[El_Chimichanga]

I'll get right to the thick of it...

My hayes rear brake has a very inconsistent feel to it. It feels like it needs to be bled, but I'm pretty friggin' sure that is not the case. At first when you use it, it actually feels pretty good, and then it starts to pump down to the handlebar. It is particularly noticeable if I pull the front end of the bike up and stand it on the rear wheel. After that, the lever goes to the bar consistently.

I have replaced the hose, and the master cylinder cartridge, and bled it following hayes instructions to the "T" at least 4 times. I know how to bleed hayes pretty good, so that is not necessarily the issue. I have bled 3 other hayes and they all feel fine, and this one consistently feels weird.

I'm thinking that maybe it's the caliper that may be messed up. I was on a trip in BC and my friend borrowed this bike. Well, apparently they left the pads out, sqeezed the lever and broke the piston in the caliper. The following repair was done by a local bike shop, but for a sixer, and not your standard form of payment. Is it possible that the piston in the caliper are sticking or not moving properly? Is there a large amount of air trapped in the caliper that I haven't bled out? Is there something that I haven't thought of yet? I just needs some more ideas. I could go buy hopes or something but then I would have to change my wardrobe and get some class. I don't want class, I just want to learn how to fix this f'ing thing. Give me some ideas.

 

[ssaddict]

Have someone pump the lever while you bleed it, that's how the Hayes tech's got my lever to feel a little bit more firm.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Have someone pump the lever while you bleed it, that's how the Hayes tech's got my lever to feel a little bit more firm.

Ummm, If you read the Hayes bleed instructions they have online, they actually say to do that. So....basically I just shut you down 'cause I followed those instructions. Thanks.Try again. OWNED!

Actually, the lever DOES feel firm. REALLY firm. Like I say to myself, "DAMN. TAHT WAS A GUD BLEED!"
But then I pull the bike up to go put it away and the lever just dies off.

MAybe it's got performance anxiety or something.

hahhahahahahahhahahhaha.

Keep the ideas coming. Nothing is too small or stupid. I can always make fun of you if they are stupid.

 

[zedro]

i'm fairly certain your bleed is 'incomplete'. Basically you do not have enough fluid in the system.

My rear started doing this as well; it had the power but when stored the lever would go to the bar and i'd have to pump the lever in the upward position to get it back to normal.

The solution was to bleed, bleed again, and keep bleeding. I have no idea why it took so many times, but basically you bleed it, close it off, jam your lever as hard as you can over and over, bleed again and you'll see more air come out. It took me about 6 times doing this with all the bleed tricks to finally get it acceptable, although i have a feeling it could always use one more go.

I dont understand why this happens and it doesnt seem to be common.

PS...its not exactly cool to 'own' someone thats trying to help you...

 

[kidwoo]

Ummm, If you read the Hayes bleed instructions they have online, they actually say to do that. So....basically I just shut you down 'cause I followed those instructions. Thanks.Try again. OWNED!
.

You're an idiot but I'll help you anyway.

There's no way your friend "broke" the piston just by squeezing the lever with no pads in the caliper. What is more likely is that the shop who replaced it 1) didn't bleed them properly afterwords or 2) screwed up the placement of the o-ring that seats the piston when they put it back in.

You have air in your system, there's no question. I've had a hayes line leak through a pinhole slowly over a few months before. What this did was make the lever feel loose at first, pump up and then the brake felt fine......until I had lost enough fluid. Then it behaved like yours after a while. It sounds like you don't have enough fluid in the system as a whole to sufficiently fill the hose, much less pump more in from the reservior. Replace the hose and give them a proper bleed. It's not that hard.

And please refrain from "owning" or "serving" or "shutting down" people who are trying to help your cause.

 

[kidwoo]

Wow zed. You and I just had a zen moment.......................you just hit submit sooner.

 

[Zark]

It sounds like there is still air in there. Changing lines leaves a lot places for bubbles to form. Tap the lever, caliper, lines as you bleed to free up bubbles. Also you might try taking it off the bike to straighten bends that could trap air.

 

[ssaddict]

Ummm, If you read the Hayes bleed instructions they have online, they actually say to do that. So....basically I just shut you down 'cause I followed those instructions. Thanks.Try again. OWNED!

Actually, the lever DOES feel firm. REALLY firm. Like I say to myself, "DAMN. TAHT WAS A GUD BLEED!"
But then I pull the bike up to go put it away and the lever just dies off.

MAybe it's got performance anxiety or something.

hahhahahahahahhahahhaha.

Keep the ideas coming. Nothing is too small or stupid. I can always make fun of you if they are stupid.

Hmm, well that's one step some people forget.

