Power of Prayer
- Thread starter Changleen
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right, I don't see the relevance of your posts
Oh, and Chang...what if you are wrong? What if HE is who He says?
If all our posts are going to be like this what is the point of trying to communicate with each other? Is this a rant or a discussion? Do we enter discussions to learn or prove a point? Help me understand you.Changleen said:
E
enkidu
Guest
Yes, I love candles. They remind me of many pleasant meals and baths we had with candles and wine. Placing a candle in a lantern on a miniature boat and letting it go on a river at Toronagashi is another of my favorite candle experience. All through the process of lighting and letting go we talk to our relatives who passed away how we miss and love them. Even though we don't exactly know where the miniature boat washes away we feel confident that our thoughts and love are received with as much or more love of the diseased.Silver said:
If lighting a small votive candle can evoke all these loving memories, wishes, sense of connectedness to the past, present and future, I would say it's a brilliant tradition. Good healthy practice to step out of our busy noisy modern lives to spend a few minutes to light a votive candle and be suspended in peaceful quietness. . . even for some of us adults.
I'm assuming you are talking about god? When did he ever say anything to anyone? Has he ever talked to you? I see you have a 2000 year old book with 50 times translated stories which details events which seem highly improbable at best as your basis of proof of 'HIM'.Heath Sherratt said:
I have book here which is only on it's third reprint and contains details of several races of aliens and their interactions with people in the fifties. Isn't mine more likely to be correct?
I wasn't trying to be an ass, (I guess I should use more smilies - read my posts in a non agressive tone, that's normally how I mean them.) I assumed you understood my basic problem with religion: The legislation and actions of governments and armies based on the beliefs of groups of people which have no logical basis and whose results are harmful to both themselves and other people.Heath Sherratt said:
I respect your right to believe in some sort of god. What right do you have to impose the negative effects of your irrational belief structure on me and the rest of the world?
Is there anything else about my view you want me to explain or expand on? I'm not trying to hide my views on anything here. I seriously want you to understand me and my views too. Ask away. Can you tell me why you like christianity? What makes you believe?
It was explained to me a long time ago by my Christain grandfather that there are times that God wants the person more than we want them to stay. Far be it for me to dispute the Almighty.
Other times its just better if the person passes (i.e. Cancer, Alzheimers, Leukimia).
Other times its just better if the person passes (i.e. Cancer, Alzheimers, Leukimia).
E
enkidu
Guest
What a nice way to "give in" to the sad harsh reality of separation! Especially coming from your gentle grandfather, the thought itself was handed over to you with such delicate concerns for you.genpowell71 said:
That must be the most precious of the legacy one can receive from one's family.
I miss the man. I dont thinkt there's a day that goes by that I dont think about him. He was about the most honest, gentle, and caring man I ever knew. I remember when he's pray when mom dad and us kids would leave to go back home, he'd pray for 10 minutes just for my family. H knew the meaning of family.
Sure. I actually used to be VERY anti-christianity. I am very much a paul-ine experience in that regard. I used to intentionally persecute "stupid christians" they are just so blind and ignorant yadyada. Well, God showed up in my living room so believing in Him isn't an option anymore. Being submissive and obedient is. I can run from Him or ignore Him but I can't deny Him any longer. And as for your misunderstanding of the Bible...it is the most well documented piece of literature on the planet. There are more than 20,000 original manuscripts and in several translations. The odessey by Homer has 3 original documents. Every place and person in the bible has been historically correct and scientifically discovered. The city of David, the peoples named, yada yada. Ther is actually a novel written by a pagan (non-beliver) that has a wife who converted and he set out to disprove the resurrection of Christ. He is one of the worlds most well known and respected court investigators. He is now a Christian. Lee Stroebel I believe is his name. The case for Christ I think is the name of the book. Check it out.Changleen said:
Why?Heath Sherratt said:
Is it not enough to love your god?Care to share how God converted you?Heath Sherratt said:
Sure it is, but if you have kids you will know that the utmost way to love your parents is to obey them and respect them. To submit to their will and trust that they have the best in mind for you. Good parents give their kids the world, God only wants to do the same. Imagine, if we give good gifts imagine what His are like.BuddhaRoadkill said:Why?
Showing up is all it takes. I agree that He does not always make it so obvious but i was pretty blind.genpowell71 said:
and I told Him if He was really who he said He was then I would do EVERYTHING He asked and if He let me down I was Audi. It's been 8 Wonderful years.
Did anyone say anything about other religions being the wrong ones?
Nope didnt see anything about that. I would never trample on another religion just because I dont think that its right. Nice to know you still like to spew crap chang.
Nope didnt see anything about that. I would never trample on another religion just because I dont think that its right. Nice to know you still like to spew crap chang.
