[Silver]

I'm getting tired of the talking heads screaming at each other on the news, and I ****ing hate blogs, so I figured I'd throw this out here (not wished to debate anything about Schiavo herself...just the ramifications of what has happened in the last week.)

I think this might be the end of the Christian Right and the Republican Party's alliance. Dobson and co. must be getting awfully frustrated that Bush seems to throw them the occasional small bone without actually doing much for them. Much like the Green crowd has realized that the Democrats aren't going to do much for them besides take them for granted and pay lip service to them, I think we may have another party in the near future. Because now the bile seems to be directed at judges in general, not just the "liberal activist judges."

The secular business arm of the Republican Party is pissed off as well. Are they going to be able to patch things up?

It'll be interesting, as always...

 

[Changleen]

You can't please everyone all the time.

It'd be great if the republicans did disassociate with the christian right. That'd help remove part of their political voice and they can go back to being the silent minority(?) they were throughout the 80s and early 90s. The world would be a better place for it.

 

[Silver]

You can't please everyone all the time.

It'd be great if the republicans did disassociate with the christian right. That'd help remove part of their political voice and they can go back to being the silent minority(?) they were throughout the 80s and early 90s. The world would be a better place for it.

That's not going to happen. What I think might is that the Christian Right will break off from the Republican Party and go it on their own. Right now, the Republicans are more than happy with the situation. It's like having a big houseparty, and you invite the rich kid who brings a keg. You don't have to pay attention to him once the keg is tapped if you're the only party in town that will have him.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i dont think that is a likely posibility.

the republicans wont let the christian right steer away from them, as they are stone that tips the balance for them...

they will definately put up a fight before letting them go... just like the party host would set up a bimbo with the keg dude at the least threat of him leaving the party....

and seeing the republicans have a lot of "bimbos", and the christian right is so needy for them... i dont think the CR would jump of the wagon into the wilderness if that means to get less bimbos than when in the party...

 

[Silver]

Yeah, but Dobson isn't getting lucky with the bimbo...and the GOP is running out of excuses why she won't put out.

 

[ummbikes]

I have to be honest if not for the neo-con and religious right segments of the GOP having so much power, hense contol of the party I would be a Republican.

Freedom, liberty, fiscally responsible government, small federal government, common sense, these attributes don't currently define either major party. The Republicans could get closer to these attributes quicker than the Dem's.

So untill then I'll "waste" my vote on the Libertarians.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Freedom, liberty, fiscally responsible government, small federal government, common sense, these attributes don't currently define either major party. The Republicans could get closer to these attributes quicker than the Dem's.

So untill then I'll "waste" my vote on the Libertarians.

True.

I remember "back in the day" when I was a Republican......well because I'm a Christian and that's what Christians do. My main reason today for remaining Republican is my strong feelings regarding abortion - yes yes I know how much many of you hate "single issue" voting........blah blah blah.

I think the Christian right and the Repubs need each other - kind of like the lesser of two evils, that said, I don't believe that is Jesus were living in the US today he'd be a Republican or a Democrat

 

[buildyourown]

The hard core christians will always vote republican just like the greens will always vote for dems. In our 2 party system, a 3rd party vote is a wasted vote.

It was mentioned that many conservatives side with Shiavo's husband on this case. They see this as the fed medeling in personal healthcare and states rights.

 

[Westy]

I have to be honest if not for the neo-con and religious right segments of the GOP having so much power, hense contol of the party I would be a Republican.

Freedom, liberty, fiscally responsible government, small federal government, common sense, these attributes don't currently define either major party. The Republicans could get closer to these attributes quicker than the Dem's.

So untill then I'll "waste" my vote on the Libertarians.

I agree with you with the addition that I have always disagreed with the traditional conservative stand on the environment. I have always been supportive of fiscal responsibility but what has been going on the last few years reminds me more of a crackhead who found a credit card than conservative economics.

 

[Mackie]

I don't believe that is Jesus were living in the US today he'd be a Republican or a Democrat

So HWJV? (How would Jesus Vote?)
Green party?
Communist Party?

Just curious.

 

[Westy]

 

[Andyman_1970]

So HWJV? (How would Jesus Vote?)
Green party?
Communist Party?

Just curious.

Well knowing that depending on the issue He sided with traditionalists (conservatives of the day) and also progressives (liberals of the day). This kind of flies in the face of "Jesus the conservative" that most fundamentalist Christians paint of Him - and BTW not a popular position to have in one of those churches as I've learned.

So essentially Jesus was an indepentant.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Nah, He was too smart to be a hippy.................

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Well knowing that depending on the issue He sided with traditionalists (conservatives of the day) and also progressives (liberals of the day). This kind of flies in the face of "Jesus the conservative" that most fundamentalist Christians paint of Him - and BTW not a popular position to have in one of those churches as I've learned.