Like Zedro says, just keep doing it till you get it right. I use a syringe when I bleed my brakes, and i'll push and pull on it. I'm sometimes able to suck small bubbles out of the caliper, I often try to tap on the caliper with a screwdrive or something at the same time.

 

[LOOnatic]

I had a problem similiar to what you are describing.
After lots of cursing and spilt fluid from like fifty something bleeds i wound up changing the bladdrer bag thing in the m-c housing.

Hint on bleeding: i found by unsecuring the rear hydraulic line and letting it move around so i could tap it and what not it gave a better bleed.

I guess some small air bubbles where hiding some where in the line.

Oh, get some class! :eviltongu :nuts:

 

[punkassean]

I tend to agree with Zed (at least on this issue ), I have had many a hayes issue similar to yours in the past. I recently rebuilt the hayes on my DH bike with new pistons, pads, lines, and master cylinder reservoir overhauls. At first the front felt perfect but the rear had a super short throw, after a while they evened out a bit but they are still a little different. Typically the front brake is stiffer than the rear due to having a shorter line and less potential for expansion but in my case it was bass ackwards. I have also had to bleed Hayes up to 5-6 times before to get all the stubborn air pockets out. To specifically answer one of your questions though, it is possible that the piston is a little crooked or that the square o-ring seal wasn't lubed prior to installation and that could be the cause of the problem but it sounds more like a bleeding issue to me. If you are comfortable bleeding Hayes the you are capable of completely tearing them apart and rebuilding them again, just to be sure the master cylinder is assembled correctly and the pistons are moving freely etc.

I have lots o' tools and mucho Hayes know how, if you need a hand, hit me up you know the digits...

Zed, try to exercise your sense of humor, Paul is a funny dood and he's trying to be "light hearted" with his comments about "owning" people and such...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt having never met him in person.

 

[cali4niabiker]

I'll get right to the thick of it...

My hayes rear brake has a very inconsistent feel to it. It feels like it needs to be bled, but I'm pretty friggin' sure that is not the case. At first when you use it, it actually feels pretty good, and then it starts to pump down to the handlebar. It is particularly noticeable if I pull the front end of the bike up and stand it on the rear wheel. After that, the lever goes to the bar consistently.

I have replaced the hose, and the master cylinder cartridge, and bled it following hayes instructions to the "T" at least 4 times. I know how to bleed hayes pretty good, so that is not necessarily the issue. I have bled 3 other hayes and they all feel fine, and this one consistently feels weird.

I'm thinking that maybe it's the caliper that may be messed up. I was on a trip in BC and my friend borrowed this bike. Well, apparently they left the pads out, sqeezed the lever and broke the piston in the caliper. The following repair was done by a local bike shop, but for a sixer, and not your standard form of payment. Is it possible that the piston in the caliper are sticking or not moving properly? Is there a large amount of air trapped in the caliper that I haven't bled out? Is there something that I haven't thought of yet? I just needs some more ideas. I could go buy hopes or something but then I would have to change my wardrobe and get some class. I don't want class, I just want to learn how to fix this f'ing thing. Give me some ideas.

Was the brake good when you started? What I meant was did the brake work when you bought it new/used and some time later, it died. I had the same problem... and my front brake failed about 20 miles into the 12 hour race last year @ BB and rode it for an additional 60 - 70 miles without a front brake. If it is under warranty, get it replaced ASAP. Its most likely a busted seal in the caliper or in the lever. I spent hours bleeding that SOB and tried taking the whole brake out and tapped the h3ll out of it while bleeding (all with a syringe), and the end result was an improvement of the brake performance for like 100 feet, then after that, it dies like a stuck ink:. I think your lines are fine and I'm pretty sure you've gotten the bubbles out as is as long as it is done correctly (bleed via syringe, it makes your life easier!).

EDIT: It doesn't look like a stuck piston - there is an entirely different feel if the piston is stuck... I've fixed a front hydro brake on an ATV with a stuck piston. It will grab very slowly and stay there. The brakes will continue squealing/dragging until the piston retreats enough.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Hmm, well that's one step some people forget.

Like Zedro says, just keep doing it till you get it right. I use a syringe when I bleed my brakes, and i'll push and pull on it. I'm sometimes able to suck small bubbles out of the caliper, I often try to tap on the caliper with a screwdrive or something at the same time.

Syringe was the next step...where to get? ACE hardware? OSH? Home Despot? Auto parts store like Kragen?

Bleed and bleed again was the solution to my problem once before.

What I was thinking was this...
1. Push the pistons all the way into the caliper to try to get air out of the caliper and total system. (hayes sayes to do this first)
2. Bleed with syringe and use push/pull method.
3. close system at the caliper side, but leave it open on the top.
4. With fresh fluid in the container at the top, pump the lever, making the pistons start to move in. I am effectively over-filling the caliper with fluid.
5.close the top.
6.push the pistons all the way back in, (assuming they will go) and force the liquid up into the master cylinder, filling it up.
7. put the pads back in and see what happens.

