I don't know about you guys, but all the so called jump parks are limited to 3' lips. maybe 4' if you're lucky. Mountain bikes need bigger jumps than that just to get the whole bike on the take-off. I will keep building secret jump trails, cause all the other public parks are gay. The U.S. is to sue happy, I'm moving to Canada. Later
Plowed
- Thread starter jeepmauler
- Start date
Huckermatt said:
wait for me!!! Ill move too!
There's a tear in my beer cuz i'm cryin for ya dear! 
Get a car, drive to places that are not having problems with jumping, sorry but the eastside if full of rich yuppie's who have nothing better to do than complain about whatever. Just about all mt. bike trails started out as illegal trails, animal trail, or logging trail, everybody has to jump thru the hoops, and do what we can do to make things how we want it. Yes all the political stuff is crap, but you can't cry it away, just gotta be patient and do what we can do so the youngins in the next ten or so years won't have to go thru so much b.s..
i just hate to hear frustration, like oh screw it i can't have everything my way kinda attitude. it's the way it's always been, but it's not the way it always has to be.....
Get a car, drive to places that are not having problems with jumping, sorry but the eastside if full of rich yuppie's who have nothing better to do than complain about whatever. Just about all mt. bike trails started out as illegal trails, animal trail, or logging trail, everybody has to jump thru the hoops, and do what we can do to make things how we want it. Yes all the political stuff is crap, but you can't cry it away, just gotta be patient and do what we can do so the youngins in the next ten or so years won't have to go thru so much b.s..
i just hate to hear frustration, like oh screw it i can't have everything my way kinda attitude. it's the way it's always been, but it's not the way it always has to be.....
Yea what he said! I have been building stuff in the dirt (other peoples dirt) longer than some of you have been alive (oh GodSkookum said:There's a tear in my beer cuz i'm cryin for ya dear!
Get a car, drive to places that are not having problems with jumping, sorry but the eastside if full of rich yuppie's who have nothing better to do than complain about whatever. Just about all mt. bike trails started out as illegal trails, animal trail, or logging trail, everybody has to jump thru the hoops, and do what we can do to make things how we want it. Yes all the political stuff is crap, but you can't cry it away, just gotta be patient and do what we can do so the youngins in the next ten or so years won't have to go thru so much b.s..
i just hate to hear frustration, like oh screw it i can't have everything my way kinda attitude. it's the way it's always been, but it's not the way it always has to be.....
) and have felt the same way you guys feel many times more than I care to think about. I remember being able to ride pretty much anywhere I wanted anytime and that has pretty much changed. However I will say the quality of the places I get to ride now is much better than in my earlier years. The reason it is better is because of people that stayed, were patient, and worked the details out with those who have the power (and responsibility) to say yes or no. Go ahead and go if you like, looks like pretty soon everyone who gives up here will be Canadians (not that that is bad). However with so many new peeps (new Canadians) riding and digging and building and getting hurt (sometimes on other people's dirt), how long do you think it will be before things start getting closed off there too? Then where ya gonna go next? And then? And then? Oh but it will be cool cause there will be more room for the peeps that stayed here and stuck it out. Seriously, stay and help, take a break once in awhile but don't give up this place so easily. Remember, the grass may be greener on the other side but that's only true until there are to many and the grass gets trampled. 
:evil:
Land ownership liability aside (valid point mind you), I think a point being missed is demonstrated in through the sport of Skateboarding. Skateboarding is in many ways similar to us and it is most likely not a sport that is going to go away. I think that cities who ignore the sport and ignore the kids interests probably dont realize that the riders 'end up with a city full of kids hitting every rail slide, waxing and scraping every cement ledge , and end up with pools of blood and liability at the end of every stair gap.
I dont think the ignoring and arm-behind-the-back tactics will work with bike-riders either. While we are most likely slightly older, clearly a bit better then our brethren, the cities who DO embrace Skateboarding for example (aka the skate parks around Seattle), perhaps the answer to preventing complete park closures, illegal trails and otherwise trail stealing, is to simply provide a couple of locations around town that people who want to huck, drop and ride skinnys can ride.
Make them officially "lawyer free zones"...
( yeah right )
Make signs that clearly state that its the parents job to actually act like parents and tell thier kids wether they can or cannot ride at the site ( and therefore accepting all liablility ). Swimming pools have these same rules, why not State or City Trails?
As for adults, make a simple helmet rule, and a disclosure that states that if your an idiot, and you dont know it, then you are responsible for your own idiodic choices.
If I crash while CHOOSING to ride my bike, it IS my own fault. Does not matter if the dirt was slippery. Does not matter if a sticker bush got out of control and scratched my pretty legs. Does not matter if the PTA, OSHA, EPA, and King county park commisioner has not approved each root and twist in the trail.
Oh, second opinion, Maintainence is for vollenteers and the people who use the land (BBTC) and therefore do not need paid park staff funding approval before things get done.
Pardon my mis-spells BTW.
