[BurlyShirley]

I say, no, it's not really degrading to women, and yes, it probably shouldnt be allowed for kids.

As far as being degrading, I mean, there's women who wilfully accept the porn roles, and as we know, humans are a sexual species and women DO have sex, so SEEING it vice imagining it doesnt hurt anything IMO. It may be degrading to some extent to see a chick treated as an "object" but really, the guy is no more personable in this scenario. Males (generally speaking) are not on the "receiving" end of it all, so they will appear more dominant no matter how you play it out.

As far as kids go, well, sex is an important issue that everyone has to learn about, but seeing 9 dudes plug away at Chasey Lain might give them some of the wrong ideas about this kind of thing. After all, most porn demonstrates unprotected sex between many many partners (though granted, Chasey herself always uses protection), crazy a$$ plotlines and some sick sick sick stuff here and there. I saw a video called "ground beef grinding" once that just wasnt appropriate for anyone and could probably make a serial killer out of anyone below the age of 10.

So watcha think?

 

[valve bouncer]

I don't think there's much doubt that a lot of exploitation does go on in the porn industry. However likes drugs and guns and abortions you're never gonna stop people having/doing them/it so you might as well make it legal and regulate it as much as possible to try to minimise the harm done to people.

 

[Changleen]

a$$ plotlines

Hehe

 

[Skookum]

Yes i think that porn is exploitation just as prostitution is. But at the same time being in construction i'm being exploited for my body as well. We don't grow old gracefully, pain is on the docket.
Porn isn't even a glimpse of a picture of love between people in terms of sexuality. As a tool to expand awareness of sexuality it's pretty limited. Therefore it really serves no purpose to have kids watch it unless they use it to "get their rocks off" which mostly all of adults use it for anyways.

 

[Toshi]

it really serves no purpose to have kids watch it unless they use it to "get their rocks off" which mostly all of adults use it for anyways.

uh, porn is useful in, er, expanding one's aesthetic appreciation of the human form. what higher purpose is there than that? heh

 

[Echo]

I think pretty much every chick who has gone into porn or become a stripper has done it because of the money and/or drugs. It's pretty much the nastiest thing a girl can do next to becoming a hooker.

But it is quality entertainment, so who am I to judge

 

[BurlyShirley]

Echo, I think most people take jobs for the money...

 

[Skookum]

uh, porn is useful in, er, expanding one's aesthetic appreciation of the human form. what higher purpose is there than that? heh

Yah whatever haha.... A diluted photographer/artist justification otherwise know as "gettin your rocks off"....

Echo, I think most people take jobs for the money...

People who "love" thier jobs are either real lucky or just fooling themselves.
i love my job! :dancing:

 

[Changleen]

I can't believe no one has said this yet:

"This thread sucks without pictures..."

 

[binary visions]

I would agree that it is exploitation to a certain extent, but the man simply being "dominant" doesn't make it less degrading for men.

There's a stigma attached to women where a woman is "being f**ked" which indicates a completely passive role, as if she is not participating at all but is simply an inanimate hole to be plugged. Not to mention the fact that a woman having sex with a lot of men is a slut, whereas a man having sex with the same amount of women is simply a "stud". That means that for most people, the knee-jerk reaction to porn is that it's the woman being exploited - but why? The man and the woman are being paid to have anonymous, poorly plotted, over dramatized, usually unprotected sex - it's just as degrading for the man to be reduced to that level.

As for kids... Well, IMO, kids should have a healthy understanding of what sex is, what it should be, and the implications of it before they are exposed to something that embodies everything that sex shouldn't be. I've got no problem with the 18+ porn law - kids will find porn anyway, especially given how mind bogglingly easy it is to locate porn on the internet now. Parents should provide enough supervision and enough guidance that their kids aren't looking at porn every day - easy as that.

 

[Echo]

Echo, I think most people take jobs for the money...

Yeah but most jobs don't involve sucking d... oh wait, never mind

 

[Andyman_1970]

Being the seemingly "uptight" Christian on this board I'm sure my answer will not surprise any of you, but I beleive porn is VERY degrading to women, and duh it's bad for kids.

The kids issue is rather transparent so I'll skip that one, but for me the fact that it is degrading to women is the real issue at hand.

One of the things that I believe is the fundamental issue with porn is that the women (for the most part those being viewed are women) are treated like and viewed as essentially objects, something a person can consume to derive some satisfaction from. Treating someone as an object (and not as a human with value deserving of respect) is the same philosophy that gave us slavery – people are property to be bought and sold. Why do we have this knee jerk reaction that on some level deep within us slavery is bad? I believe it’s because when you treat someone as an object you are fundamentally denying their humanity and instead they become an object. Personally with regards to my faith I believe that when you are disrespectful (not like the human they are) to a person created in the image of God you are ultimately disrespectful to God.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I'm curious, how many "pro-porn" (or even something as tame as frequenting a Hooters) folks out there are also pro womens equality?