By "over-filling" the system I think it might work, because I can't even get the system to completely fill in the first place????

 

[punkassean]

you can get a large volume syringe at rite-aid, you might need to ask the pharmacy for it. I really don't think you'll need it although it is nicer than the Hayes squeeze bottle.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

PS...its not exactly cool to 'own' someone thats trying to help you...

Right. Understood. Where can I get some of this "cool"? Can I also own it? How about I hax0r it instead? I'm sorry, I'm not very good at Intarweb etiqutte. Dad just hooked up AOL and I get all hyped up playing doom3 sometimes.

PS. It was a joke. So was this. I really appreciate any help tha tis recievered, just trying to have fun. Can I kiss your ass some more..oh great moduratorz?

 

[cali4niabiker]

I really appreciate any help tha tis recievered, just trying to have fun. Can I kiss your ass some more..oh great moduratorz?

Zed, he is hitting on you... uh oh, this is getting kinda ghey and interesting... time to get some popcorn and a six pack to watch it all unwind.

 

[Lizard0fthetrai]

I've had the same problem, and what I did was :
Make sure the pistons are not pushed out i.e. the lever was pushed with no disc/pads between the pistons and

Make sure there is enough fluid and no air by squeezing the lever and continually pumping fluid through the system.

Furthermore, you should probably cut back on the biting sarcasm until people here are acclimated to your personality...so as to avoid being potentially labeled an asshat prematurely.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

There's no way your friend "broke" the piston just by squeezing the lever with no pads in the caliper.

Actually, if you take the pads out but put the wheel back in you can very easily break your pistons when they jam into the rotor and snap off that little nugget that holds the pads in place.

...2) screwed up the placement of the o-ring that seats the piston when they put it back in.

How would I go about checking this? (Besides RTFM) This one definately intrigues me.

Replace the hose and give them a proper bleed. It's not that hard.

I did. You're right it was not hard. It WAS annoying though.

You're an idiot but I'll help you anyway.

I don't know if you saw but I already owned one person pretty bad earlier on this thread, please don't make me do it again.

I AM SOORY I SAID TAHT I WILL BUY U SOME COOKIES.

I like Pepperidge Farm Sausalito

 

[kidwoo]

Actually, if you take the pads out but put the wheel back in you can very easily break your pistons when they jam into the rotor and snap off that little nugget that holds the pads in place.

How would I go about checking this? (Besides RTFM) This one definately intrigues me.

I did. You're right it was not hard. It WAS annoying though.

I don't know if you saw but I already owned one person pretty bad earlier on this thread, please don't make me do it again.

I like Pepperidge Farm Sausalito

I meant braking the piston itself, not engaging the tab for the pad on a rotor and then moving the rotor.

You can check the o-ring by taking apart the caliper (5mm allens on it) and pulling out the piston. The ring is like a square "tube" that forms a circle...not like a regular o-ring which is more tubular. It's like a thick rubber band. It therefore has an ideal seating within the caliper on one of the flat edges. Sometimes people will put them in, not seated properly and this compromises the seal between the o-ring and the plastic piston. I would just try rebleeding them before you go through that trouble though. If you buy a piston replacement kit you'll see what I mean by the "square" o-ring.

I'll try to get the sausalitos fresh. Please don't own me. Nobody likes a crunchy cookie.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Furthermore, you should probably cut back on the biting sarcasm until people here are acclimated to your personality...so as to avoid being potentially labeled an asshat prematurely.

My abrasive first impressions extend into real life as well. I'm starting to think that I have an actual "asshat" on my head, so many people call me that.

 

[Kornphlake]

You should sell those Hayes and get Hopes, you're not worthy of Hayes... OOOOHHHH OWNED

 

[zedro]

I'm sorry, I'm not very good at Intarweb etiqutte.

common etiquette usually suffices, you know, like in reality?.

For example, if this was in person, you were in the parking lot having trouble with your brakes, a complete stranger came by to help you bleed and suggested you try a certain method....would you start laughing in his face, yelling "OWNED!!!" because you had already tried so?

as for having a sense of humor, some people mistake being obnoxious for being funny. Yeah i know it can be hard to tell the difference, but all things come with time....

 

[Kornphlake]

Sorry for that last post, I get so involved in playing video games I don't understand reality, I think everybody is a gigantic slobbery monster and I need to blast them with a fictional gun. I'm not very good at games so I try and verbally blast people who I don't know on the internet. You should probablly add me to your ignore list.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

....would you start laughing in his face, yelling "OWNED!!!" because you had already tried so?

I did tell my mom to get lost when she tried to give me a hug. Then she cried so I just slammed the door. Then I made her bleed my brakes and make some PB&J sammiches.

