Well at least not the permit thing. I would be happy to buy an access permit. When you buy it, they should have maps with what trails are open to bikes etc etc. You have to pay (a small fee) to get into almost every park in our area.

Do you need a license to fish in Pisgah/NC etc? I dont see why it would be different.

 

[spoke80]

Not a bad idea at all. Well at least not the permit thing. I would be happy to buy an access permit. When you buy it, they should have maps with what trails are open to bikes etc etc. You have to pay (a small fee) to get into almost every park in our area.

Do you need a license to fish in Pisgah/NC etc? I dont see why it would be different.

The money from the "permit" could go to the maintainence and construction of trails. Everyone wins.

 

[bizutch]

The ideal place to layout a Dh trail would be in Dupont....but I don't know anything about that forest...it's layout, access, etc...

After watching what the British guys do to get in a DH run...my eyes a little more open.