POTUS Election '24...you heard it here first!
- Thread starter JohnE
- Start date
Supply and demand is a concept many Americans can grasp in general terms but can't understand in the real world where things aren't "all else equal." That makes it an easy tool to use, saying immigrants increase demand, so prices go up.
If someone uses a $1.3MM house as an example then they've missed the point or are trying to make one of their own. The real question is about the availability and cost of housing in the price range occupied by most of these immigrants. If the median monthly rental price in an area was $1,500 and it moves up to $1,700 then that's a real housing cost that impacts voters who can't absorb a $200 per month change. If a politician can point to the recent immigration as the driver then that voting base might be mobilized.
One of the great challenges of building new low-priced housing is that you have to do it at current prices of time and materials, with current regulations. The result will be an expensive product that ends up getting sold at a premium. As those houses hit the market, the rising price tide lifts the surrounding boats. This is a huge issue in LA. We see news articles about how low-income housing units cost more to build than some market rate condos sell for.
build enough and then you'll see people switch units... and then the now-empty older units can command a smaller rent because the demand is diminished. see Minneapolis or Austin trends.
That situation doesn’t motivate voters.
Edit- Also, when you get to that point the developers figure it out and stop building. They’re developers, but they’re generally smart enough to figure out that they can’t sell in areas where nobody is buying.
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They won't admit it because mango jeebus.
Builders dont build nornal size houses because mega-big/giant ones have greater profit margins. That and apartments brings in even more revenue/space. Real estate has gone up way past wages and this isnt a 4 or 8 year thing, its been going up stratospherically for decades and its a multi-faceted issue. Speculation, lack of space, increased population, etc. It’s way out of control, and its not because “immigrants”.
As pointed out before, we spend more for everything, but it doesnt go to the workers, it goes to the shareholders and top. And when things get slower, no one ever thinks that maybe they need to cut back on yacht, secondhome, or motorhome. Nope, squeeze that from those below you, so you don’t have to make any sacrifices.
Real estate needs be devalued, including Brains home. Thats the only thing thatll do it, but the rich property holders will never let that happen.
As pointed out before, we spend more for everything, but it doesnt go to the workers, it goes to the shareholders and top. And when things get slower, no one ever thinks that maybe they need to cut back on yacht, secondhome, or motorhome. Nope, squeeze that from those below you, so you don’t have to make any sacrifices.
Real estate needs be devalued, including Brains home. Thats the only thing thatll do it, but the rich property holders will never let that happen.
Guy’s,all I am reading is Bashing Trump and his buddy. Which is fine. However you are not talking about your side and its serious lack of shortcoming’s? As if all is well?
Why is that? Why is it I read nothing here negative about Harris? Why are you not talking about things that are not right with the Dems? As if you are looking down on them with your Head up High. You are not in the moment,you feel like you got it all figured out. To caught up to look at the whole picture and say what the fuck is going on?
Avy
Why is that? Why is it I read nothing here negative about Harris? Why are you not talking about things that are not right with the Dems? As if you are looking down on them with your Head up High. You are not in the moment,you feel like you got it all figured out. To caught up to look at the whole picture and say what the fuck is going on?
Avy
Avy, did you follow the news about Trump today (on a non -Fox news source?).
Its fucking insane.
Treason used to be punishable by death.
Its fucking insane.
Treason used to be punishable by death.
No Brother, I heard nothing. I did listen to ALOT of stuff,but did not hear. I was taking a break off of politics and listening to True Stories. I will check it out asap.
I understand and agree with this Trump madness. However,it goes both ways. I need you/us to talk about Dems problems. You all think(rightfully so) that Trump is a Terrible person for the USA. But you have no concerns of Harris?
I feel I am being led down a rabbit whole. There are Two Holes to choose from. Going to bed now.
Avy
Agreed. If I was buying a plot of land and building a house to sell, I’d imagine the cost step up from a moderate house and a luxury house isn’t as significant as the price step up, making the luxury house the more profitable option, and the one likely taken. This assumes a certain amount of restriction on the amount of luxury. Obviously a mansion on a sprawling estate is a different from a single family residence on a suburban grid.
Same goes for urban areas where developers are building apartments. Moderate step up in build costs gains you a significant step up in rents, thus little motivation to build low income housing, shy of government incentives like tax credits and payment assistance.
There’s a market for premium/luxury housing just above the reach of the average household income. It’s a bigger political risk to point fingers at that voting base (upper middle class and/or lower upper class) for the rising median cost of housing than it is to point at immigrants who can’t vote.
The same way they all admitted that they got taken for a ride by "Q"?
I must spend too much time in the woods. So what happened to “Q” ? Don’t hear much about it anymore.The same way they all admitted that they got taken for a ride by "Q"?
If I heard correctly, it might have been the guy who started 4-Chan, uber trolling half of the planet.
Returned to the thankless and endless task of helping Donald Trump save the children from Hillary's pizza basement and defending American Values abroad. Obviously.
I don’t have access to the article behind the paywall. Perhaps someone here does.
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www.washingtonpost.com
I'll take the bait. What has Harris done that is similarly appaling to trying to overturn an election where she lost? What race or religion has she banned from immigration to this country? Is her plan to fix the economy universally panned by economists as being objectively bad for the country?
