I saw a funny bumper sticker this weekend:
"Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks your an a$$hole."
"Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks your an a$$hole."
Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional
- Thread starter I Are Baboon
- Start date
Perhaps we should have a multiple choice allegiance to accomodate all religions.
One nation . . .
Under God
Under Jehovah
Under Allah
Under Vishnu
Under Gaia
etc...
"Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks your an a$$hole."
What does it matter what everyone else thinks???
What does it matter what everyone else thinks???
Perhaps they will add that to the pledge.
Here here.
There was a move about 5 years ago to eliminate it altogether because groups of immigrants were offended at their children being asked to pledge allegience to our flag.
What the? You moved here jacka$$. If you still hold an alegience to goonygoogooland you should have stayed there.
M
M.W.
Guest
By saying that it's wrong to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance you are.
Say I'm an atheist. Every day I go to school and recite the Pledge of Allegience, and I have to acknowledge the existance of a god that I don't believe exists.
Now say I'm Christian. I go to school and recite the Pledge of Allegience after God has been removed from it. I'm not DENYING the existance of God, I'm just not mentioning God in the Pledge.
Perhaps we should have a multiple choice allegiance to accomodate all religions.
WHAT about the NON-religious ones?!!!!
WHAT about the NON-religious ones?!!!!
Ehhh...I support taking God out of the Pledge. I also support Freedom of Religion.
we're not pooping on the Christians!!!! the problem is that THE GOVERNMENT has an allegiance which recognizes GOD in which some people don't believe in. Ok? So...since there is a SEPARATION between CHURCH and STATE, the allegiance is bogus to begin with because it is "preaching" to those who don't believe in God.
You're arguing, why don't those who don't believe in God just not say God and everything will be all dandy. Well, it would be so easy had there been NO separation between the church and the state. But since the government clearly DEFINES that there IS a separation between the church and the state, it must remain neutral in the whole scheme of religion. So in order for the allegiance to work with this idea....it must take out God. Now you have an allegiance which no longer preaches by the GOVERNMENT, keyword, GOVERNMENT, not Damn True, Not Jesusfreak, not ibismojo. GOVERNMENT. Now those who do believe in God can say God in the allegiance and that would be their right to religion as they so see it.
Ehhh...I support taking God out of the Pledge. I also support Freedom of Religion.
So you wanna take religion OUT of the pledge, but still wanna support freedom of religion? So freedom of religion = NO religion????
So you wanna take religion OUT of the pledge, but still wanna support freedom of religion? So freedom of religion = NO religion????
Your last statement is fundamentally correct. But the overiding theme here is not the pledge of allegience it is the movement to eliminate all expression of faith.
M
M.W.
Guest
Same here. But I don't see how it tramples on anyone's right to freedom of religion by removing God from the Pledge. It just means that Christians are now being treated the same as other religions/atheists/agnostics/whatever. Why do they get THEIR god mentioned in it?
What if I want to say Zeus instead? I think Zeus should be in the Pledge instead of God. By not having Zeus, you're trampling on my freedom of religion!
No, I want to say Pop-Tarts! By not having pop tarts in it, you're taking away my right to say Pop-Tarts!
My cat's name is mittens.
These are two separate issues. You think the court that made this ruling wants to abolish freedom of religion? Freedom of religion does include no religion, if that is what you so choose.
Interesting - the history of the Pledge indicates that the statement "under God" was only added in the 1950's.....
The history of the Pledge of Allegiance begins in 1892, when a form of the pledge first appeared in a publication. Here are key events in the life of the pledge:
1892: The pledge debuts September 8 in the juvenile periodical The Youth's Companion. It reads: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justic for all.
1924: The words "the flag of the United States of America" are substituted for "my Flag."
1942: The government officially recognizes the Pledge of Allegiance.
1954: At the urging of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Congress passes legislation that adds the words "under God" to the pledge. The revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Source: Encyclopedia Britannica Inc.
The history of the Pledge of Allegiance begins in 1892, when a form of the pledge first appeared in a publication. Here are key events in the life of the pledge:
1892: The pledge debuts September 8 in the juvenile periodical The Youth's Companion. It reads: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justic for all.
1924: The words "the flag of the United States of America" are substituted for "my Flag."
1942: The government officially recognizes the Pledge of Allegiance.
1954: At the urging of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Congress passes legislation that adds the words "under God" to the pledge. The revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Source: Encyclopedia Britannica Inc.
There is a big difference between a personal expression of religious belief and the government (schools being part of said government) leading a ceremony that includes an overt reference to a religious figure.
Congress inserted the phrase "under God" into the Pledge in 1954. Take the phrase back out, and then express your personal beliefs how you wish. Wear your crosses, wear your pentagrams, wear an "Atheist and Proud" hat.....whatever floats your religious (or non-religious) boat.
Congress inserted the phrase "under God" into the Pledge in 1954. Take the phrase back out, and then express your personal beliefs how you wish. Wear your crosses, wear your pentagrams, wear an "Atheist and Proud" hat.....whatever floats your religious (or non-religious) boat.
No, I want to say Pop-Tarts! By not having pop tarts in it, you're taking away my right to say Pop-Tarts!
The pledge was WRITTEN in a time when religion still had "SOME" important role in most people's lives... It would be an insult to history alone to want to change the pledge to accomodate 21st century "beliefs" (or NON beliefs)
EDIT: b4 i get flamed i stand corrected
The pledge was WRITTEN in a time when religion still had "SOME" important role in most people's lives... It would be an insult to history alone to want to change the pledge to accomodate 21st century "beliefs" (or NON beliefs)
EDIT: b4 i get flamed i stand corrected
Isn't mittens plural, like a pair of cats.
