Will be in the market for a new DH frame in the coming season. Looking for a lightweight but still snappy plow bike? do they even exist. My DHR is definitely not a plow bike and riding tunnel every other week is quite painful on anything but a plow bike.
Plow bikes
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f-bomb.....assimilate...
tsk tsk tsk. maybe. ill have to ride vessypoos when it arrives then
For Tunnel anything rearward arch... B1, F1, Jedi, brooklyn, superco silencer when its out.
I rode tunnel on a F1 canfield and the Jedi and it picked up speed on the nasty.. The new banshee is rearward.
High single pivot will be rearward/verticle if you go rearward as long as it has a shorter chainstay it will corner like its on rails..
I rode tunnel on a F1 canfield and the Jedi and it picked up speed on the nasty.. The new banshee is rearward.
High single pivot will be rearward/verticle if you go rearward as long as it has a shorter chainstay it will corner like its on rails..
didnt realize the new banshee was rearward.... hmm that could be a very viable option
Maybe a Morewood? The Izimu grows like crazy in the chainstay so it absorbs stuff pretty well and is light and playful. The brake squat on certain features sucked, and so did the bottoming out on the seat tube...the new one's shouldn't do that though.
The latest version of the V10 is quite playful but at the same time plows over everything. I suck at line choice and end up just blasting through junk, yet I like jumping, whipping, drifting, manualing, sprinting and just having a blast and the V10 fits that perfectly.
Probably not a bad idea.
yeah v10 is not an option. i dont want to support SC in any way
Ya those things have some many weird things about them too. Sh*t bearings, weird ass linkage/geo setup, crazy leverage curve, etc.
dont agree with their business. and way overpriced for a taiwan frame
That was beyond vague...
$2700 is on the upper side of average for a Taiwan frame, but I guarantee they have a lot fewer problems than most "handmade in the US" frames. Have you ridden a newer V10?
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Morewood Makulu fits the bill nicely. It excells in the rough stuff and you can just monster truck through sections but it has great pop on jumps and you can throw it around and place it where ever you want. Its awesome am still shocked at how good it is. I had a Sunn Radical before which is a fairly nice bike but the Makulu does everything better.
Correction- FB-10, the countdown has begun!
Here is a fairly comprehensive list of very recent plow bikes:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230429&highlight=plow+bikes
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230429&highlight=plow+bikes
wasn't there a thread on this last week?
yup, see my post just above your.
No, he's looking for a tunnel specific plow bike. Geez...
snipedyup, see my post just above your.
Yup. They should be selling the bikes at Wal-Mart for $59.99 complete.
This whole Taiwan sucks, I won't buy anything from Taiwan thing is so ridiculous. The majority of bike now are made in Taiwan. I doubt there is a any noticeable difference in quality amongst high end bike both American made or Taiwanese. Taiwanese people aren't inherently sh*ttier welders. Most of these companies go to these Taiwanese plants and check the quality to ensure that there products are up to the standards there customers expect.
I could understand you disliking a company because of shady business practices but I wouldn't consider exporting fabrication to Taiwan shady.
Also if they don't charge so much for their bike how could they afford to back their World Cup Team.
Nearly every big bike manufacturer is producing out of tiawan add to that all the small component brands which are getting everything made out there. I think it would be almost impossible to build a bike without having some tiawan made parts on them. Having seen and heard some of the issues people have had with some American hand built premium brands. I think santacruz have a higher level of qc. I do think there a little overpriced but that wouldn't put me off buying one.
plow bike roundup here: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3428888
What year DHR do you have!
Have you had any tuning work done on your Suspension, or do you just want a change!
I know the DHR is more of a pop it jump it over stuff bike, I have an 09 Go-Ride special, I absolutely love, I'm still dialing it in but much more settled the rear was easy, my Fork is sweet but I'm looking for the last bit of performance I can.
But with the 07-09 series nothing some good tuning work and maybe depending on what type of sus ya have will have it pretty smooth, it may not be a super plow bike but definitely one of the best of both with some TLC if older then the drill mod may help some.
Otherwise I would have sug V10 and like Bullcrew maybe the Jedi, Leg V2.
Mine around 38lbs and I notice even in my weak arse broken state I can ride allot longer just because its light but strong still and dosen't work me over, I do try for the pop ride style, but I still plow when I'm tired I just let the sus take over and hang on for dear life
Have you had any tuning work done on your Suspension, or do you just want a change!
I know the DHR is more of a pop it jump it over stuff bike, I have an 09 Go-Ride special, I absolutely love, I'm still dialing it in but much more settled the rear was easy, my Fork is sweet but I'm looking for the last bit of performance I can.
