Pondering the Shiver DC

zedro · Sep 5, 2004

atrokz said:
However, I need someting that can take abuse, is tall, and most important, is very responsive to frequency bumps, and numerous small hits without packing up or craping out. Something which most other forks seem to do.

So I'd like some educated (that means experienced here) truths of what i can expect in the Shiver. Is the flex note worthy while cornering? Is the 'plushness' great, or just normal. Is the higher center of gravity a concern?

a

well, its taller than a Dorado or Boxxer, but shorter than the notorious 888. Its very responsive, very plush, doesnt pack or crap out. Its not as advanced and adjustable as the 888, but still top notch when set up right.

As for the cornering, well it depens on who you ask and what they like. It definitly has a different feel to it, which some love and others hate (some people say noodle, others say they're idiots). The higher COG never occured to me, dont see a problem, but the lower unsprung rate helps it be very responsive. Its also a tough fork and will be less prone to damage due to the guards. Its also pretty much a zero maintenance fork....lots of '01 models still out there with original seals and bushings, and only one or two oil changes per year is required.

I love my Shiver and others feel cultish about it too, exept we dont form online cult memberships like those weenie brake people do....

MTNPSYCHO · Sep 5, 2004

alright, with the exception of the manipoo, I have ridden all of those forks, and am on the shiver now....I think its a great fork, but its not perfect...which fork is though....anyway, as far as the high frequency stutter bumps and ruts, there is no better fork on the market...when set up right, the shiver is super soft initially and ramps up very smmothly....I hardly ever bottom mine out, and its so plush that ants will make it move....
I did ride at Attitash in Nh this weekend, and the place is pretty steep and very technical singletrack, with millions of tight switchbacks and shallow dropins with quick corners....alot of times I felt the front wheel twistinga nd wandering around, but it really only happens in really techincal stuff that you have to pick your way through...if you are moving the shiver feels great all of the time...
I thoght the monster was of course much stiffer, somewhat more confidence innspiring, but more dead feeling.....shiver has the best action of any fork I have used yet..
I thoght the boxer was stiffer(not a lot) and lighter, but felt no where near as nice or as solid....feels cheap in comparison(2002 Team model)...
I have not had to touch my fork, other than occasional burping of the air inside the fork legs.....it is very well made and perfectly reliable.....I have a 2001 with original seals that dont leak a drop......
I would get one unless your riding in steep switchback stuff all of the time...for freeriding or dh runs its excellent....by the way its probably the most resistant fork to damage you can get...the fork guard lowers cover pretty much everything and unless your bike falls backwards onto a rock there is no way you will ever scratch a stantion....thats a good thing, as my monster T hit seemed to get a stantion scratch every time I rode it

CBJ · Sep 5, 2004

I can only agree with the above but I just sold my 2001 Shiver and got a 2004 Boxxer Team not because the Shiver is a anything but good but I wanted to try a lighter fork to better match my Orange 222, riding style and lack of strength. Again as said above it delivers as described and if you can handle the weight you will be a happy Shiver owner. That said I would look at the 888 too before making a choice.

cali4niabiker · Sep 5, 2004

MTNPSYCHO said:
shiver has the best action of any fork I have used yet..
I thoght the boxer was stiffer(not a lot) and lighter, but felt no where near as nice or as solid....feels cheap in comparison(2002 Team model)...
I have not had to touch my fork, other than occasional burping of the air inside the fork legs.....it is very well made and perfectly reliable.....I have a 2001 with original seals that dont leak a drop......
I would get one unless your riding in steep switchback stuff all of the time...for freeriding or dh runs its excellent....by the way its probably the most resistant fork to damage you can get...the fork guard lowers cover pretty much everything and unless your bike falls backwards onto a rock there is no way you will ever scratch a stantion....thats a good thing, as my monster T hit seemed to get a stantion scratch every time I rode it

I've ridden the '02 Shiver for 2 years and counting and the seals are original except for the springs (one soft in the p/l leg; medium in the rebound). I use 5 wt oil and have tried different weights (7.5, 10, but IMO, the 5 wt works best for me). I really dig the feel of the fork, especially in comparision to other forks that I've tried in the past & present (i.e., Dorado, Boxxer, Z1 MCR, Psylo Race, Fox 125 RLC). It does shine in the stutter bumps and on technical sections (i.e., rock gardens) and has saved my average Joe rider a$$ numerous times after screwing up on some drops. :love:

These forks are such low maintenance and you just basically slap 'em on and ride it until...