Besides, dogs rule.
Wrongo, we added "under god" to the existing pledge during the 1950's.
This is all going TOO fast for me
"One nation, under $ ".
"One nation, under cha ching ".
I don't think it does elimnate their freedome of religion right. Removing God from the Pledge would eliminate the forcing of a God on people. People are still free to practice religion as they so choose.
Personally, I don't care that much either way. They could leave it as is, and I'd be fine with it. I said the Pledge a million times growing up, and was never offended by saying "Under God."
Spoon!
M
M.W.
Guest
By removing the reference to God, you're not dissallowing expression of faith. You're just stopping people who may not have faith in God from having to express their faith.
Nobody's saying you can't still express your faith. But INDIVIDUAL people should be allowed to CHOOSE if they want to or not. They shouldn't be forced to acknowledge something that they don't neccessarily believe in.
M
M.W.
Guest
Honestly I don't care either, given the fact that I'm not even from the US. I just don't see what's wrong with removing it. It doesn't HURT anyone, and it will probably make a fair number of people happier/more comfortable.
Z
Zonic Man
Guest
Don't worry, the 9th circut is notorious for being overturned by the Court. They WILL get overturned on that decision. Under the fact that separation doctrine goes to separating the gov. from endorsing SPECIFIC religions...I.E. no christmas tree on the County Seat's front law and a sign saying "Merry Xmas" with a nativity scene...but a xmas tree, with a star of david, and whatever they use for quamsa and a sign saying "Seasons Greetings" is okay.
basically, it is likely to be overturned on the theory that "God" is universal and does not support one particular religion, thus the state or government is not "sponsoring" one religion over another.
Damn 9th circut. When will they ever learn.
BTW: Court is 5-4 conservative/interpretationalist presently, with 2 more conservatives upcoming from Bush (Stevens is like a million years old and Ginsburg gets sick every other month).
basically, it is likely to be overturned on the theory that "God" is universal and does not support one particular religion, thus the state or government is not "sponsoring" one religion over another.
Damn 9th circut. When will they ever learn.
BTW: Court is 5-4 conservative/interpretationalist presently, with 2 more conservatives upcoming from Bush (Stevens is like a million years old and Ginsburg gets sick every other month).
I can't recall anyone being expelled from school for a failure to express faith or a lack thereof. Nobody is forcing the kids to say it. However there are innumerable cases like the one I mentioned before where kids have gotten in trouble for wearing crosses, holding prayer meetings on school grounds, even things as benign as wearing a t-shirt from a bible camp. But we are trying to force the kids that want to say it to stop so they don't offend someone.
Must not have gone to school in rural Idaho. Lots of examples here.....
Hmmm...interesting points, ZM. Good post.
meet me. I was suspended for not reciting the pledge on exactly these grounds [ I refused to say under god and I still do] in Jr High 1971, Santa Monica Unified School District.
M
M.W.
Guest
Honestly, I think that kicking kids out of school for wearing crosses and such, is complete sh*t. But if I'm gonna get in trouble for wearing my Bad Religion shirt, or kids are gonna get in trouble for wearing their Little Devil shirts, then it should be universal.
And what about the kids at my school who would yell at me and proclaim that I was going to hell and blah blah blah? I always got in trouble for arguing back at them, but they never got in trouble for claiming that I was going to be eternally damned, which I think is more offensive...
Thats nuts I did a quick check on Supreme court and Pledge and came up with this case
I never said it in school and I never had problems with any teachers or students. I even had some teachers that didn't say it.
Next thing you know, the song "God Bless America" will be banned!!
M
M.W.
Guest
On a similar note, I once had to stay in after class because I didn't sing the french anthem passionately enough. (I went through french immersion, and this one teacher always made us sing the french anthem. And I guess I wasn't inspired enough by the anthem of another country that I have no ties to for her...)
Those judges can go F*ck themselves. Don't like it? move back to your own f*ckin country.
Jeese, no wonder it was easy for these morons to destroy the WTC, our government let 'em.
M
M.W.
Guest
Yes, all Americans must believe in God...
and wallace never barred blacks from the front of a bus. Laws and Court rulings are generally ignored when the majority in a region feel passionatly about something. in the 70's Santa Monica was extremly right wing WASP, The general accepted practice for dealing with non conformance was to receive a "swat" [read hit with a large (up to 3 ft long) wooden paddle in front of your classmates.
A littlw weird that the more we remove God from our country the more it goes to hell..........
Why am I the minority?
Remember majority rules? when did the minority decide whats best for the majority? These folks need to be glad they have freedom living here!!!
My parents amd family did when they emigrated here...........
Why am I the minority?
Remember majority rules? when did the minority decide whats best for the majority? These folks need to be glad they have freedom living here!!!
My parents amd family did when they emigrated here...........
I don't think "God" (the name, not the deity) is universal. "God" is a Christian name for the supreme being, just like Allah is the Muslim name for the supreme being. In a sense, Christianity is being promoted over other religions. Looking at the time frame that the "under God" was added, it makes sense, the US was a Christian nation.
Should the "under God" be removed? Probably not, but there has to be a way to state a nation's faith in the Almighty without offending anyone...except I guess the Atheists since they don't believe in a supreme being. They're all going to Hell anyway so screw them. :devil:
Just kidding atheists! I don't believe in Hell either.
edit: it would be so much easier if people would realize that the Almighty probably doesn't even care what name we give It. They're all names for the same thing. IMHO