Thoughts anyone?
I dont think the ignoring and arm-behind-the-back tactics will work with bike-riders either. While we are most likely slightly older, clearly a bit better then our brethren, the cities who DO embrace Skateboarding for example (aka the skate parks around Seattle), perhaps the answer to preventing complete park closures, illegal trails and otherwise trail stealing, is to simply provide a couple of locations around town that people who want to huck, drop and ride skinnys can ride.
Make them officially "lawyer free zones"...
( yeah right ) Make signs that clearly state that its the parents job to actually act like parents and tell thier kids wether they can or cannot ride at the site ( and therefore accepting all liablility ). Swimming pools have these same rules, why not State or City Trails?
As for adults, make a simple helmet rule, and a disclosure that states that if your an idiot, and you dont know it, then you are responsible for your own idiodic choices.
If I crash while CHOOSING to ride my bike, it IS my own fault. Does not matter if the dirt was slippery. Does not matter if a sticker bush got out of control and scratched my pretty legs. Does not matter if the PTA, OSHA, EPA, and King county park commisioner has not approved each root and twist in the trail.
Oh, second opinion, Maintainence is for vollenteers and the people who use the land (BBTC) and therefore do not need paid park staff funding approval before things get done.
Pardon my mis-spells BTW.
Thoughts anyone?
The one thing about the skateboard paralell is that skate boarders are still "hitting every rail slide, waxing and scraping every cement ledge , and ending up with pools of blood and liability at the end of every stair gap.", even with all the public parks out there. When i was a big time skater we had a city park and it didnt stop us from wrecking the Shilo hotels cement benches......
Like i said before i dont really discourage the building of illegal trails, ive enjoyed many an illegal trail in my day..... I just dont wanna hear anyone moaning about them getting torn out.
Like i said before i dont really discourage the building of illegal trails, ive enjoyed many an illegal trail in my day..... I just dont wanna hear anyone moaning about them getting torn out.
hey I resemble thatboxxerace said:
:mumble:boxxerace said:Make them officially "lawyer free zones"...
you have pretty legs?boxxerace said:
:evil:
Good point Oly. Whenever I go to the shore, there are still riders hitting up the street for some urban toys. ( even though the riding right up the hill is sick )
Also, re: skateboarding... I think inner city is actually part of the sport. Not so much for riding ( except trials ) .
Also, re: skateboarding... I think inner city is actually part of the sport. Not so much for riding ( except trials ) .
Boxxer, you got that last one all wrong. Just try to do your own maintenance in a park and see the sh!t fly from the parks department.
Everything has to be approved. (Well, let's be reasonable. Picking up some derailleur grabbers would'nt warrant a permit.)
I think most mountain bikers would be surprised at the answers they get from parks folks if they just bothered to ask. But, make sure you're backing up what you plan to do with either some experience or they might shut you down.
I've seen far too many trail "repairs" done by people who meant well over the years to know that most don't have a clue about trail design and wear.
The IMBA website has lots of good info and the trailbuilding manual even has freeride info in it now. Solid stuff for long term use.
Lastly, hoping some other group will do the work for you as if that's all they have to do is ridiculous. As with many sports, less than 5% of "active" mountain bikers ever lift a shovel to do legal, approved trailwork. No wonder most land managers still look at us funny when we say we want to sit in meetings and are willing to be patient in order to get one small stinkin' piece of legal trail. If you want to help. Get on board for the Colonnades project under I-5. Sure, it might not be the best for you, but you'll learn a lot about the process and building right.
However, you are right about the skatepark theme. It's already playing out in the changing tide of acceptance for mountain bike parks. Even in the states.
Everything has to be approved. (Well, let's be reasonable. Picking up some derailleur grabbers would'nt warrant a permit.)
I think most mountain bikers would be surprised at the answers they get from parks folks if they just bothered to ask. But, make sure you're backing up what you plan to do with either some experience or they might shut you down.
I've seen far too many trail "repairs" done by people who meant well over the years to know that most don't have a clue about trail design and wear.
The IMBA website has lots of good info and the trailbuilding manual even has freeride info in it now. Solid stuff for long term use.
Lastly, hoping some other group will do the work for you as if that's all they have to do is ridiculous. As with many sports, less than 5% of "active" mountain bikers ever lift a shovel to do legal, approved trailwork. No wonder most land managers still look at us funny when we say we want to sit in meetings and are willing to be patient in order to get one small stinkin' piece of legal trail. If you want to help. Get on board for the Colonnades project under I-5. Sure, it might not be the best for you, but you'll learn a lot about the process and building right.
However, you are right about the skatepark theme. It's already playing out in the changing tide of acceptance for mountain bike parks. Even in the states.
Borneo,
I might have tried to express to many ideas all at once, and therefore did not come across correctly,
Re: approval for trail maintenence, Yes, of course prior approval before any "trail maintenence". AND only through management groups like IMBA, or the several others. Some trails even have clubs dedicated to the management, clearing deadfall, fixing erosion, etc. etc. etc.
