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Pole Bikes hates Ridemonkey

toodles

Turbo Monkey
Aug 24, 2004
2,596
758
Australia
You're aware there's very little cost involved in adding a line to geo charts to include the measurement from the BB to the centre of the top of the HT? And it's a straight line - no need for plumb bobs, spirit levels, protractors etc. And you get a measurement of the hand-foot spacing that doesn't require the bars, head tube and BB measurements to be identical?

Just because downtube worked for you is great - I've already stated how that measurement can be affected by HT length etc so how a bike feels for a rider size wise is more effectively and consistently measured to the top of the steerer. I agree downtube measurements are better than a blind guess, but unless you steer your bike by holding the lower fork crown you can be led astray by other factors.

Nevertheless, I hardly see bike manufacturers accommodating either of us by including these measurements. At least "spread" can be determined through reach and stack. Hell even DT measurement can be if you're handy with trig. All I'm saying is that for me sizing a bike and FC weight distribution is more based on where my hands and feet are going to be than where the lower steerer bearing sits in relation to the BB.

However all the maths in the world didn't stop me buying a Kona so what do I know.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
2,700
717
UK
I've already stated how that measurement can be affected by HT length etc
You've stated it. Yes. You've not conceived it's not a hand to foot measurement. It's an axix to axis measurement and as such way less flawed than your random height (determined by headtube length) from crown race distance.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
2,700
717
UK
Because if the inconsistency of head tube lengths. Spread is bollocks

Ie. A short AF toptube with a humongous headtube can give exactly the same "spread" as a long frame with a tiny head tube.
Whereas fork axle to crown lengths are fairly consistent per genre travel/fork/ bike/frame
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
5,809
1,600
Ottawa, Canada
I'm just gonna go ahead and point out that Steve said "spread" is the measurement of bottom bracket to handlebars. So it's not a fixed point when you buy a bike. if I understand correctly, the only relevant use of that measurement is to establish what he calls the "looping" and "endo" angles. I'd say those are the angles that would be useful when trying to choose a bike to see if it has a bias towards climbing, descending, or is neutral. but those numbers aren't provided by any frame manufacturer that I can think of, so this is mostly an academic exercise. but it sure helps understand the importance of geometry!
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,992
1,680
In my pants

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,736
139
vancouver eastside
I'm just saying downtube measurements aren't any better unless the HT length remains fairly similar.
IMO - head tube length on the current crop of modern bikes is irrelevant to the fit / FC analysis. they're all short enough that (with very few exceptions) spacers are always used to achieve desired stem height. head tube lengths rarely diverge enough that a bar rise change is required between designs to achieve proper fit. given that the HTA's are going to be similar between the bikes in question, and the stem height is going to be set at the same position, the only meaningful variable left to consider is the DT length. there may be exceptions, but i think the ability to make meaningful / measurable comparisons on the shop floor is generally a good one.
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,128
482
Given the thread, the spread for the new Pole bike is therefore: sqrt(plenty^2 + 435,600). I like that!
I am glad that trigonometry is not involved in this one because cos(slack) may be a little tricky to calculate.
they may be using logrhythms.

But I would almost bet money somebody from there is watching this thread saying "see, that's why we don't publish numbers".

For the record, I will continue to publish geo, but not linkage......
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,419
291
Vorsprung's Tuesday Tune video on
"spread"? FFS! it's the eggs or sucking.
i've always thought that trated reasoning.
Yeah! Good thing there is a nice and reach.
center of bb to center of bottom egardless of the measured stack.
Good thing my metal tape measure isn't fucking bent, eh @rockofullr

Downtube means everything I need it to. no matter what height you have your bars they always spin and no spacers.

Read what @xy9ne said. He put it more politely than I would but it's the same as I've done for decades.
your feet and stance pivot around the BB centre axis
.
I agree its very similar to the downtube gh.
You're missing the point Toodles.
Both fit.
Thats exactly my point.I explained earlier - sure stuff.
only if you're r don't you think?
when I for good fast road/racebng an mtb frame
Nope. That is at the same bar height measured from .
which is why i said "dtheir size guide.
You're aware there's very little cost worked for you is great - blind g.
You've stated it. .
Because if the tiny
I'm just gonna go ahead and point out that Steve said "spread" is the measurement of bottometry!
Welcome aboard
You guys ever hear of Pythagorean theorem?

