[LordOpie]

I know couples that have decided not to vaccinate their kids because of the dangers and side effects of some vaccinations. This wasn't a religious decision, and was based on the science. My only issue is that they can "get away" with this because everyone else DOES vaccinate, so their kids have a low likelihood of exposure. That seemed selfish, but understandable.

I'd like to see the science behind such a decision as my extensive googling and talking to our Pediatrician has turned up absolutely nothing scientifically concrete on the extensive risk of vaccination that is being touted.

I'm seeing stuff in the range of 1:10,000 risk.

Also, you should tell the couples you know that EVERYONE with half a brain now knows about "herd immunity" and TOO MANY parents are choosing no vaccination based on HI... except that the herd is no longer immune.

The most famous recent story is a city in England in 2001 that had these concerns and stopped vaccinating... 70 children died of whooping cough.

Here in Colorado, it's estimated that 7% of children are unvaccinated... that's way too high.

Tell your friends they're making a mistake... and that's based on science.

 

[Ciaran]

I do agree that when people put others at risk we should restrict their actions. Such as a law that says that everyone must be vaccinated.

How many people need to be at risk before we make such laws? I don't know. I haven't thought about it that much. Personally I think that everyone should be vaccinated. In this day and age, not doing so is a bit selfish and socially irresponsible.

 

[Silver]

I know couples that have decided not to vaccinate their kids because of the dangers and side effects of some vaccinations. This wasn't a religious decision, and was based on the science. My only issue is that they can "get away" with this because everyone else DOES vaccinate, so their kids have a low likelihood of exposure. That seemed selfish, but understandable.

If only economists had a term for people like that...

 

[Silver]

The most famous recent story is a city in England in 2001 that had these concerns and stopped vaccinating... 70 children died of whooping cough.

Link?

 

[LordOpie]

Link?

Oh I don't remember how I found it, so I googled and found this instead...

Mary-Clayton Enderlein and her husband Christoph had been married almost 10 years and had a nine-year old son named Kyle when the couple found out they were going to welcome their second child into the world. At nine months pregnant, Mary-Clayton was exposed to pertussis, a highly contagious, long-lasting respiratory infection, from an unvaccinated playmate of her son.

Mary-Clayton gave birth to a healthy son named Colin; however, Colin quickly caught his mother’s case of pertussis, which is potentially life-threatening for infants.

One week later, Colin began having fits where he coughed uncontrollably for extended periods of time, gasping for air whenever he could. Additionally, Colin would cough so severely during the fits that his lips would turn blue and he would vomit.

Fortunately for the Enderleins, Colin recovered from the disease. However, even after he was discharged from the hospital, it took him several months to fully regain his strength. Additionally, he continued to cough throughout the first year of his life, and the disease left his immune system in a fragile state, causing him to develop several respiratory infections.

more stories of moms and infants

In addition to unvaccinated people possibly passing along such viruses, my inexpert research on the subject found that the largest percentage of kids with autism were of moms who were subjected to the Rubella virus while pregnant.

And no, i don't have a link to that either.

If anyone is interested, nothing I say can convince anyone that vaccinations are not only necessary for yourself and child, but not being vaccinated is a crime against society as you can pass it along to pregnant women and infants too young to get vaccinated... and you've just focked them for life. Good job.

So, do your own googling on the subject to educate yourself.

 

[DaveW]

So, do your own googling on the subject to educate yourself.

I suspect that there are a few monkeys here that are "self edumunkated" already.

 

[BMXman]

BMXMan knows our opinions, and I think, knows what the benefits of vaccinations are. I think that by not using them he is making a bad choice. But he is an adult human being and has a right to make his decisions just as I have a right to make mine. I can express my concerns to him, and try to educate him, but beyond that it is his choice.

thanks it's nice to see someone acting like an adult on theses boards instead of just flaming...D

 

[LordOpie]

thanks it's nice to see someone acting like an adult on theses boards instead of just flaming...D

I really hope you read post #45.


If you and yours don't get vaccinated, I pray that you stay away from children who have newbord siblings and pregnant mom's since you might carry something relatively dormant, but pass it along.

If you do and that pregnant mom gives birth to a newborn who gets what you've spread, well, you've murdered that child.

 

[SlapheadMofo]

What kind of meathead would be against vaccinations in this day and age? I'm obviously not religious, but Jesus F'ing Christ....

 

[BMXman]

I really hope you read post #45.


If you and yours don't get vaccinated, I pray that you stay away from children who have newbord siblings and pregnant mom's since you might carry something relatively dormant, but pass it along.

If you do and that pregnant mom gives birth to a newborn who gets what you've spread, well, you've murdered that child.

so dramatic...me and mine are doing just fine and are in great health as a matter of fact I would say in better health than most people... but thanks anyway...D

 

[Ciaran]

What kind of meathead would be against vaccinations in this day and age? I'm obviously not religious, but Jesus F'ing Christ....