 

[binary visions]

I'm curious, how many "pro-porn" (or even something as tame as frequenting a Hooters) folks out there are also pro womens equality?

I am absolutely pro-women's equality. A capable woman can do anything she wants.

I don't visit Hooters, but isn't the situation there reversed? Isn't it the stupid, drooling, over-tipping men that are being degraded in a situation like that? The girls work there in tight clothes, and for it they are over-tipped. It's a free choice to them (it's not like they're put in a position of work at Hooters or starve - they could easily work at another resturant), and the men fall all over themselves as if they actually have a chance to take a single one of them home. The women recognize themselves as attractive, and use it to their advantage.

I guess I would ask why it's only the man that you think is shown as deriving satisfaction from the woman? From the noises most women make in those movies, it sounds like she's getting some satisfaction too .

Obviously, there are rape/bondage/dominance films that would show women as being subserviant, but those are designed to show women in that position and I don't agree with them.

I'm no porn expert - in fact, I've never actually watched a porn video or DVD, only those movies which I've idly downloading from the internet - but most that I've seen just as often depicts the woman in the position (ha ha, get it, position?) of initiating the sex.

 

[Snacks]

I'm curious, how many "pro-porn" (or even something as tame as frequenting a Hooters) folks out there are also pro womens equality?

Me. I don't go to Hooters though....I don't like the food.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I'm curious, how many "pro-porn" (or even something as tame as frequenting a Hooters) folks out there are also pro womens equality?

Me 3

And for once I have to type more than I want to ....lol

 

[Andyman_1970]

So you have this sense that women are valuable and are worthy of being treated as equals with men, deserving of respect............and yet the way you live, the actions you partake in are in opposition to that (fundamentally) -I think this is called like not living a holistic life.

The preceeding statement was said with all due respect and not in an accusatory or judgemental tone.

 

[binary visions]

and yet the way you live, the actions you partake in are in opposition to that (fundamentally)

In your view, yes. But keep in mind, that you have to have accepted that porn and/or businesses like Hooters are degrading to women in order to make the above statement true.

I haven't been convinced yet.

I think the porn industry isn't exactly on a moral high ground, but there's a lot of things that people do/partake in that aren't morally perfect, however it doesn't necessarily make them fundamentally wrong.

 

[binary visions]

To contradict myself a little, I do think it's horrible that some women are pushed into being strippers, hookers, doing porn etc. simply due to economic forces beyond their control. Being born into a poor family shouldn't necessitate leading such a life simply to provide for a child or for the rest of your family.

That's not a problem with porn or strip clubs, though, that's a problem with economics and the job market, for both men and women.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Regardless of if the person (male or female) enjoys or voluntarily participates in the activity is irrelevant to the fundamental issue, which is how do we treat people: like humans with value deserving of respect, or and object or be consumed.

How is treating a person like an object not degrading or dispectful to that person?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Regardless of if the person (male or female) enjoys or voluntarily participates in the activity is irrelevant to the fundamental issue, which is how do we treat people: like humans with value deserving of respect, or and object or be consumed.

How is treating a person like an object not degrading or dispectful to that person?

Is the man treated any less like an object in porn? What about gay porn? Porn is a mutual thing. It isnt rape.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Is the man treated any less like an object in porn?.

Nope. My point was, since the majority of porn invovles women, I wanted to see how many that were "pro-porn" were also pro womens rights and equality.

Porn is a mutual thing. It isnt rape.

I never said it was, being forced to or voluntarily participating is not the issue - the issue is how these people are treated and not nessicarily (sp?) by those who "handle" them in their respective jobs - I believe it's an issue of the consumers viewing these people as objects.

Again, how is treating or viewing a person as an object not disrespectful or demeaning to that person?

 

[binary visions]

How is treating a person like an object not degrading or dispectful to that person?

Have you ever laughed at someone for doing something stupid? Ever enjoyed some kind of slapstick comedy? Ever looked at a girl and thought, "man, she's hot!"?

Ever watched a play?

These people are, of their own volition, choosing to be part of an entertainment industry. All of the people in the film, by the way, not just the men - they don't drag women off the street and force them to participate. They are entering into the industry with the full knowledge that what they do will be distributed and watched by people.