So essentially Jesus was an indepentant.

he´d vote probably socialist.
:devil:

 

[Andyman_1970]

he´d vote probably socialist.
:devil:

eeeeeeeehhhhhhhh probably not.................LOL

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

For starters, the media would badger him about his relationship with a particular woman of loose morals. Did he or didn't he with that woman? And does he know what the definition of "is" is? He put a stop to her immediate execution, too, which just went to show you what a liberal he was about crime.

He probably wouldn't have to waffle coyly on the past drug use issue, but there is the rather delicate matter of some potentially illegal alcohol-brewing alleged to have occurred at a wedding he attended. Was Jesus, in fact, licensed to do this?

The Republicans would slam this true compassionate conservative for being "soft on poverty," who encourages charity rather than exhorting the poor to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." They would nail him on his liberal spendthrift pro-tax policy ("Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.") Fundamentalists would hammer him for practicing witchcraft and sorcery after hearing he fed a huge crowd with one guy's lunch, and that he walked on water like a big show-off. The Democrats, ignoring the Magdalene Incident, would slam him for his hard-line stance on capital punishment ("Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.") The NRA would tentatively support him, encouraged by his tacit support for weapons.

Jesus would run into serious opposition from the Christian Coalition when he harshly criticized overly-legalistic religious people and questioned existing religious orthodoxy. Jerry Falwell would decry him as a 'false Messiah', as is clearly evidenced by Jesus' not speaking out against homosexuality and having no opinion at all on the abortion issue. "And anyway, where are your miracles?" he'd challenge him in a debate. "Let's see you toss yourself off a cliff and be caught by the angels, lest you dash your foot against a stone." Besides, he'd point out, Jesus is Jewish which means he may well be the Anti-Christ!

kinda clear he is anti good ol capitalism.....
and pro labor, since he helped and proletariat... that´d make him a commie.

 

[Andyman_1970]

To lend some Biblical accuracy to your little story:

Jesus would run into serious opposition from the Christian Coalition when he harshly criticized overly-legalistic religious people and questioned existing religious orthodoxy.

Technically He only questioned the “traditions of the Elders”, essentially stuff man had “added” to the Torah, which is why many of His opponents were silent when He laid into them.

Jerry Falwell would decry him as a 'false Messiah', as is clearly evidenced by Jesus' not speaking out against homosexuality and having no opinion at all on the abortion issue.
"And anyway, where are your miracles?" he'd challenge him in a debate. "Let's see you toss yourself off a cliff and be caught by the angels, lest you dash your foot against a stone." Besides, he'd point out, Jesus is Jewish which means he may well be the Anti-Christ!

As much as I like your Falwell comments – when Jesus says “when you’ve done this for the least of these you’ve done this for me” is a very strong argument in favor for respect/sanctity of human life.

kinda clear he is anti good ol capitalism.....
and pro labor, since he helped and proletariat... that´d make him a commie.

Well, His good friend Lazarus died (who BTW was loaded) and He raised Him from the dead. He ate with rich tax collectors, and although Zacheuss changes his tune, Jesus still associated with him. Not to mention Jesus visited Jericho which was the “Aspen” of the day, in addition to being a cursed city, to hang out with the rich. Not to mention (again), Jesus was buried in a tomb of a rich dude (a friend of His) Joseph of Araimathea. So to say He only hung out with the working class is a bit inaccurate.

 

[Skookum]

As much as I like your Falwell comments – when Jesus says “when you’ve done this for the least of these you’ve done this for me” is a very strong argument in favor for respect/sanctity of human life.

it's broad statements like this that is the foundation of all those blowhard kooks belching out "Their" disaproval in Florida, and waving their arms around like television antenaes trying to get good reception?

 

[ummbikes]

it's broad statements like this that is the foundation of all those blowhard kooks belching out "Their" disaproval in Florida, and waving their arms around like television antenaes trying to get good reception?

Christian wackos take a slice of the information and use it to build a movement. I am sickened by most of the known "Christian Leaders". I suspect that you will never see Andyman frothing on camera. And me, well I grudgingly admit that I may share a common diety with the asshats who froth and wave their arms for the TV cameras.

 

[Skookum]

Christian wackos take a slice of the information and use it to build a movement. I am sickened by most of the known "Christian Leaders". I suspect that you will never see Andyman frothing on camera. And me, well I grudgingly admit that I may share a common diety with the asshats who froth and wave their arms for the TV cameras.

Talk about running with something. i'm sorry but the way this topic has found it's way to the top of the dung heap of the minds of America and the media, it's left me feeling very distant with the bungling innocent flock who profess to do "his" will.