42 fucking post argued over a straight line between 2 points. Come to find out that they're practically agreeing with each other!
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,419
291
Given the thread, the spread for the new Pole bike is therefore: sqrt(plenty^2 + 435,600). I like that!
I am glad that trigonometry is not involved in this one because cos(slack) may be a little tricky to calculate.
I'm waiting for the trail of forks becoming the next part of some bullshit geo equation. That will leave the lizards entertained for WEEKS!
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,992
1,680
In my pants
You guys ever hear of Pythagorean theorem?

42 fucking post argued over a straight line between 2 points. Come to find out that they're practically agreeing with each other!
I never argued with anybody.

Keep in mind you're talking about Gary here. He yells at paint chips.
 

Scrub

Turbo Monkey
Feb 4, 2003
1,356
19
NOR CAL, Sac/CoCo County
A Machine was personally spotted and parking lot demo'd at a Northern California resort over the summer. You guys are arguing about #'s, the real question to be asked is if they have found a better bonding agent to keep the 2 halves from coming apart.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,028
1,450
AK
A Machine was personally spotted and parking lot demo'd at a Northern California resort over the summer. You guys are arguing about #'s, the real question to be asked is if they have found a better bonding agent to keep the 2 halves from coming apart.
I thought there was something you could do with metal to keep two halves together. If I remember, it involves heat, sometimes another compound where it's joined. I think my foes had this.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,325
46
MA
A Machine was personally spotted and parking lot demo'd at a Northern California resort over the summer. You guys are arguing about #'s, the real question to be asked is if they have found a better bonding agent to keep the 2 halves from coming apart.
Moar screws?
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
2,259
163
A Machine was personally spotted and parking lot demo'd at a Northern California resort over the summer. You guys are arguing about #'s, the real question to be asked is if they have found a better bonding agent to keep the 2 halves from coming apart.
Better than what, the stuff Coda/MM used?
 

Scrub

Turbo Monkey
Feb 4, 2003
1,356
19
NOR CAL, Sac/CoCo County
Whatever they used didn't hold up. The bolts were torqued to spec but the bonding agent/glue failed and the bike actually rode like it had rear steer. I'm sure it was a "manufacturing defect" but still, at least include a bottle of glue in the box...
dork bike.jpg
 

joeg

I have some obvious biases
Jul 20, 2011
190
66
Santa Cruz CA
the only thing worse than gluing two halves of a bike together would be to machine the halves from billet, ensuring there is no preferential working of the material to have grain structure. Top it all off putting all the shock force perpendicular to a tiny top tube. Pole's PR strategy is like a trump tweet for the forum crowd. Not releasing the geometry chart? fodder for outrage/intrigue.

Funny shit if they don't believe it all. If they do it goes to pure comedy.
 

rollertoaster

Monkey
Aug 7, 2007
729
174
Douglassville , PA
Whatever they used didn't hold up. The bolts were torqued to spec but the bonding agent/glue failed and the bike actually rode like it had rear steer. I'm sure it was a "manufacturing defect" but still, at least include a bottle of glue in the box...
View attachment 132032
My first frame definitely had a bad glue mix. I had glue oozing from the seams and they sent a replacement frame (new front, old style rear).

That replacement rear did not last long as it was from the first run of them.

Now I have a new style rear end. We'll see how long it lasts, I don't get to ride park this time of year so I don't think I'll be putting it through its paces for a while.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,028
1,450
AK
My first frame definitely had a bad glue mix. I had glue oozing from the seams and they sent a replacement frame (new front, old style rear).

That replacement rear did not last long as it was from the first run of them.

Now I have a new style rear end. We'll see how long it lasts, I don't get to ride park this time of year so I don't think I'll be putting it through its paces for a while.
They should team up with Jan and release the Karpole.
 

sethimus

scroll all you want!
Feb 5, 2006
2,208
190
not in Whistler anymore :/
"spread"? FFS! it's the fucking downtube measurement. You know... an actual real life non virtual measurable tube that happens to connect the crank and steering axes and what I've been using to compare bikes sizes for decades.

I generally like Steve's videos and articles but this was a lot like being taught to suck eggs with a lot of terminology I wouldn't ever use to describe eggs or sucking.
can you confirm that "spread" and downtube length is the same on this bike?


(your argument is invalid)
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
2,700
717
UK
Looking at that thing my tape measure just became impotent

You know... an actual real life non virtual measurable tube that happens to connect the crank and steering axes
Downtube length is still manually measurable on that abomination. BB axle bolt center to lower head tube centre. is still the downtube length no matter what crazy straw the builder decided to use for his downtube.
downtube length is a completely different measurement from "spread".
Spread is still useless to me.
 
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