The point I was trying to make is, that we dont always need paid park staff, with presidential funding approval, federal grants, and paid parking at the trailhead ( for land we already own - We I use as tax paying citizens, not MTB'ers. )
I am not suggesting that there should not be an oversight person, or persons. I just think we can get more work done with people who are passionate about the sport, and are given the choice of either a poorly maintained trail ( or closed one - remember the oversight ) OR getting there butts up and shoveling for a few hours a month.
Instead, we have park rangers ( not all mind you ) who have this sticky thorn in there side, and probably frustrated, because all these "kids" are creating more work for them dealing with built trails, or just some dirt piled up out of the way.
Re: Colandas Park in Seattle, I have kept up with things for along time. I think the first time I heard about it was when I was working at a bike shop, like 3 or 4 years ago. More recently, the people responsible for the creation of the bike portion, have been posting requests for ideas, etc. Sounds like they know what they want to do.
I think the park is a great idea, and like you said, probably not that interesting for what I like, but none-the-less is most worthwhile. I think its silly to have 10000zillion baseball diamonds, and not one official trail nearby. And this is a great answer to it.
I was also unaware that they were allowing "civilians" do any work at the park ( other than idea expression ) .
OH, later on yesterday, I saw the other link for that official bike jump park in B-ham. Even the mayor approved it. How cool - Props! If b-ham can do it, then maybe in like 25 years, Seattle can do it.
I might have tried to express to many ideas all at once, and therefore did not come across correctly,
Re: approval for trail maintenence, Yes, of course prior approval before any "trail maintenence". AND only through management groups like IMBA, or the several others. Some trails even have clubs dedicated to the management, clearing deadfall, fixing erosion, etc. etc. etc.
The point I was trying to make is, that we dont always need paid park staff, with presidential funding approval, federal grants, and paid parking at the trailhead ( for land we already own - We I use as tax paying citizens, not MTB'ers. )
I am not suggesting that there should not be an oversight person, or persons. I just think we can get more work done with people who are passionate about the sport, and are given the choice of either a poorly maintained trail ( or closed one - remember the oversight ) OR getting there butts up and shoveling for a few hours a month.
Instead, we have park rangers ( not all mind you ) who have this sticky thorn in there side, and probably frustrated, because all these "kids" are creating more work for them dealing with built trails, or just some dirt piled up out of the way.
Re: Colandas Park in Seattle, I have kept up with things for along time. I think the first time I heard about it was when I was working at a bike shop, like 3 or 4 years ago. More recently, the people responsible for the creation of the bike portion, have been posting requests for ideas, etc. Sounds like they know what they want to do.
I think the park is a great idea, and like you said, probably not that interesting for what I like, but none-the-less is most worthwhile. I think its silly to have 10000zillion baseball diamonds, and not one official trail nearby. And this is a great answer to it.
I was also unaware that they were allowing "civilians" do any work at the park ( other than idea expression ) .
OH, later on yesterday, I saw the other link for that official bike jump park in B-ham. Even the mayor approved it. How cool - Props! If b-ham can do it, then maybe in like 25 years, Seattle can do it.
Cleared up and I agree. Thanks!
Colonnades is 100% volunteer labor from what I know from insiders. The city and the WSDOT is giving the approval for the plans which are/were based on rider feedback. (No, they quashed the "crack addict step up jumps".)
But, when the time comes to break ground(I thought it was this month.), it will virtually be all done by riders, for riders. So, folks like trailhacker can get their subtle nuances into the system forever. Very cool.
Nope, it's likely that I may never ride there. It's just not convenient for an Eastsider. But, it has the potential to be a BIKE mag or otherwise cover project like Vietnam for the NEMBA crowd. Precident setting for other projects. Like the B'ham DJs are.
As for stuff popping up and subsequently getting torn down like the thread started. That will continue for a very long, long time. Heck, they're on summer vacation and don't have anything better to do. Frustrating for rangers, park employees and all. But, better than hanging out front of the 7-11 asking me to buy 'em beer and cigarettes...
Colonnades is 100% volunteer labor from what I know from insiders. The city and the WSDOT is giving the approval for the plans which are/were based on rider feedback. (No, they quashed the "crack addict step up jumps".)
But, when the time comes to break ground(I thought it was this month.), it will virtually be all done by riders, for riders. So, folks like trailhacker can get their subtle nuances into the system forever. Very cool.
Nope, it's likely that I may never ride there. It's just not convenient for an Eastsider. But, it has the potential to be a BIKE mag or otherwise cover project like Vietnam for the NEMBA crowd. Precident setting for other projects. Like the B'ham DJs are.
As for stuff popping up and subsequently getting torn down like the thread started. That will continue for a very long, long time. Heck, they're on summer vacation and don't have anything better to do. Frustrating for rangers, park employees and all. But, better than hanging out front of the 7-11 asking me to buy 'em beer and cigarettes...