Before you buy, check out other forks and get a feel for them. Buy the one that has the most advantages in your opinion. If you don't mind the extra weight of the Shiver, you can't go wrong.

Jm_ · Sep 5, 2004

good place to look;

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/2003_front_shocks/index_byname.shtml

bighitfsr · Sep 5, 2004

"the lower unsprung rate helps it be very responsive"

the unsprung mass of a shiver includes a large volume of oil.
The unsprung mass is easily higher than a sherman (only 20g of oil in the lowers) and probably higher than a boxxer (smaller diameter, lower oil volume, mag vs alu).
If the shiver really is more responsive than other dual HSCV marzocchis its mainly due to superior lubrication IMO. It might also have a more linear air spring due to the larger volume of its legs (less effected by air pressure at the top of its stroke). Also the overlap in the legs should mean the legs will deflect and bind less resulting in smoother travel (inverted DC forks have more overlap).
This might be the reason why the old monsters are plusher than say a superT even though the dampers are the same (less binding + more air volume).
As JM has pointed out before the unsprung mass arguement is mute as the difference with most forks by the time you add a DH tire and wheel is tiny.
You also never hear anyone say I switched to a lighter front wheel and now my suspension is so much more responsive (the effect is too small).

"So I am used to forks that can track well and corner flawlessly, which is what I love in these forks"

The shiver is a noodle (or rather is flexy considering how much it weighs, owners and even die hard shiver fans even admit it).
The real question is does that bother you.
The shiver is more durable than the 888 (888 has very thin mag lowers and no stanchion protection) but also flexes more torsionally and has simpler dampers with rebound adjustment only. The 888R with the extra compression sleeve has adjustable compression damping and the progression of compression damping on top of the adjustments the shiver has (oil volume, oil weight, preload, rebound, oil height). I suspect that the effective piston area in an 888R is larger than in a shiver also (its damping should be more consistant and handle higher speed hits without spiking).

Whats more important to you performance (888R) or durability (shiver)?

If you want both you might want to do what I'm about to do and buy an Avy DHFti or DHF (exceptional: stiffness, damping and durability). Only weakness I've heard about is the DHFs are that its tall due to a thick lower crown and the fork guards dont wrap around the stanchions as much as some would like. Durability Craig says 2 years between servicing other than cleaning the stanchions/seals after riding (uber gnar !!!). Anyway I've no 1st hand expirience with the DHFs but I've PMed just about everyone whos revealed that they own one on this board (cause $1495 is a lot to spend on a fork).

PS: Please dont tell me the shiver is not an air fork (I know this). The air trapped in its legs has a very big effect on how the fork performs.

Jm_ · Sep 5, 2004

bighitfsr said:
I suspect that the effective piston area in an 888R is larger than in a shiver also (its damping should be more consistant and handle higher speed hits without spiking)..

I'd suspect it's the other way around, 888 carts are more fragile and probably smaller to save weight, as well as both forks have 35mm stanchions, so if anything, they'd be the same size (and have the same size pistons)...

zedro · Sep 5, 2004

funny how i said 'unsprung rate' instead of weight...wheres my hooked on phonics tape?

anyways, not worth arguing unless we have exact data between forks, and to what forks are being compared (SID anyone?). Especially since we agree its the smoothest fork in the known universe

gooch · Sep 6, 2004

lets go over the "trapped air" thing again.
So, from time to time do you take off the top caps and then put them back on to release the air??

JRogers · Sep 6, 2004

gooch said:
lets go over the "trapped air" thing again.
So, from time to time do you take off the top caps and then put them back on to release the air??

Basically, newer models (I know 2003-4 have it, not sure about others) just have a little hex screw on the top cap you can take off; no need to mess with the C-clip and such and take the caps off.

