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Post-Sovereign Hardtail Options

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
aaaaand I don't think they can ship it here because they aren't using national postal systems. I'll work it out but I think I might have to have it shipped to a friend Stateside who can then send on to me via USPS. The forwarding service I have to use for parcel companies probably won't accept the frame box due to size. Blech.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,400
843
Post pics when you get it.

I was torn between the Honzo ESD and Middlechild. I eventually went for the Honzo ESD because the slacker HA, shorter ST, longer Reach and lower price seemed more appealing to me, but I am sure I would have loved the Middlechild.

For what you're looking for, you probably made the best choice.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,919
5,883
In regard to seat tube angle, you don't need a HT quite as steep as a dually as they can feel a bit weird on the flats.

I am 6ft and I went with a 76deg STA and for me that is borderline too steep, I had to swap my T-Mac pedals back to my old Sam Hills to move my feet further forward and Swapping from a Magura dropper to an E-verb or whatever with a few mm offset made it feel okay.

Also, modern Geo is an On-One Hello Dave or a Marin El Roy, hahaha!
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
I am wavering on wheels. But thinking it's best to take the near-new hubs off two 26" wheels I built for the Shred Panzer, Boostinate the rear Hope hub, and use the time before the bike arrives to build new wheels off some rims I manage to scam for a good deal (seeing $60ish options if I scour the internet vs. the $100-150ish full price jobs...)

Or should I try scary-cheap Chinese crabOn??!
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
(also, I missed The Plus Size Wars phase of mountain biking and am writing off 27.5+. But...could that be what might work for me, in a 2.8ish type role, esp with rigid??)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
For a hardtail or fully rigid bike I would recommend avoiding carbon as the ride can be very harsh. That being said you can build up a smoother riding carbon wheel (low profile + thin spokes) but I don't think the cheap chinese rims fit in that category.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
(also, I missed The Plus Size Wars phase of mountain biking and am writing off 27.5+. But...could that be what might work for me, in a 2.8ish type role, esp with rigid??)
I run a 2.8" tire in the rear with my 27.5" setup. The only drawback being that those tires tend to be lightweight with no DD or DH style casing. With cushcore I haven't had any problems but I have nice round rocks and haven't put very many miles on that setup.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,400
843
For my ESD, I opted for Stan's Flow MK4 29" with CushCore. I think it should offer a great ride on a hardtail.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,486
9,181
Crawlorado

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
The Sun Black Flags I got at $250 new for the Riot couldn't keep spokes in tension. But my buddy is buying the whole thing all together, and probably won't ever beat on it anywhere near what I did.

I've had generally mediocre experiences with them, except I think Ryno Lite XLs were good rims in the day. I dented mine a bunch but I was bashing into shit at mach 6 on a Trek 6000 with 2.2ish tires and a manitou elastomer fork, sooooo...


That said, any port in a storm of being cheap. I can put up with them for experimentation. Found some other interesting Pinkbike deals.



Edit: Also, I think plus size can wait. Back to finding some decent 29 rims.
 
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dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,288
4,635
Tried 2.8 tires briefly. Was interested in a bit of free cush. Found that with that cush came a wallowy, unsupported ride… and very unlike dh wide tires of ages ago. It was fine when poking around, but leaning in hard to anything, or land a bit sideways on a jump and it felt bad. 2.5 and 2.35 maxxis have served me well.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
Anyone know any good deals on 29" rims? I'm looking at e13 LG1 enduros for $55-odd and maybe some cheap DT Swiss 350s I found. Found some Bitex even cheaper...faster engagment and alleged high quality. Really, the availability of spares for both is via Internet so maybe the slightly-less-likely-to-be-found-under-their-own-name-or-at-the-LBS nature of the Bitex isn't a big deal.

For an aluminum rim, I think my holy grail for this bike would be DT Swiss XM481s, but I'm not paying $150 each. There are Spank 350s, allegedly in the 500g range per, for $70 shipped. I built a set of Spanks once and it was a pretty easy process...nice and stiff and true from the lace-up to the end, so heavily considering them as well.


Sticking to normal 2.3-2.5ish tires, but would like 30mm-ish width because Maxxis Wide Trail is the norm on 2.5s now. Not gonna explode if run on a 27mm but don't want lower than that.
 