 

[valve bouncer]

Andy mate I'm afraid you're pissing into the wind here. Whether or not it degrades women (I think it does to a certain extent) is really beside the point. People are always gonna f*ck for money, whether in a brothel or on camera or on a stage on Patpong Road. It's never gonna be any different. The best thing you can do is regulate it, try and keep the criminal element out, keep the actors healthy and minimise the negatives as much as possible. It's still not gonna be pretty a lot of the time but it beats the alternatives.

 

[pnj]

I saw a blurb on the CNN (I think) ticker that said research shows porn to be as addicting as heroin and alcohol.

a lot of the females in porn are exploited. they are young, dumb and often in positons (no pun intended) that leave them with what they believe to be no other choice then to perform sex acts with other people. it's easy, find a young girl (over 18 of course), get her high for "free", then take advantage of her. it happens OFTEN in the porn world/stripper world.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Well, forgive me if I disagree with CNN, but I do view the occasional porno mag/movie and I havent sold any posessions to buy more. I dont just think about my next hit of porn every waking moment. If I dont see porn for a few months, I dont go through withdrawls and get forced into a methadone clinic or anything. That study or whatever CNN is citing is BOGUS.

 

[binary visions]

a lot of the females in porn are exploited. they are young, dumb and often in positons (no pun intended) that leave them with what they believe to be no other choice then to perform sex acts with other people. it's easy, find a young girl (over 18 of course), get her high for "free", then take advantage of her. it happens OFTEN in the porn world/stripper world.

Okay, but a lot of people in a lot of industries are exploited. Which is valve bouncer's point - let's try and keep things clean and regulated.

However, that's a whole different argument. Let's stick to the point here: under ideal circumstances (and ideal circumstances are a lot more common in the "industry" than you think - we're not necessarily talking about your average three minute online movie), where people enter into a movie under their own free will, is that immoral/degrading?

There are child athletes that are under constant stress and pressure from their parents and coaches to perform their best, so much so that they get sick and can't live normal lives. That doesn't make child athletics wrong.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Have you ever laughed at someone for doing something stupid? Ever enjoyed some kind of slapstick comedy? Ever looked at a girl and thought, "man, she's hot!"?

Hot girl walks by and the thought or what is said is "Look at that" - she is no longer a person, someones sister, daughter or whatever - she has become in the eyes of those watching her a that.

The difference between the slapstick and a porn is, those people (Dumb and Dumber comes to mind - I love that movie) don't become a that to their audience, they don't become and object to consume........they are two actors making fart noises...or having explosive diarrea..........LOL.

Ever watched a play?

Actors in a play don't become a that, we don't watch a play and go "man look at that a$$ I bet that feels so good", or "those are some awesome tit$ I would love to..........".

These people are, of their own volition, choosing to be part of an entertainment industry. All of the people in the film, by the way, not just the men - they don't drag women off the street and force them to participate. They are entering into the industry with the full knowledge that what they do will be distributed and watched by people.

I don't believe volition is the issue, the issue lies with the consumer, it lies with all of us - do we fundamentally view other humans as a that, as products to be consumed and used, as objects to be bought and sold.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Well, forgive me if I disagree with CNN, but I do view the occasional porno mag/movie and I havent sold any posessions to buy more. I dont just think about my next hit of porn every waking moment. If I dont see porn for a few months, I dont go through withdrawls and get forced into a methadone clinic or anything. That study or whatever CNN is citing is BOGUS.

Since and orgasm sets off the same chemical reaction in your brain as cocaine (medical fact) - I would say this is not bogus. I would also say it's not bogus as I used to be addicted to porn............been there done that........it can become quite controlling if that is what you are "wired" for.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Andy mate I'm afraid you're pissing into the wind here. Whether or not it degrades women (I think it does to a certain extent) is really beside the point. People are always gonna f*ck for money, whether in a brothel or on camera or on a stage on Patpong Road. It's never gonna be any different. ................ It's still not gonna be pretty a lot of the time but it beats the alternatives.

Yeah I get the hint I hit a nerve here, which is fine. My goal is not to change minds (if I did that would be cool), it's just to present another point of view - a counter cultural one it seems.

 

[binary visions]

I disagree with your premise, here, Andy.

A woman does not become a "that" in a porn movie. A very basic part of a person is their sexuality which means you're introducing an element of humanity and their personality into the movie - even if it's fake. And when you are watching Dumb and Dumber, you are watching Jim Carry reduced to a shell of a man dancing about for your entertainment. You are not thinking about what his mother bakes on Christmas or whether he feels embarassed because he's being laughed at for having explosive diahrrea. You are laughing at him because your brain says that if someone were really in front of you in that situation, it would be funny to see them horribly embarassed and ashamed.