I have had a Shiver for 1.5 years and have only changed the oil a few times for maint. Never had any problems at all. I thought it was much smoother and generally better feeling than my old Slider. Damping is excellent. Really easy to tune. If it bottoms, add some more oil. If that doesn't help, get some heavier springs. That's about it besides rebound. I never really notice stiffness on forks...seriously, a SID feels like a Monster T to me... so I can't really comment in that department.

CBJ · Sep 6, 2004

gooch said:
lets go over the "trapped air" thing again.
So, from time to time do you take off the top caps and then put them back on to release the air??

I had one of my friends make the screws in the top cap and it was a good idea as my Shiver build up a lot of air especially in the left leg and it quickly effected the performance of the Shiver.

cali4niabiker · Sep 6, 2004

JRogers said:
Basically, newer models (I know 2003-4 have it, not sure about others) just have a little hex screw on the top cap you can take off; no need to mess with the C-clip and such and take the caps off.

I have had a Shiver for 1.5 years and have only changed the oil a few times for maint. Never had any problems at all. I thought it was much smoother and generally better feeling than my old Slider. Damping is excellent. Really easy to tune. If it bottoms, add some more oil. If that doesn't help, get some heavier springs. That's about it besides rebound. I never really notice stiffness on forks...seriously, a SID feels like a Monster T to me... so I can't really comment in that department.

THe 2002 models do have a small hex screw on top for burping. The 01 model doesn't.

-CAbiker

ioscope · Oct 2, 2004

Now that aevyone is on this thread, I have a question. Where are the adjustments on this fork? I am unsure of what the top metal knobs do, preload? Basically I need to let off my preload.

lovebunny · Oct 3, 2004

the shivers the best dh fork ive owend (02 monster 04 jr t 01 super t 02 shiver) i love mine abused the crap out of it and it keeps cpoming back for more. best trade i ever made. it feels way better than the monster did and is overall abetter fork. i guess you could say im a part of that shiver cult to. this is the 1st time ive actually been satisfied w/ my sh fork. i love it

ioscope · Oct 3, 2004

Now that shivers are at the top of the list... does anyone want ot trade coils? Extra firm for something appropriate for me around 140lbs.

Repack · Oct 3, 2004

I have had a Shiver sine they came out. WHat I found is that the steering is very good, BUT it seems that b/c it is an invert. more stress is being put on the hub. My Hadley comes loose every few rides (I think its toast). The loose hub is what leads to the biggest issues. loose hub on an invert means that you have lost a very imnportant/strong cross member.

Zark · Oct 3, 2004

bighitfsr said:
You also never hear anyone say I switched to a lighter front wheel and now my suspension is so much more responsive (the effect is too small).

I don't know about this, have you ever tried a Gazzy 3.0? :eek:

I When I took that pig off my front wheel my fork felt better, no kidding/

zedro · Oct 3, 2004

Repack said:
I have had a Shiver sine they came out. WHat I found is that the steering is very good, BUT it seems that b/c it is an invert. more stress is being put on the hub. My Hadley comes loose every few rides (I think its toast). The loose hub is what leads to the biggest issues. loose hub on an invert means that you have lost a very imnportant/strong cross member.

i dont buy that, the axle is the structural member, not the hub, unless you have no idea on how to tighten the axle down properly.

Repack · Oct 6, 2004

zedro said:
i dont buy that, the axle is the structural member, not the hub, unless you have no idea on how to tighten the axle down properly.

Sorry. I phrased it wrong. An invert fork puts more stress on the hub. Thus the hub loosens quicker. I haven't had the problem on Boxxers or other right-side-up forks.

ohio · Oct 6, 2004

Repack said:
Sorry. I phrased it wrong. An invert fork puts more stress on the hub. Thus the hub loosens quicker. I haven't had the problem on Boxxers or other right-side-up forks.

That still doesn't sound right. I reckon you just have a hub due for a rebuild. The stresses are all on the axle, which is pretty independent of the hub.

ioscope · Oct 6, 2004

Yeah, the hub should be bombproof.

ioscope · Oct 6, 2004

Unless it's a "dare I say" qr invert!!!!!

Pondering the Shiver DC

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