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DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,332
2,875
The bunker at parliament
In the cheap but good rim stakes it would be worth checking out ;
Chromag Ally
Funn Fantom
Built a few wheels with them at work and been quite impressed by both the rims.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
Man that Funn rim looks like a good price for a welded rim...alas US distro seems nonexistent for Funn parts beyond stems and pedals and bits like that. (Ed: found a shop with them for $75 in Tampa!!!)

The Chromag rim is a great price but pinned rims scare me...willing to do sleeved...
 
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dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,288
4,635
Anyone know any good deals on 29" rims? I'm looking at e13 LG1 enduros for $55-odd and maybe some cheap DT Swiss 350s I found. Found some Bitex even cheaper...faster engagment and alleged high quality. Really, the availability of spares for both is via Internet so maybe the slightly-less-likely-to-be-found-under-their-own-name-or-at-the-LBS nature of the Bitex isn't a big deal.

For an aluminum rim, I think my holy grail for this bike would be DT Swiss XM481s, but I'm not paying $150 each. There are Spank 350s, allegedly in the 500g range per, for $70 shipped. I built a set of Spanks once and it was a pretty easy process...nice and stiff and true from the lace-up to the end, so heavily considering them as well.


Sticking to normal 2.3-2.5ish tires, but would like 30mm-ish width because Maxxis Wide Trail is the norm on 2.5s now. Not gonna explode if run on a 27mm but don't want lower than that.
I have run an inferno 27(in 26” of course) for the past 8 years on the rear of my mtb. Solid rim, eyelets, welded, not heavy, stickers pull off easy. Unsure if this meets your specs:
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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20,691
Sleazattle
Rode my Chromag for the first time since getting the RSD. Hate to say it but I prefer everything about the Chromag over the RSD except for the ride quality. The better damper in the Lyrik is so much better than the crappy Pike select. I just feel more comfortable on the bike and prefer the longer geometry. So looks like I probably will sell the RSD to fund a more Chromag like titanium frame.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
That Chromag Ti frame is a bit expenssssive.

Carver does custom ti(wanese?) for cheap and would probably be glad to clone your Chromag...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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Sleazattle
That Chromag Ti frame is a bit expenssssive.

Carver does custom ti(wanese?) for cheap and would probably be glad to clone your Chromag...
Yeah going to look at a few different options. I only see custom road options from Carver, from looking around before few custom shops were willing to build that aggressive of a frame. Kingdom is high on the list but my lack of patience doesn't like 3 month delivery times. Also I suspect that the price of titanium frames is going to skyrocket as about 25% of the world supply comes from Russia.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,332
2,875
The bunker at parliament
That Chromag Ti frame is a bit expenssssive.

Carver does custom ti(wanese?) for cheap and would probably be glad to clone your Chromag...
About half the price of that Ti Chromag is......

I have one and another large frame at the shop, they make my ti Honzo look "pedestrian".
Such beautiful works of art.
 
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MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
By the way, this thread led me to both a bike I didn't know existed and rims I wasn't aware of.

The Ridemonkey magic is still there. Thanks to everyone for input. And fingers crossed for May delivery of that Sirius...
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,400
843
By the way, this thread led me to both a bike I didn't know existed and rims I wasn't aware of.

The Ridemonkey magic is still there. Thanks to everyone for input. And fingers crossed for May delivery of that Sirius...
I hope you get it in May.

My ESD was originally scheduled for February-March, but it just got pushed to mid-June. Fingers crossed here too! :)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
I have been drooling over that Starling Roost but just realized that if I dropped my fork travel to 140mm and mulleted up some wheels my Chromag would have pretty much identical geometry. Actually slightly longer reach and a shorter chainstay which I would prefer anyway. May have to experiment.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
So I took another look at the Sirius sizing. The reach on the Long I ordered is 465 and the larger Longer size is 485, with a 632TT length.

My new Canfield is a 476 reach and a 632TT length as well, running with a 40mm stem. it fits better than any other bike I've ever ridden.

So I'd guess with a Sirius in Long I'd want a 50mm-55mm stem, and I'd actually be better off with a Longer and a 35mm stem, or even slightly shorter. (I run 31.8 bars and I think they make some sub-35mms for those, right?)

Sound right? I emailed Pipedream for their opinion and an inquiry on the frame size swap but I like you guys more so you get to stop working and opine now, too.