But with the 07-09 series nothing some good tuning work and maybe depending on what type of sus ya have will have it pretty smooth, it may not be a super plow bike but definitely one of the best of both with some TLC if older then the drill mod may help some.
Otherwise I would have sug V10 and like Bullcrew maybe the Jedi, Leg V2.
Mine around 38lbs and I notice even in my weak arse broken state I can ride allot longer just because its light but strong still and dosen't work me over, I do try for the pop ride style, but I still plow when I'm tired I just let the sus take over and hang on for dear life
So much truth to that, LOLI still plow when I'm tired I just let the sus take over and hang on for dear life
Actually 4 shuttles at tunnel/CS and finally just let go, wentover the bars and landed in the rocks. Laid there for 15 minutes not moving too tired and couldnt hang on anymore..... What a fun day though........
On the US/Taiwan thing:
It seems it's gotten to the point for just about every frame maker that the price of making frames in house, in the US, is just unrealistic. The companies who still do this are either new and willing to take less profit to build brand interest, charging first born son prices, or just naive. All for a product that is not noticeably better. In fact, I would wager that pressure from this truth causes US fab companies to cut corners wherever possible... cough intense cough ellsworth
High end Taiwan fab is good enough at this point that most companies don't even consider it a risk to QC. The only real reason to buy a US frame is "buy local" brand patriotism. I'm not against this, but denying a global economy won't make it disappear.
It seems it's gotten to the point for just about every frame maker that the price of making frames in house, in the US, is just unrealistic. The companies who still do this are either new and willing to take less profit to build brand interest, charging first born son prices, or just naive. All for a product that is not noticeably better. In fact, I would wager that pressure from this truth causes US fab companies to cut corners wherever possible... cough intense cough ellsworth
High end Taiwan fab is good enough at this point that most companies don't even consider it a risk to QC. The only real reason to buy a US frame is "buy local" brand patriotism. I'm not against this, but denying a global economy won't make it disappear.
Plow Bike. Now thats a word that needs to go away.
i didnt say i didnt want a taiwan made frame. i have ridden the new v10's and just dont like them. i have a 09 dhr, and tunnel/CS just arent hop and skip trails. even the pros just plow.
Man, not saying you should buy a V10, but you have all the wrong reasons not to:
1) Most high end DH frames from Taiwan cost the same or more (Banshee, Revolt, etc are all more expensive).
2) The V10 is not built in Taiwan. (Neither is the stigmata, the jackal?, and one or two others).
I think the V10 is a fabulous bike, very durable, and is certainly a class leader in performance, but I also won't be buying one as it's not the right bike for me. Feels "right" for a lot of people, including some close friends, but if its not for you, it's not for you.
My next bike is a Makulu. I haven't ridden one on trail yet, but based on what you've said you're looking for, it sounds like a pretty great fit. It's a single-pivot with good rearward arch, but it has that long shock and a great linkage to really refine everything. Dirt says it's one of the two best bikes they've tested! (That and the K-Nine) I'm very excited for mine. Also, they used to be ridiculously expensive and hard to get in the US, but they've got a new US distributor, so the prices are now a lot lower and there are some shops offering some pretty aggressive deals (more for completes than frames - frames are probably MSRP protected) to get the bikes out there on the market.
I wouldn't dedicate your search for a bike to find a frame to ride one trail or area. Looking for something with good square edge performance is a great goal, but I'd think it makes more sense to get something well rounded. There's a lot of bikes that fit this goal - and like said above, good rear-ward arch and suspension that isn't too progressive will certainly help.
Finally, I used to rock an 08 DHR, and I still miss it. It wasn't the best on the square edge, but I started running it with a lighter spring and more low-speed comp and it definitely helped a lot when riding tons of Whistler laps (I had like 30+ Whistler days - focused on the rocky trails, during 2008). It's certainly not the best, but it did a good job and it was fun as hell everywhere else.
1) Most high end DH frames from Taiwan cost the same or more (Banshee, Revolt, etc are all more expensive).
2) The V10 is not built in Taiwan. (Neither is the stigmata, the jackal?, and one or two others).
I think the V10 is a fabulous bike, very durable, and is certainly a class leader in performance, but I also won't be buying one as it's not the right bike for me. Feels "right" for a lot of people, including some close friends, but if its not for you, it's not for you.