You don't think that's about as impersonal as it gets? If that were your brother in there, you would feel awful for him - it's not his fault, and he's ruining his chances with a woman he really cares about. But since it's not your brother, you can laugh at him.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I see your point, but I would argue there is a difference between Dumb and Dumber and a porno - Jim Carry and Jeff Bridges don't become objects, they are people doing silly things.

We can agree to disagree here, that's fine with me.

Oh and BTW - if my brother (or even my best friend for that matter) had explosive diarrea in front of me we would all think it's hilarious - reminds me of when I had to poo on the side of the trail during a ride using a log that several snakes had used or were using that log as a home...........anyway

 

[pnj]

shirly, are you an expert in addictions?

they say alcholol is addicting, but some people can drink or not drink. those that are addicted, can not stop drinking. just because something is addicting, doesn't mean everyone will become addicted to it.

 

[binary visions]

Oh and BTW - if my brother (or even my best friend for that matter) had explosive diarrea in front of me we would all think it's hilarious - reminds me of when I had to poo on the side of the trail during a ride using a log that several snakes had used or were using that log as a home...........anyway

Well, okay, bad example, I'd think it's funny too

 

[Kornphlake]

The objection I have for porn isn't really because it's degrading to women (which I believe it is) it's because porn demoralizes the sacrad act of procreation. Porn glorifies adultry, infidelity and fornication. Rather hooking up with some drunk girl you met is socially acceptable or not it's still wrong according to the 10 commandments, plain and simple. Portraying this through the media as normal serves as self justification for those who partake of this type of behavior. The addiction and degradation are just other problems that are secondary to the real issue.

I don't have the exact referances in front of me, but something like 99% of all criminals on death row admit that thier crimes began after becoming addicted to porn. This doesn't mean that one who occasionally looks at a nudy mag will become a serial killer, but for those who have the predesposition to do so it's a gateway just as marijuana becomes a gateway for those who have a predesposition for drug abuse.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Since and orgasm sets off the same chemical reaction in your brain as cocaine (medical fact) - I would say this is not bogus. I would also say it's not bogus as I used to be addicted to porn............been there done that........it can become quite controlling if that is what you are "wired" for.

Uh no, sorry. An orgasm is something completely different than the porn itself. The porn does not induce an orgasm. The porn has no chemical properties to do such a thing. It's not the same as cocaine. It is not a drug, and the addiction lies not within the capablities of the "porn" itself, but within the human mind. People get addicted to drugs because they are chemically inclined or prompted, denying them that has ACTUAL physical effects that would occur in all people. Saying that porn is AS addictive is simply incorrect. That's like saying the sting of a bee is just as bad as getting shot with a bullet because SOME people are allergic to bees.

 

[BurlyShirley]

shirly, are you an expert in addictions?

they say alcholol is addicting, but some people can drink or not drink. those that are addicted, can not stop drinking. just because something is addicting, doesn't mean everyone will become addicted to it.

Right, and that's the precise reason that alcohol is not AS addictive as crack and porn is not AS addictive as heroin. ANYONE who does crack or heroine enough WILL become chemically dependent upon them. Not so with porn or alcohol.

 

[Kornphlake]

mental addictions can be just as strong as chemical addictions as far as I know.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Uh no, sorry. An orgasm is something completely different than the porn itself. The porn does not induce an orgasm. The porn has no chemical properties to do such a thing. It's not the same as cocaine.

Dude, you have no clue what your talking about. An orgasm and cocaine affect the brain in the exact same way and in the exact same region - your brain does not know the difference.

It is not a drug, and the addiction lies not within the capablities of the "porn" itself, but within the human mind.

This part you are correct, but the porn is the vehicle to that orgasm to get one more "hit".

People get addicted to drugs because they are chemically inclined or prompted, denying them that has ACTUAL physical effects that would occur in all people. Saying that porn is AS addictive is simply incorrect. That's like saying the sting of a bee is just as bad as getting shot with a bullet because SOME people are allergic to bees.

Ok let me rephrase sex and the resulting (hopefully) orgasm can be as addicting as cocaine, and people are "wired" as it were to be inclinded for these kinds of addictions.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Nope. My point was, since the majority of porn invovles women, I wanted to see how many that were "pro-porn" were also pro womens rights and equality.



I never said it was, being forced to or voluntarily participating is not the issue - the issue is how these people are treated and not nessicarily (sp?) by those who "handle" them in their respective jobs - I believe it's an issue of the consumers viewing these people as objects.

Again, how is treating or viewing a person as an object not disrespectful or demeaning to that person?

I'm pro-porn, but please discribe womans rights? To vote, thats fine, to do any type of job? I'm fine with that too as long as she is capable of doing it. What else?