Quantcast

Post-Sovereign Hardtail Options

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,709
12,815
Man, rigid forks are all ~495mmish max, it looks like. With the Sovereign it seemed to work, but that's pretty short even compared to a 100mm 29er fork...
I would think there's probably not many longer as that's about the same as a sagged 100mm suspension fork isn't it?

I think my 29er rigid is 490mm
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
yeah I didn't account for sag...I was about to delete the comment when your quote showed up lol.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
But it does speak for that Sirius vice something made for a longer fork.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
If I was going to hit the reset button on my hardtail fleet this is where I would go.

 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,510
5,261
If you are going to spend Kingdom money you could get an American made Lynskey for similar money with their 10% off sale.
In my opinion this is the only frame they have ever made with close to decent geo, hopefully they are made to take some abuse.
1647641169642.png

Chumba still have nothing.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,510
5,261
I think so, they also did some stuff for Planet-X/On-One way back when.

If the reach was a bit longer on the Lynskey I'd probably get one but custom geo is +$1000.
The non sliding DO frame is $1800 at the moment.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,709
12,815
Not modern geo but I've got 11+ years on a Lynskey frame that was a prototype they made for Salsa and it's got >10000miles on it now with no issues.

It's got an unrideable 100mm stem on it :p
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,510
5,261
Haha, I wouldn't ride two miles on a bike with a 4" stem.
Not sure I would have had a bike in the last 15yrs with a stem longer than 50mm, they never seemed to make any sense.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
If you are going to spend Kingdom money you could get an American made Lynskey for similar money with their 10% off sale.
In my opinion this is the only frame they have ever made with close to decent geo, hopefully they are made to take some abuse.
View attachment 173684
Chumba still have nothing.
Yeah geometry is fairly conservative--seat tube longer than I'd want with shorter reach...and way out of my price range.

I love the Middle Child and it's available in purple right now and that would be such a good successor to the Evil in so many ways. But the Sirius is probably more what I want out of a hardtail right now...a shade lighter and more long-range/all-round oriented while still being fun to descend. (I enjoy going downhill on a rigid singlespeed...sue me...)

Edit: Enquired about the S5...
 
Last edited:

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
Yeah geometry is fairly conservative--seat tube longer than I'd want with shorter reach...and way out of my price range.

I love the Middle Child and it's available in purple right now and that would be such a good successor to the Evil in so many ways. But the Sirius is probably more what I want out of a hardtail right now...a shade lighter and more long-range/all-round oriented while still being fun to descend. (I enjoy going downhill on a rigid singlespeed...sue me...)

Edit: Enquired about the S5...

People look at me funny riding a hardtail on DH oriented trails, but rigid?

(looks at you funny)

:D
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
You can get the Chromag Rootdown in purple too-
View attachment 173708

I love my Rootdown/Primer but it isn't the type of all around bike MikeD is looking for. BB would be way too low running a rigid fork, too low with 27.5 wheels IMO, no single speed option. The frame is built to take absurd amounts of abuse making it heavy and has a rather stiff ride. It is designed for riding recklessly down steep rough terrain, which is fucking awesome but not ideal for tamer conditions.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
I love my Rootdown/Primer but it isn't the type of all around bike MikeD is looking for. BB would be way too low running a rigid fork, too low with 27.5 wheels IMO, no single speed option. The frame is built to take absurd amounts of abuse making it heavy and has a rather stiff ride. It is designed for riding recklessly down steep rough terrain, which is fucking awesome but not ideal for tamer conditions.
It makes me sad that this is true.

Am I old??
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Honestly I just now want a bike that's more capable for longer hauls than the full susser, but retains that techy spirit to the extent possible.

I did look at frame weights and find the RSD isn't really out of the ballpark with the Esker or Pipedream, but I think as far as ride quality, something less rigidly constructed is where I need to go. Gonna pre-order one or the other soon, I think.

Now, do I hold onto the sovereign as wall art, or re-home to someone who's actually gonna ride it? I mean, I doubt I could get very much for it anyhow. Need to pare down the large volume of bike shit I own. In sort of the same place with the Turner RFX, too. Inclined to box them up and ship them to the father in law to put in the shed, but then again, both frames sold might fund the new HT frame to a large extent.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,159
4,368
Don’t know if there is any market for a v1 sov anymore. I would think none.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,510
5,261
Don’t know if there is any market for a v1 sov anymore. I would think none.
Maybe weird hardtails will be like old DH bikes and appreciate in value? Probably not but stranger things have happened.
I think I've had ~10 hardtails in the last 15yrs, I think I sold two as frames and the rest either broke or had a date with the hacksaw and got recycled, none of them were worth keeping.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,159
4,368
Maybe weird hardtails will be like old DH bikes and appreciate in value? Probably not but stranger things have happened.
I think I've had ~10 hardtails in the last 15yrs, I think I sold two as frames and the rest either broke or had a date with the hacksaw and got recycled, none of them were worth keeping.
Yeah, maybe one day. Hasn’t happened yet.
There is some market for the very rare things in boutique condition, but who has that? I say keep for nostalgia or pass along to someone who will know how to ride it. Still riding mine some 15 years on. That’s gotta say something about the quality of the frames!
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
In for a penny, in for a pound on this one, I think.

Got a buyer lined up for the Turner who will love and use it vice letting it be wall art for me, and I'm cool with that. So now I can afford to get the Sirius, a used 29er suspension fork, a rigid fork...maybe even carbon...and a set of used 29" wheels. This will let me play with absolutely every combo of wheel size, travel,. and drivetrain, and clear out a bunch of 26" wheeled stuff while I'm at it.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
^now back to dithering over Esker vs Pipedream.