I'm upset that we didn't get a fair primary to chose the next dem candidate (of course, neither did the MAGATs so GFY), I'm upset that she has continued TFG's policy of separating families at the border during the deportation process. I'm upset that we know so little about her...but I will ignore all of that because, if she loses, I know she won't encourage folks to overthrow the capitol. Her details on economic policy are a little vague, but she's not claiming a phantom group is eating people's animals with no evidence whatsoever. The two are so far apart on so much and it starts with normalcy and decency, and if you can get over that then there may be a severe problem.
This goes both ways, Avy. What are YOUR concerns about Harris? About the Democrats? You want us to talk about those problems, then talk about them. Not just saying that Harris "broke your heart" in California, but talk details. What did she do?
You've mentioned her ambiguous stance on the Israel/Hamas war, which is a valid concern. Personally, I don't think there'd be any difference in U.S. policy/involvement in the middle east, regardless of who's president. Whether Harris wins or Trump wins, the U.S. military-industrial complex is still gonna do what they gonna do. Don't get me wrong here, I don't mean to condone those actions—I think the U.S. is fucking up. I just don't think that's gonna change no matter who's in the White House, and I don't see a viable candidate that would enact any such change. Maybe (and it's a pretty big maybe) there's some subtle nuance between how a Democrat vs. a Republican president would influence U.S. relations in the Middle East, but I don't think Trump or Harris or Obama or even Johnny Carson (R.I.P.) would have the power to "make a call" and stop the conflict. So mostly for me, it's a non-issue because there's no clear path, no difference.
@Sandwich when you say that "we know so little about her" do you mean her platform? I'm currently reading through the New Way Forward for the Middle Class plan document and so far, it seems pretty damn reasonable.
Well, then, you haven't been paying attention. Trump said he would make a call and solve BOTH the Israeli/Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran conflict *and* the Ukraine/Russia "conflict."
PAY ATTENTION, SHEEPLE!
Right after infrastructure week.Well, then, you haven't been paying attention. Trump said he would make a call and solve BOTH the Israeli/Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran conflict *and* the Ukraine/Russia "conflict."
PAY ATTENTION, SHEEPLE!
That must make things uncomfortable around the Mar.
donnie's already got someone digging a trench next to ivanka
Well there is certainly no place for THAT in modern American politics.
GOOD DAY SIR!
Luckily, they have the Affordable Care Act to work with. We never really needed Obamacare what with the ACA being available.
CHECKMATE, LIBS!!
What's bonkers to me, even given that I understand that there are a not insignificant number of Americans who don't "follow politics" is how anyone at this point is "undecided".
Like, if you've been in a fucking coma for 30 years, and just woke up at 7 this morning, by 8 it should be pretty god damned clear that Donnie is a fascist, and in all likelihood, a traitor. What the fuck is there to even think about?
Yeah, pretty much this. I think there's usually some "courting" that happens during a primary where you get to know a candidate and they make their stance on issues clear. I think that was obfuscated this year because she was kind of forced on us (just like don trump, who raped several women!) and what she said 4 years ago is not necessarily reflective of her current stances. I'll take a look at that document, but I quite literally don't care when the options are evil and... not. I'm simply making the case that I can see an argument for a deeper understanding of her positions.
Also; I've hit my head a couple times but I do seem to recall that she ran in 2020 for President. She wasn't even in my top 5 then, but she's far and away my top pick in 2024.
I still remember a time when debates were held between two very competent individuals arguing nuanced foreign and domestic policies, not memeing as hard as they could while steering everything back to a single boogeyman they could blame. I remember when Mitt was ridiculed for "Binders full of women" and it's just so, so much worse now. How anyone could look at TFG and say "This man represents America's best" is just insane to me.
One of the greatest joys of thru hiking is that religion and politics are not discussed on trail. And combined with limited cell service and few spare hours to waste watching TV I got very little exposure to this shit show. I still try not to go too far down the rabbit hole since coming home because I know who I’m voting for. And like @Pesqueeb said, it shouldn’t take long to see what’s at stake.
This sounds like a Communism.
I can understand voting Trump because a voter is republican and Trump is the party’s candidate. I can understand voting Trump because a voter has bought into his personality and brand.
I can understand voting Harris because a voter is a democrat and Harris is the party’s candidate. I can understand voting Harris because a voter is repelled by Trump’s personality and brand. I can also see voting Harris for her brand on racial/cultural and gender reasons (which means I can also see voting against her for those same reasons).
What I can’t understand is what the undecided voter is trying to decide on. This is probably a rhetorical question that won’t get answered in this thread, but what are the pros and cons of each candidate that have them as closely balanced options, and what are the issues that would be deal makers/breakers?
I can understand voting Harris because a voter is a democrat and Harris is the party’s candidate. I can understand voting Harris because a voter is repelled by Trump’s personality and brand. I can also see voting Harris for her brand on racial/cultural and gender reasons (which means I can also see voting against her for those same reasons).
What I can’t understand is what the undecided voter is trying to decide on. This is probably a rhetorical question that won’t get answered in this thread, but what are the pros and cons of each candidate that have them as closely balanced options, and what are the issues that would be deal makers/breakers?