To be fair, it's pretty much implied when one starts making statements that the path to heaven means accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Counterpoint to that would be that Heath just mentioned accepting and submitted to "God," not Jesus specifically.genpowell71 said:
There are MANY though that would say accepting Jesus is necessary, but then also say you're "okay" (as in "going to heaven") as long as you believe in God. Those people don't think very hard about what they're saying.
Its all BS so what do you care? Right?Changleen said:
Actually Chang, Hell is the absence of God. Not neccessarilly a place like many think. If God is all that is good then hell is the absence of everything that is good. He only gives people what they ask for...if you don't want to be in His presence then He is not going to force you. Hell is just the name we have for that "place".Changleen said:
Not me, but I think it's pretty clear in the bible. Two or three options only once you die - Heaven, Hell and maybe purgatory if you're that way inclined. The only way to heaven is 'through him' right? So all non christians go to Hell, or maybe purgatory. Heath believes in the christian god, who apparantly hangs out in his living room. Maybe we could ask him for a little clarification on this point.genpowell71 said:
Well I happen to lean towards the philosophy of C.S. Lewis in that we will always have an opportunity to accept God and enter Heaven but the whole of hell cannot contain even the slightest bit of Heaven. When we accept God and enter heaven every point previous in our lives points to the greatness of heaven and why we are who we are and how we got there. If we never accept God for who he is and thereby reject heaven, every point in our live will reflect hell from the beginning. Does that make sense?Changleen said:
To elaborate from personal experience I could see nothing good in my life and everything reminded me of why my life sucked. After my encounter with Christ I could only see how things in life whether good or bad at the time influenced me to be the person I am now and giving me the atittude of gratitude instead of negative memories...I believe that because I live that. It's not religion, it's my life. It's not conforming to a certain way of living, it's being conformed by my experiences.
Why is it that you make the simple...seeing someone...complex. and things complex, simple?Changleen said:
Do you want details or are you mocking? You see, when God shows up in your life it's not too hard to discern. From my experience with you I have explained myself to death and realized that it is a matter of belief, not comprehension.
How about dollars? "if they would hear, then their hearts would be softened and they would be saved. For those who have ears..."H8R said:
Which is what it means to be a disciple...............Heath Sherratt said:
We must have a misunderstanding, did you read my post?Being conformed by the Spirit of God is the only way to truly change. Believing you can change yourself is just silliness in my experience. You can wan't to be good all you want but if you don't ask God for the strength and trust that He will finish the work he began you are just doing "works". becasue the change isnot internal...real...authentic...permanent.
I'm a Buddhist, I consider it a problem. There are various sects of Buddhisim just as with other religions. Some people would call Buddhism a philisophy, instead of a religion, because it doesn't generally recognize a higher power.DRB said:
When people start to identify with their religion and sect to the point of looking down on people of other religions and cultures, there's a problem. It doesn't matter what the religion is.
When a so called "Christian", usually a evangelical, tells me I'm going to hell because I don't believe in their brand of Christianity it's a problem. I actually had a couple of evangelical come up to me one ay to "gang convert" me, when I told them I was a buddhist, they said "Oh, so you belive in the bible right?"
I try to live my life in a constructive manner, considering my actions, helping those truely in need. I try to live the right way because it's right, not because I fear a omnipotent paternal figure spanking me. I believe every one has to come to their own realization, their own enlightment. If it's Christianity for you..fine, I have no problem with it. I Just like it when people shove it im my face, and try to use it "prove" they're superior to me.
When I hear churlish ignorant people call them selves "Christian" and tell me I'm going to hell, when the ONLY thing they've done is go to church, and they don't posses an ounce of charity or forgiveness.. I get anger inspite of myself. I believe Jesus said "spread the word" not "jam it down their throats".
When people start to identify with their religion and sect to the point of looking down on people of other religions and cultures, there's a problem. It doesn't matter what the religion is. Define "looking down".
When a so called "Christian", why "so called" usually a evangelical, tells me I'm going to hell (did you read the posts on this thread?)because I don't believe in their brand (brand?)of Christianity it's a problem. I actually had a couple of evangelical come up to me one ay to "gang convert" me, when I told them I was a buddhist, they said "Oh, so you belive in the bible right?"
I try to live my life in a constructive manner, considering my actions, helping those truely in need. I try to live the right way (right to who?)because it's right, not because I fear a omnipotent paternal figure spanking me (why would I fear the Father of light? the creator? He is love manifest). I believe every one has to come to their own realization, their own enlightment. (what if their version of enlightenment has to do with child sacrifice?) If it's Christianity for you..fine, I have no problem with it. I Just like it when people shove it im my face, and try to use it "prove" they're superior to me.