Ask him. Or do a search. You'll find that it's not as simple is being a "meathead".

I may not agree with his decision but I respect that he did research and asked questions. So many of us (myself included) accept things, as good as they are, without asking if there is any negative effects.

Now that I myself am going to be a father I have started to so reasearch as well. I am beginning to see his point of view. I don't think not vaccinating is the answer but I am learning that there is, like any medical procedure, risk involved.

Personally I hope that BMXMan will find a middle ground and a way to vaccinate his kids while minimizing the risks to acceptable levels.

(What the hells wrong with me? I am posting in the PAWN forum and making sense without flaming.)

 

[LordOpie]

so dramatic...me and mine are doing just fine and are in great health as a matter of fact I would say in better health than most people... but thanks anyway...D

You're not taking this seriously.

The next time you read a story in your town about a newborn contracting one of these viruses before they're old enough to get vaccinated, please assume that you ruined that child's life.

It's no longer about assuming risk for yourself. Herd immunity is disappearing and newborns are suffering for it.

 

[BMXman]

Ask him. Or do a search. You'll find that it's not as simple is being a "meathead".

I may not agree with his decision but I respect that he did research and asked questions. So many of us (myself included) accept things, as good as they are, without asking if there is any negative effects.

Now that I myself am going to be a father I have started to so research as well. I am beginning to see his point of view. I don't think not vaccinating is the answer but I am learning that there is, like any medical procedure, risk involved.

Personally I hope that BMXMan will find a middle ground and a way to vaccinate his kids while minimizing the risks to acceptable levels.

(What the hells wrong with me? I am posting in the PAWN forum and making sense without flaming.)

same here...I'm always looking for new info on the subject that's not biased!...we're trying to get pregnant so I want to be able to make the best decision for all involved..D

 

[BMXman]

You're not taking this seriously.

The next time you read a story in your town about a newborn contracting one of these viruses before they're old enough to get vaccinated, please assume that you ruined that child's life.

It's no longer about assuming risk for yourself. Herd immunity is disappearing and newborns are suffering for it.

I take my families health very seriously...don't insult me!...and stop trying to change my mind...your view of the world and mine are different...lets just leave it at that...D

 

[SlapheadMofo]

I take my families health very seriously

What about other people's children's health?

 

[BMXman]

What about other people's children's health?

please this has been done to death...search!

 

[Silver]

I take my families health very seriously...don't insult me!...and stop trying to change my mind...your view of the world and mine are different...lets just leave it at that...D

You either don't understand how immunization works, or you don't take the health of other people's children very seriously. It's got nothing to do with your view of the world, or Opie's view of the world, or my view of the world.

Pick a box to check...you're either ignorant or selfish. You're not a principled member of the Rebel Virus Alliance fighting against the Evil Vaccine Empire.

I believe that was Opie's point, anyways...I may have dressed it up a little to make it more readable.

 

[$tinkle]

The next time you read a story in your town about a newborn contracting one of these viruses before they're old enough to get vaccinated, please assume that you ruined that child's life.

that's a bit over the top, wouldn't you say?

on the scale of death from MMR, etc., where does it fall in comparison to other deaths of young children, most notably, sids?

and even not up to death, but serious injury.

i don't know of any breakouts of tropical/exotic communicable diseases down the street at ft carson from returning gi's.

there's a not-so-thin line...

 

[LordOpie]

What about other people's children's health?

Exactly!

I really hope BMXman reads the link posted above and here again -- http://www.pkids.org/dis_pert_familystories.php

 

[BMXman]

ok I'll go get my whole family vaccinated now...there ya happy!...jeez if you guys would hassle law makers as much as you hassle me..then maybe there wouldn't be so many deaths from drunk driving or drug abuse

like I said we see the world differently...D

 

[$tinkle]

I really hope BMXman reads the link posted above and here again -- http://www.pkids.org/dis_pert_familystories.php

i keep forgetting: when is anecdotal evidence ok in a pissing contest?

i'm only kinda trolling

 

[LordOpie]

I believe that was Opie's point, anyways...I may have dressed it up a little to make it more readable.

You summarized better.

that's a bit over the top, wouldn't you say?

Absolutely. Trying to make a point.

Until I started researching this, I too thought it was a personal decision that affected only my family. But when I read about how pregnant mom's and newborns under 2 months have very limited options about protecting themselves, well, my view changed.

Not vaccinating is tantamount to regularly driving drunk.

 

[$tinkle]

Not vaccinating is tantamount to regularly driving drunk.

i'd rather have an experience drunk driver drive my family off a cliff than a n00b

 

[eaterofdog]

like I said we see the world differently

Your preferred method of "sticking it to the man" is ENDANGERING OTHER PEOPLE. Please justify the risk to others here so I can understand what the hell you are thinking.

