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POTUS 2028

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,709
8,728
the fundamental issue for the next Presidential election cycle—assuming Trump is both still alive and his minions aren’t trying to pull some blatantly unconstitutional shit like the 3rd term Boebert already called for—is for how to combat the lure of a strongman with a simple message of “I can fix it”.

before you get up in arms and point out logically how he can’t and how his policies are counterproductive, don’t. that’s the whole point: that he’s wrong doesn’t matter.

it needs to be from someone with enough charisma and verbal sparring ability to shut Trump down face to face. it needs to be a simple message for a simple populace who have legit grievances but who don’t want to be lectured of how Democratic policies would help them in the long run. they want their grievances addressed now, regardless of whether that’s logical or feasible at all.

and it needs to not conflict with the underlying, stubborn streak of American individualism. even if some or many of these issues would truly be best addressed by government it can’t be sold that way else it’ll turn off all the temporarily embarrassed millionaires just waiting for their bootstraps to lift them up any day now.

it’s not an easy problem. but this is what we must solve, not filing away at the edges over whether Kamala’s campaign should have embraced this or that subgroup who weren’t going to show up anyway out of their own pique. we need to win the majority of people, and the majority of people are going to pull the lever for the party offering simple solutions unless we offer them a more attractive alternative on that same level.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
6,131
7,817
SADL
I’d be pretty damn surprised if Trump lasted for two years.
Mid term elections might answer that.

Let say after two years of sustained inflation due to imposed tarifs and add a few major hurricanes with defunded institutions. We might see some enlightening from the red side.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,709
8,728
we need some telegenic young person as a figurehead to hammer on one point like the rent is too damn high guy—maybe even that same point, with a message of universal upzoning to back it up. but also with enough balls/ovarian fortitude to take any Trump lackey to the mat for sound bites.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,709
8,728
@Toshi I think the fundamental problem with your question / thought experiment is that Americans (taken as the average across the entire political distribution) don't want what you and I do.
I think most everyone wants a reasonable cost of living to start with, including housing first and foremost but also healthcare. (And transportation, for which the biggest step is to divorce from the car and its sundry expenses! But that’s next.)

It’s just that telling them about policy totally fails when a large portion of them were googling who was running on Nov 4. Got to saturate the popular culture with a one line phrase that shows that we get it, and part of getting it is figuring out how to solve that on the back end. Which to me seems clearly like universal upzoning and universal healthcare (although something like the uncapped 10% tax that CO referendum people tried to fly won’t be palatable at all).
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,195
828
Lima, Peru, Peru
It’s just that telling them about policy totally fails when a large portion of them were googling who was running on Nov 4. Got to saturate the popular culture with a one line phrase that shows that we get it, and part of getting it is figuring out how to solve that on the back end.
Maga shouts /Thats socialism. End of argument.
I think it goes far deeper than that. Gotta energize the base and get them to vote first. Appeal to more basic instincts, like ethnocentrism and survival-mode harder than the GOP
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,195
828
Lima, Peru, Peru
The amusing(?) thing is when you point out the socialism that benefits THEM, they generally go:



And this, to me, is quite vexing. It's not that they won't acknowledge that it's socialism that benefits them, they simply shut down. :disgust:

When Trump won the first time, I found that unbelievable.

I read a few books on how that happened, and the most convincing imho (as in the ability to predict outcomes) came from scott adams (i know, but dont shoot the messenger).

He argued that identity came way before than actual factual needs, and Trump played to identity.

People would rather not eat than contradict whatever mental image they have on themselves.
GOP voters have proved again they would rather endure hardship than to contradict their self-concept of self-sufficient whites who dont need "socialism" to fix them.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,697
3,157
They’re socially backward ipad/covid kids who have been sucked into the orbit of online cunts. They don’t know what they are, they just do whatever tiktok tells them.
If this would be true, that means that the Dems do not know how to run a successful social media campaign.

Out of interest, I watched some conservative Youtubers and have to say that the problems they raise make sense to a stunning degree. The conclusions on how to solve them are going totally in the wrong direction though.
Ignoring the concerns of a not insignificant part of the population and not offering them answers will drive them into the hands of the wrong people that claim to take them serious and offer simple solutions to complex problems.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,195
828
Lima, Peru, Peru
I mean, they clearly don’t.
I think social networks are design to generate engagement by (among other things) making you angry.
I have noticed the content that resonates the most with my 10yo is surprisingly conservative, as in traditional male roles and the whole alpha ideology. It seems thats what sticks.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,195
828
Lima, Peru, Peru
Honestly, I can’t think of a single friend here in Perú that has any idea of the subtle differences between the two parties (present company excepted, @ALEXIS_DH )
In the grand scheme of things, both are right wing.
By french standards, I bet even the democrats are far right.

But there is no absolute reference point. Only matters the POV of the voters, those 80+ million voters Trump got now.

I dont think they didnt know any better and were duped into believing the democrats are too liberal. Thats part of the condescendence Trump voters vote against.
I believe they actually believe the democrats are too liberal.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,792
19,103
Riding the baggage carousel.
In the grand scheme of things, both are right wing.
By french standards, I bet even the democrats are far right.

But there is no absolute reference point. Only matters the POV of the voters, those 80+ million voters Trump got now.

I dont think they didnt know any better and were duped into believing the democrats are too liberal. Thats part of the condescendence Trump voters vote against.
I believe they actually believe the democrats are too liberal.
This is absolutely a correct assessment. This country has been fed so much Faux news, A.M. talk radio bullshit for so fucking long now that anyone to the left of Atillah the Hun gets painted as the reincarnation of Karl Marx. Anyone who still has all their teeth, a modicum of education and a touch of decency is an "out of touch elitist".
 

scrublover

Turbo Monkey
Sep 1, 2004
3,205
6,955
They’re socially backward ipad/covid kids who have been sucked into the orbit of online cunts. They don’t know what they are, they just do whatever tiktok tells them.
and have failed to learn empathy (or their parents skipped that) but picked up helthy doses of selfishness and self entitlement.

mrs. scrub sees it in many of the new students coming into her uni. they just don't seem to have any caring for anything but themselves.