When I hear churlish ignorant people call them selves "Christian" and tell me I'm going to hell (you keep saying this but no one here has said that to you), when the ONLY thing they've done is go to church, and they don't posses an ounce of charity or forgiveness.. I get anger inspite of myself. I believe Jesus said "spread the word" not "jam it down their throats".(I guess you are just venting on Christians as a whole? I don't see how this fits in to this thread.)[/QUOTE]
When a so called "Christian", why "so called" usually a evangelical, tells me I'm going to hell (did you read the posts on this thread?)because I don't believe in their brand (brand?)of Christianity it's a problem. I actually had a couple of evangelical come up to me one ay to "gang convert" me, when I told them I was a buddhist, they said "Oh, so you belive in the bible right?"
I try to live my life in a constructive manner, considering my actions, helping those truely in need. I try to live the right way (right to who?)because it's right, not because I fear a omnipotent paternal figure spanking me (why would I fear the Father of light? the creator? He is love manifest). I believe every one has to come to their own realization, their own enlightment. (what if their version of enlightenment has to do with child sacrifice?) If it's Christianity for you..fine, I have no problem with it. I Just like it when people shove it im my face, and try to use it "prove" they're superior to me.
When I hear churlish ignorant people call them selves "Christian" and tell me I'm going to hell (you keep saying this but no one here has said that to you), when the ONLY thing they've done is go to church, and they don't posses an ounce of charity or forgiveness.. I get anger inspite of myself. I believe Jesus said "spread the word" not "jam it down their throats".(I guess you are just venting on Christians as a whole? I don't see how this fits in to this thread.)[/QUOTE]
Hey Heath, I guess you were addressing me.
Remember a disciple of a rabbi is someone whose whole life revolved around doing what their rabbi did, learning what their rabbi knew, so they could eventually become like their rabbi and in turn make more disciples .you know that whole Great Commission thing Matthew 28.
There is nothing wrong with works, without doing good things James says whats the point? [paraphrase] The point of being a Christian is not ensuring one has the correct doctrine lined up in their brain, it is living as a follower of The Way Jesus says in the Gospel of John that the world will know He is real by the love we have for one another and our unity, not that we are morally correct or doctrinally right.
The whole idea of repentance (tshuva in the Hebrew) indicates someone can decide to turn from their godless ways and return to how God originally created them to live remember the idea of repentance, salvation through faith, and grace are all Jewish in origin and nature, any deviation from that understanding IMO is a misuse of the Scriptures.
Most of them yes, if I have missed something my apologies.Heath Sherratt said:
It appears you are lifting what the Apostle Paul said out of context a bit. As disciples of Jesus, which is what Paul was referring to, one of the things we should be centering our lives around is learning what Jesus knew, doing what Jesus did, so we can become like Jesus (like not become Him) this is what Paul is referring to in its 1st century Judaic context.Heath Sherratt said:
Remember a disciple of a rabbi is someone whose whole life revolved around doing what their rabbi did, learning what their rabbi knew, so they could eventually become like their rabbi and in turn make more disciples .you know that whole Great Commission thing Matthew 28.
Pardon me if Im incorrect, but this sounds a bit Calvinistic, which I vehemently disagree with. Paul says in Romans 2 that pagans who dont have the Law (Torah) sometimes by their nature do what is required of the Torah. Sometimes people who dont know God, do good right and true things according to Paul. Now do those good, right and true things impute salvation (according to the Bible) on someone, nope. But that doesnt change the fact they are doing good.Heath Sherratt said:
There is nothing wrong with works, without doing good things James says whats the point? [paraphrase] The point of being a Christian is not ensuring one has the correct doctrine lined up in their brain, it is living as a follower of The Way Jesus says in the Gospel of John that the world will know He is real by the love we have for one another and our unity, not that we are morally correct or doctrinally right.
The whole idea of repentance (tshuva in the Hebrew) indicates someone can decide to turn from their godless ways and return to how God originally created them to live remember the idea of repentance, salvation through faith, and grace are all Jewish in origin and nature, any deviation from that understanding IMO is a misuse of the Scriptures.
This paints the life of faith as one of destination, rather than of a journey which is the dominate metaphor for the life of faith in the Scriptures.Heath Sherratt said:
Which interstingly enough Jesus never frames the Gospel in this kind of language. Also, I have a problem with the whole presentation of the Gospel in such a manner where a person could substitute "vacuum cleaner" for "Jesus" in the presentation - I'm not called to be a salesman, I'm called to be a disciple of Jesus and live my life as best I can like my rabbi and Messiah did.Reactor said:
I don't follow you. It seems like you misunderstood everything I wrote.
How can we slow this conversation down and understand each other?