...... Just kidding. My mom lives like 500miles away. I would give her a hug if she asked. I like teh intarweb 'cause you can get good answers to tough questions, and then make fun at the same time. I misspell a lot of words on purpose 'cause it's funny. I really don't look like my Avatar, that was from halloween last year. People at work didn't even recognize me.
To anwer your question: I would say "OWNED!!!" if it was necessary, or if I was drunk. I would probably get some sort of severe beating.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

You should sell those Hayes and get Hopes, you're not worthy of Hayes... OOOOHHHH OWNED

I think I'm gonna cry...

 

[wirly]

Holy sh!t...hard to type with tears running down face.
This is the funniest thread in a long long time. LOL

I had serious doubts about punkass's assertion that asshat, er, Paul, was funny but I think he might just be. But kidwoo and even Zedro stepped up to the plate for some humor homeruns. Nice!


I can't get this image out of my head...it's like a bad Will Ferrell flick.

"For example, if this was in person, you were in the parking lot having trouble with your brakes, a complete stranger came by to help you bleed and suggested you try a certain method....would you start laughing in his face, yelling "OWNED!!!" because you had already tried so?"


:nuts:
Hehe, great way to start the weekend, thanks guys!

 

[punkassean]

Holy sh!t...hard to type with tears running down face.
This is the funniest thread in a long long time. LOL

I had serious doubts about punkass's assertion that asshat, er, Paul, was funny but I think he might just be. But kidwoo and even Zedro stepped up to the plate for some humor homeruns. Nice!

Based on this I propose this very minor alteration to said asshat's avatar,

 

[The Kadvang]

I second the alteration. By the way, I was over the hill in SC today, and weird people live there. They scare me.

 

[punkassean]

I second the alteration. By the way, I was over the hill in SC today, and weird people live there. They scare me.

doooood, tell me about it! goddamn hippies!!!

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Sooo...
In an effort to see what might be wrong I decided to look at how the pucks engage themselves when you press the lever. I found out that one puck wasn't self adjusting. Hmmm.

"Maybe if I just mess with it a little*CRACK*"
I have now just broken the puck like the true dumbasshat that I am.

Not to worry, my roomate did the same thing to his old champagne caliper and it's sitting in the closet full of spare parts!

So now I have this jungle fever stylez caliper and I applied all suggestions to bleed, then rebleed until you bleed. Lo and behold it WORKS!

I am teh BESTAR!

Maybe I'll show you guys a pic when I find some batteries for my camera.
Thanks everybody.

 

[punkassean]

Integration is the one true answer....

Halleluejah!

 

[Curiouscaptian01]

A cool guy we build trail with solved a similar problem my friend had with his hayes... his question went something like
"Hey man what do you think is wrong with my brakes?"
and his reply "Whats it say on the lever body?"
"Hayes."
"Theres your problem."

hahahhahaha

 

[T-Pirate]

A cool guy we build trail with solved a similar problem my friend had with his hayes... his question went something like
"Hey man what do you think is wrong with my brakes?"
and his reply "Whats it say on the lever body?"
"Hayes."
"Theres your problem."

hahahhahaha

Oh suddenly we're better than our friends with our fancy juicy 7's....

At least I have a front brake.

My anger toward this comment can only be conveyed through this picture of chuck norris.

oooo faced!

 

[Curiouscaptian01]

Oh suddenly we're better than our friends with our fancy juicy 7's....

At least I have a front brake.

My anger toward this comment can only be conveyed through this picture of chuck norris.




oooo faced!

I fight back with more chuck... and yes I am now a fancy man after being so ghetto for 2 years, with my zip tied brakes and lack of brakes. Now that I have a job I wanted to get some nice working brakes. And my front brake is on the way....

EAT CHUCK NORRIS BITCH

TOTAL FACAL

 

[Curiouscaptian01]

To show my superior being I will post more Chuck Norris.

That is all for now

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Uhgh. I HATE Chuck Norris. Talk about complete Douchebag.

 

[The Kadvang]

Either of you nuts wanna explain to me the recent fetish of TP/CC for CN? It just doesn't do it for me.

 

[kidwoo]

Either of you nuts wanna explain to me the recent fetish of TP/CC for CN? It just doesn't do it for me.

That's the funniest thing to ever happen on ridemonkey for all of today.

 

[The Kadvang]

Ahhh, the entertainment.

 

[Swine]

damn, outta popcorn....

 

[T-Pirate]

Either of you nuts wanna explain to me the recent fetish of TP/CC for CN? It just doesn't do it for me.

Well he's only the most badass dude EVER.


That and for some reason I did a google image search on him and found that awesome picture of him with the guns, and decided he was going to be my role model from that point on. Him and the olsen twins.