 

[BMXman]

Your preferred method of "sticking it to the man" is ENDANGERING OTHER PEOPLE. Please justify the risk to others here so I can understand what the hell you are thinking.

I could give a flying fvk about sticking it to the man...don't assume...and as I have said before this has been already discussed to death as far as my beliefs are concerned...you want to know that bad then search...D

 

[LordOpie]

I could give a flying fvk about sticking it to the man...don't assume...and as I have said before this has been already discussed to death as far as my beliefs are concerned...you want to know that bad then search...D

I think we've all read your posts as it applies to you and your family. I think we respect your decision to go that route.

But I don't remember you offering an explanation as to what you'll do if Herd Immunity drops to ineffective levels? I'm probably wrong.

 

[BMXman]

Not vaccinating is tantamount to regularly driving drunk.

are you serious? There are nearly 120,000 drink driving related deaths per year in the US alone...how many deaths are linked to lack of vaccinations per year? about 45...D

 

[LordOpie]

are you serious?

Just trying to make a point

 

[eaterofdog]

are you serious? There are nearly 120,000 drink driving related deaths per year in the US alone...how many deaths are linked to lack of vaccinations per year? about 45...D

Not even close.

During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S. died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes, representing 39% of all traffic-related deaths (NHTSA 2006).

 

[BMXman]

Not even close.

During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S. died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes, representing 39% of all traffic-related deaths (NHTSA 2006).

I thought I went back and edited that number what happened?..oh well..but yeah you guys are worried about vaccinations when there is nearly 17,000 deaths from alcohol abuse?...get some priorities please!!!

 

[syadasti]

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089/en/index.html

Vaccination has greatly reduced the burden of infectious diseases. Only clean water, also considered to be a basic human right, performs better. Paradoxically, a vociferous antivaccine lobby thrives today in spite of the undeniable success of vaccination programmes against formerly fearsome diseases that are now rare in developed countries.

...

The benefits of vaccination extend beyond prevention of specific diseases in individuals. They enable a rich, multifaceted harvest for societies and nations. Vaccination makes good economic sense, and meets the need to care for the weakest members of societies. Reducing global child mortality by facilitating universal access to safe vaccines of proven efficacy is a moral obligation for the international community as it is a human right for every individual to have the opportunity to live a healthier and fuller life. Achievement of the Millennium Development Goal 4 (two-thirds reduction in 1990 under-5 child mortality by 2015) will be greatly advanced by, and unlikely to be achieved without, expanded and timely global access to key life-saving immunizations such as measles, Hib, rotavirus and pneumococcal vaccines.

We conclude that a comprehensive vaccination programme is a cornerstone of good public health and will reduce inequities and poverty.

About that clean water - from Kamen, finally something not useless.

 

[Silver]

I thought I went back and edited that number what happened?..oh well..but yeah you guys are worried about vaccinations when there is nearly 17,000 deaths from alcohol abuse?...get some priorities please!!!

Look over there! I know I'm ****ing a dead dog, but that guy is boning an elephant!

Is that the best argument you can come up with? You aren't really familiar with how epidemiology works, are you? Even a little?

 

[LordOpie]

Look over there! I know I'm ****ing a dead dog, but that guy is boning an elephant!

same exact tactic this PotUS uses!

 

[BMXman]

no special tactics..I just chose to concern myself with real issues that present a serious threat to my family and way of life...vaccination is not even on the list...D

 

[Ciaran]

Woah hey wait a minute...

If everyone else is vaccinated then how is BMXMans unvaccinated kids going to pass on disease? Aren't we vaccinated againt them?

Wouldn't he only infect the other unvaccinated?

:biggrin:

 

[syadasti]

If everyone else is vaccinated then how is BMXMans unvaccinated kids going to pass on disease? Aren't we vaccinated againt them?

Wouldn't he only infect the other unvaccinated?

The more people who aren't vaccinated, the greater chance for mutation to a form that vaccination is ineffective and then we are back to square one due to ignorance and selfishness.

 

[BMXman]

oh and thanks for the neg syadasti...I'll go vaccinate my family now...D

 

[LordOpie]

The more people who aren't vaccinated, the greater chance for mutation to a form that vaccination is ineffective and then we are back to square one due to ignorance and selfishness.

Hence:
-- common cold
-- HIV
-- Hep C

 

[Echo]

The more people who aren't vaccinated, the greater chance for mutation to a form that vaccination is ineffective and then we are back to square one due to ignorance and selfishness.

There are plenty of people who feel that harvesting living, breathing animals for food is ignorant and selfish. The fact that you are willing to call BMXman ignorant and selfish for his opinion on vaccinations, without even knowing him, says a lot more about you than it says about him.

 

[eaterofdog]

Well, hamburgers taste better than dead kids, at least the way I cook em.