Esker's a 66 HA and slightly taller seat tube, but geometries are really similar. Like the Esker's dropout modularity but wonder if something more conventional (Pipedream's sliders) might not be simpler/more reliable/less troublesome in the end.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
^now back to dithering over Esker vs Pipedream.

Esker's a 66 HA and slightly taller seat tube, but geometries are really similar. Like the Esker's dropout modularity but wonder if something more conventional (Pipedream's sliders) might not be simpler/more reliable/less troublesome in the end.

Seat angle and wheelbase are fairly different. Have you ridden a bike with modernish steep seat angles?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
The 2020 Balance I just got is the steepest seat angle I've tried. Per their site, 75.7 effective but 70.3 actual. Whatever that means in the end. (edit: I'm unaware of the practical difference in feel of the 2-ish degrees difference in the two frames...I do know I like pedaling the Balance uphill. It works a lot better for me than my older Balance or any other previous big-bike I've had. Roomy top tubes that I'd have begged for in 2005 are finally true and it works for me in reality...)
 
Last edited:

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Also...torn between that classy silver and the dark purple on the Sirius. The babyshit mustard olive ain't doing it for me. And for the esker, the green and orange are both killer...I always love a green bike...

Never thought I'd care about the color of a bike, but here I am...since I'm buying new for only the third time in 23 years of biking...
 
Last edited:

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Yeah, I think I'm getting Sirius here.

Esker's dropouts look like something that could develop a problem; just more complicated than it needs to be. And no ISCG mounts...I always want to run a teeny upper chainguide when geared.

I want modern geometry, I'm gonna get modern geometry...

The Hardtail Party video buildups of the bikes helped.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
Yeah, I think I'm getting Sirius here.

Esker's dropouts look like something that could develop a problem; just more complicated than it needs to be. And no ISCG mounts...I always want to run a teeny upper chainguide when geared.

I want modern geometry, I'm gonna get modern geometry...

The Hardtail Party video buildups of the bikes helped.

I approve this message. What kind of fork are you going to slap on it.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Pike @ 120mm and a Carver rigid carbon as needed.

Pike may get luftkappe and other goodies as time passes...I also have my 27.5 Lyrik if I want to get weirdly low.

Got an external-cable dropper I could use, or an internal routed with a thin seatpost shim. Have a buddy who could use the external so probably sell to him.

NX drivetrain, with singlespeed option off the HG cassette and a chainring/chain swap. TRP Slate Brakes. (TRP user now also thanks to Westy...)

Cockpit TBD; have 35/40/60 stem options I could swap in and some nice FSA carbon-wrap bars, but think the rise may prove too low on them given the stack height of the bike. We'll see.

Exact wheels TBD but looking at a lot of cheaper 29" options, OEM take-offs and such, before deciding what I really want on it. 25-30mm width rims for sure. (Ed: anyone have any old Boost 29er wheels around...?)

Purple or gray?!
 
Last edited:

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
Pike @ 120mm and a Carver rigid carbon as needed.

Pike may get luftkappe and other goodies as time passes...I also have my 27.5 Lyrik if I want to get weirdly low.

Got an external-cable dropper I could use, or an internal routed with a thin seatpost shim. Have a buddy who could use the external so probably sell to him.

NX drivetrain, with singlespeed option off the HG cassette and a chainring/chain swap. TRP Slate Brakes. (TRP user now also thanks to Westy...)

Cockpit TBD; have 35/40/60 stem options I could swap in and some nice FSA carbon-wrap bars, but think the rise may prove too low on them given the stack height of the bike. We'll see.

Exact wheels TBD but looking at a lot of cheaper 29" options, OEM take-offs and such, before deciding what I really want on it. 25-30mm width rims for sure. (Ed: anyone have any old Boost 29er wheels around...?)

Purple or gray?!

I'd bump up the travel on the Pike if Lufkapping as you will get an additional 5mm of sag. I'd go 140mm as I think that bikes geometry could handle a longer travel fork and would help with your stack height issues, but I am projecting my personal preferences.

Gray is awesome if it is raw metal. Life is too short for gray paint. And it is Nightshade you culturally insensitive brute.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
It's silver paint, not raw. I do have three raw Canfields hanging in the carport right now tho, lol. Soon to be just one.

Purple it is.

Fork is 140 right now...was gonna get the 120 airshaft for it...
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
The silver does look good with that blue SID...
1648011097923.png


Lacking a photo of the Nightshade, just the color swatch on the site...I'll envision RSD purple and hope it looks like this:

1648011159238.png
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,948
19,688
Sleazattle
It's silver paint, not raw. I do have three raw Canfields hanging in the carport right now tho, lol. Soon to be just one.

Purple it is.

Fork is 140 right now...was gonna get the 120 airshaft for it...

Nice. You'll be able to check out all the different setups.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
I'll do the pre-order once they answer my question about frame carton size.

If it was coming through normal mail that'd be easy, but with parcel services I have size restrictions and the WORST would be having it get returned. Worst comes to worst I might be in DC in the next few months so have it shipped there and grab it...
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Funny that the seattube gusset was something I always wanted in a hardtail till just now, like a visual signal that the bike meant business.

And I still love the RSD...if I was looking for something just a little more rough and tumble, that's be it. (Hell, it's available right now and takes 27.5s with a 12.2 BB height...maybe I should just go for it lol)