 

[Andyman_1970]

it's broad statements like this that is the foundation of all those blowhard kooks belching out "Their" disaproval in Florida, and waving their arms around like television antenaes trying to get good reception?

If you'll notice (just so you don't paint me with the same brush as other Christians) this is my first comment regarding either mine or any Biblical position or understanding on the sacredness of human life.

Umm is right, I could be potentially the last Christian you'd see frothing on TV - in fact I "froth" more at Christians and their misguided ways than I do those who are not Christians.

 

[Skookum]

If you'll notice (just so you don't paint me with the same brush as other Christians) this is my first comment regarding either mine or any Biblical position or understanding on the sacredness of human life.

Umm is right, I could be potentially the last Christian you'd see frothing on TV - in fact I "froth" more at Christians and their misguided ways than I do those who are not Christians.

But do you not co-sign with the same. "The sacredness of human life?" What exactly does that connatate really? You are still referring to the broad "pro-life" movement that "some" christians abide by, and to hell what other people think. Unless you believe this to be right for yourself and with any decision you make in your own life exclusively.
Nobody outside of the Shiavo family and their affiliations should be involved in their business regardless of how it turns out, period. There is a system in place and the zealots are pushing for their way or the highway, it ain't right.

 

[ummbikes]

Nobody outside of the Shiavo family and their affiliations should be involved in their business regardless of how it turns out, period. There is a system in place and the zealots are pushing for their way or the highway, it ain't right.

I agree completely, but let me make this clear, I feel that life is important, sacred even. What is not acceptable to me as a citizen is that we end up living under a fundamentalist Christian goverment. I don't know what these Christian groups are hoping to acomplish, they sure are not winning any people to there cause.

Hopefully people/you can understand there are many Christian sects, and that most are not political action groups like the ones that concern you and me so much.

 

[Andyman_1970]

But do you not co-sign with the same. "The sacredness of human life?" What exactly does that connatate really?

It means all human life is sacred and that all humans deserve to be treated with dignity and respect - every human is to be treated this way, even those who fly airplanes into buildings, even those who don't believe in God, even those who think God loves only them, even those who..........

Nobody outside of the Shiavo family and their affiliations should be involved in their business regardless of how it turns out, period.

I agree, their decision is between them and God - I don't have all the facts as to what is going on (and I don't want them) so I'm not going to comment either way as to how I would react to that situation.

 

[Skookum]

It means all human life is sacred and that all humans deserve to be treated with dignity and respect - every human is to be treated this way, even those who fly airplanes into buildings, even those who don't believe in God, even those who think God loves only them, even those who..........

Nice ideal, not held uniquely by you or your ilk. From your list here i suppose you "suspect" that.
And more importantly how it's realized thru action is more important anyways, i hope and pray my loved ones, my neighbors, my co-workers, my part time lovers can wake up to this. christian bashing HAH! Truth is you are our family some of our closest confidants and we are tired of the b.s., we see what your real lives entail.....
Anyways i personally percieve people who fly airplanes thru buildings to be human toast, but that's just my take.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Nice ideal, not held uniquely by you or your ilk. From your list here i suppose you "suspect" that.

Yeah it is a nice ideal, it’s what how all followers of Jesus should view people because it’s what He taught.

And more importantly how it's realized thru action is more important anyways,………

The point of being a follower of Jesus is how it’s realized through action not just what a person “agrees to” in their brain.

Truth is you are our family some of our closest confidants and we are tired of the b.s., we see what your real lives entail.....

Skook, I’ve been up since 4:30am this morning so it may just be me, but what are you trying to say here?

 

[Skookum]

Skook, I’ve been up since 4:30am this morning so it may just be me, but what are you trying to say here?

uhm ok. i'm my own worst editor, but here goes.....

Yeah it is a nice ideal, it’s what how all followers of Jesus should view people because it’s what He taught.

This ideal was not created nor is it exclusive to your beliefs, rather it's shared by nearly all, unless you're a criminal of some sort.

The point of being a follower of Jesus is how it’s realized through action not just what a person “agrees to” in their brain.

Really has nothing much to do with our discussion per se, but there is just so much hypocrisy in this topic. My perception of what i see others who just happen to be christian (since i live in this country and don't know many of other religion) and how they live their lives vs. how they would see others be restricted to live thru their ideals(not all of course), always pops out as evident to me. The Schiavo incident really just highlights this assesment in my view.

And for the final comment it's more of a joke, but really terrorists really hold no place in my heart personally. i have no sympathy for those who kill others to make a statement, and forgiveness is a necessary tool to rid the negative emotions from the self, but all that being said i have no motivation to hold them in any regard, other than that of.... toast.