Edit: Westy, seat tube angle is 77 on the Sirius and 75.7 on the Canfield, which will further slacken during full-suspension sag, yeah? I know I'm not accounting for that effect since caring about seat tube angle is a fairly new thing for me...but on a HT sag is only in the front and thus actually steepens STA right? I mean I'm running a rigid or a very short-travel fork anyway, but that's the effect...however minor in my case
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
So I took another look at the Sirius sizing. The reach on the Long I ordered is 465 and the larger Longer size is 485, with a 632TT length.

My new Canfield is a 476 reach and a 632TT length as well, running with a 40mm stem. it fits better than any other bike I've ever ridden.

So I'd guess with a Sirius in Long I'd want a 50mm-55mm stem, and I'd actually be better off with a Longer and a 35mm stem, or even slightly shorter. (I run 31.8 bars and I think they make some sub-35mms for those, right?)

Sound right? I emailed Pipedream for their opinion and an inquiry on the frame size swap but I like you guys more so you get to stop working and opine now, too.

Edit: Westy, seat tube angle is 77 on the Sirius and 75.7 on the Canfield, which will further slacken during full-suspension sag, yeah? I know I'm not accounting for that effect since caring about seat tube angle is a fairly new thing for me...but on a HT sag is only in the front and thus actually steepens STA right? I mean I'm running a rigid or a very short-travel fork anyway, but that's the effect...however minor in my case

Yeah it will steepen a bit, a good rule of thumb is a little less than half a degree for every 10mm of sag.

Obviously the steep seat angle will make the bike feel a lot shorter when seated. At a little less than 5'11" I am just within the low end of the recommended sizing on my Chromag. With a 76 SA and a 487mm reach I went with a low rise bar and a few extra spacers under the 50mm stem so I didn't feel too stretched out in the saddle. The 487 reach feels perfect with the saddle down. I do have slightly longer than normal arms.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
If that reach works for you on the Chromag it's probably good for me on the Sirius, I'd think.

A 5'11" rider on MTBR says he's on the long/medium frame and likes it, but I have my doubts (obviously).
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
Worth noting that I am a reformed XC nerd so I am used to being stretched out and the terrain here is conducive to a longer bike. If I was back in VA it is possible that I would lean towards the smaller size.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
Yeah I can't believe what a barge the Canfield is, and how well it turns despite that. I always liked a roomy TT and am sold on the modern geo now...

On the bike rack, the new Balance is actually wider than the truck, which the 2015 model was not.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
Yeah I can't believe what a barge the Canfield is, and how well it turns despite that. I always liked a roomy TT and am sold on the modern geo now...

On the bike rack, the new Balance is actually wider than the truck, which the 2015 model was not.
I built a fork mount hitch rack because my bikes stuck out wider than my car now. Not only did that kill fuel mileage but there are some very narrow streets here and I was worried someone would clip my bike.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,729
1,792
chez moi
Thinking about it being a rigid/short travel machine...assuming both will fit and it's a matter of mere preference, which seems 99.9% the case...would shorter be better for easier front-end control, vice just plowing through stuff with slack angles and longer travel?


Also, just seen on their FB page, first shot of the purple I ordered...I thought it'd be more dark-eggplant...but I really like this.

1651252624380.jpeg
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,829
20,691
Sleazattle
Thinking about it being a rigid/short travel machine...assuming both will fit and it's a matter of mere preference, which seems 99.9% the case...would shorter be better for easier front-end control, vice just plowing through stuff with slack angles and longer travel?


Also, just seen on their FB page, first shot of the purple I ordered...I thought it'd be more dark-eggplant...but I really like this.

View attachment 175716
I don't think one is necessarily better than the other just requires different techniques. On the long/long bike I can consistently ride in a forward aggressive position, relying on the fork in the rough and steep stuff and to maintain front wheel traction in corners.

On the shorter/shorter bike I have to be a lot more active with my body position to maintain my COG in the right spot and it is easier to get that wrong.

The longer bike seems to beg me to do go faster and to do dumb shit, and it rewards me for it. The shorter bike requires a little more care and skill. Which is better? Don't know, this is why I have two seemingly similar hardtails with slightly different geometry. I will say I prefer the dropouts in the longest CS position on the RSD when I thought I would prefer them in the shortest setting, but that is only partially related to what you are asking.