My next bike is a Makulu. I haven't ridden one on trail yet, but based on what you've said you're looking for, it sounds like a pretty great fit. It's a single-pivot with good rearward arch, but it has that long shock and a great linkage to really refine everything. Dirt says it's one of the two best bikes they've tested! (That and the K-Nine) I'm very excited for mine. Also, they used to be ridiculously expensive and hard to get in the US, but they've got a new US distributor, so the prices are now a lot lower and there are some shops offering some pretty aggressive deals (more for completes than frames - frames are probably MSRP protected) to get the bikes out there on the market.
I wouldn't dedicate your search for a bike to find a frame to ride one trail or area. Looking for something with good square edge performance is a great goal, but I'd think it makes more sense to get something well rounded. There's a lot of bikes that fit this goal - and like said above, good rear-ward arch and suspension that isn't too progressive will certainly help.
Finally, I used to rock an 08 DHR, and I still miss it. It wasn't the best on the square edge, but I started running it with a lighter spring and more low-speed comp and it definitely helped a lot when riding tons of Whistler laps (I had like 30+ Whistler days - focused on the rocky trails, during 2008). It's certainly not the best, but it did a good job and it was fun as hell everywhere else.
A plow bike by definition is a bike with over 8 inches of travel, a plush setup and a sh.tty rider. In theory any bike could be a plow bike if you meet the requirments.
I assume you mean "business practices", and I am still genuinely curious what the issue is. Did they wrong you in some way??
You do realize that most of the products coming out of taiwan far exceed american made stuff in quality, and value, right?
haha I hear ya, ouch rock landings not my fav! Always hard to say to one more run, it will be the last just one moreSo much truth to that, LOL
Actually 4 shuttles at tunnel/CS and finally just let go, wentover the bars and landed in the rocks. Laid there for 15 minutes not moving too tired and couldnt hang on anymore..... What a fun day though........
I just tell myself elbows out keep low, hang on and don't hit the panic button, def fun, had a similar day recently at our Nats track and shuttled bused all day no rocks though, my bud went down hard last run of the day well that ended it, looks like a Hematoba on his ankle now
I'd add to that, "a rearward axle in the first half of travel". Compared to a more vertical path it really does soak up bumps. The problem is how to do this without ruining pedaling and I think the idler equipped bikes do it best.
Ignoring weight and complexity a high single pivot with idler, linkage controlled shock rate, and floating brake should be the ultimate bike for a rough course.
You've pretty much just described the bike I'm working on right now.
It's super linear. The geometry of this design is pretty standard stuff- this is with a 2.7 front tire/2.5 rear tire and 7" front travel (since that's what my Super T fork is) and 8" rear travel-Head angle 65.7
Wheelbase 44.5"
Chainstay 16.5"
BB height 13.78"
TT length 23.5"
The second I was done with it I thought "well, that pretty much resembles a more linear Silencer minus the jackshaft." The Silencer is also lower and much slacker (and probably a fair bit lighter!) but it'll be fun to build regardless. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...
I did draw up another version that has the spring and damper mounted separate of each other so you could have say a linear to progressive wheel rate but have a linear or even regressive damper. Could be fun to experiment with...
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I really don't know anything about the shock rate on a Katipoo (if it is linear or progressive), but that is kind of what your frame reminds me of......and I mean that as a compliment. I like these designs and they seem to be getting more and more popular. I know Cortina was working on something very similar too but the photos of that came out two years ago so who really knows if it will ever hit the market or not. Anyway, post up some photos as you are working on it. Good luck on the build.You've pretty much just described the bike I'm working on right now.
Head angle 65.7
Wheelbase 44.5"
Chainstay 16.5"
BB height 13.78"
TT length 23.5"
The second I was done with it I thought "well, that pretty much resembles a more linear Silencer minus the jackshaft." The Silencer is also lower and much slacker (and probably a fair bit lighter!) but it'll be fun to build regardless. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...
I did draw up another version that has the spring and damper mounted separate of each other so you could have say a linear to progressive spring rate but have a linear or even regressive damper. Could be fun to experiment with...
Regressive leverage curves are retarded. I can't believe anyone puts them on anything anymore. The pedaling trade off isn't even worth it on an xc bike IME.
That is because you can't/shouldn't do regressive unless you have an extremely progressive air spring. Regarding coil springs that's why I said you need to separate the spring and damper- so you can still have a linear or progressive wheel rate. The only other way to do it is with a progressively wound coil or regressive damper valving (which doesn't exist in bike dampers as far as I know.) The last time I saw a progressively wound coil spring (tapered wire) was when Porsche did it in the 70's- they were Ti springs and were insanely expensive.